[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by dre@ms

End of the day - are we saying the OP was not knowing on who is HVK and how the experience would be? Unable to draw a line between service/volunteer/business? Expected too much for 501? Made a mistake by following what was told by HVK?

His experience was bad and that is what he has communicated and we should respect it.

No one is disrespecting Jithin's experience. At the same time, to focus only on 1 case without considering the evidence in most other cases, is the very definition of selectivity bias. At the very least, it causes information overload for a simple reader.

As team BHP, we would be remiss if we don't synthesize the bigger picture but instead create multiple threads for each person's experience. Spare a thought for someone reading it - isn't it better for them to read all sides of the story to decide whether to use that service or not?

Plus you cannot compare an assembly line production with the idiosyncrasies of a human. I wish life was that simple but it is not - the behaviour makes no sense till you understand the psyche of the person in question.

That said, as I took pains to explain - I am not legitimizing his choice of words. I'm just saying, be forewarned with his idiosyncrasies and make the decision with full information. There is no other way to deal with people.

Edit: as Mayank said, I really think the terms and conditions need to be better worded. As I said in my last post:

Of course, I hope HVK learns the right lessons here - especially on rewriting the product description to "set the right expectations" at the very least.

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

That said, as I took pains to explain - I am not legitimizing his choice of words. I'm just saying, be forewarned with his idiosyncrasies and make the decision with full information. There is no other way to deal with people.

Since there may be a few people who may not be reading this thread or the FB forum, or be aware of the nature, it should be only fair that the idiosyncrasies be mentioned as being part of the plan. No?

[nndp87]

I was a Club 12 Member and have taken HVK's help numerous times.

Just before my Rajasthan Trip in March 2015, I messaged him my itinerary and within a day, it was approved. Regarding Hotels, he recommended me Hotels at the places where I had planned a night halts. I was also assured that if things didn't work out HVK-CHD Team will help for Spot Booking. I didn't face a single problem and trip was completed perfectly.

Than during the 2015 Ladakh season, there were few post on his forum which had all the negative feedback and I was suppose to drive through the Cliffhanger and Spiti Circuit in the same year. To clear my confusion, we approached him and met at his residence. I straightaway asked him about the negative feedback, he clearly mentioned, what went wrong, this set of people who were driving to Ladakh sought his help, en-route they didn't follow his instruction and than something went wrong and those people came back to him for help and that is where the problem started.

With my Cliffhanger / Spiti Drive, I was very clear in what I wanted, the most important thing in this drive was route plan and his valuable tips on driving part on those terrains.

Regarding accommodation, we had clear discussion how to go about it. I had clearly mentioned, I will message you if i need accommodation en-route, if you are able to provide than great, if you are not able to provide than also no worries. I will figure out on my own.

I was suppose to drive Mumbai to Jammu nonstop, somewhere around Hoshiarpur, we decided to stop at Pathankot. I messaged him about my decision to stay in Pathankot and also asked him about accommodation along with budget, within 10 minutes I got the way points to reach the Hotel. Same thing happened at Kishtwar and Amritsar. The other day, we missed a turn for Bafliaz from Rajouri, which meant I would not be able to drive on Mughal road the same day. Now getting accommodation in interior Kashmir was a task, which we managed on our own, because even if I would have messaged him, he couldn't have done much.

During the drive, he was continuously in touch with us over whats app and SMS. On numerous occasion, I forgot to update him the location and he was angry with me, I didn't get offended about it, since it was out of concern and care.

The point here is when you embark on such a journey, first you yourself do the detailed study on it, be clear on your plan (routes / night halts / etc, there is lot of information available on various online platform, including TeamBHP), because, only you are aware about capabilities of covering the distance, post that you can take his guidance about fine tuning of plan / accommodation with your conditions. Further be ready with backup options, if things don't work out with him.

Having said this, I feel sorry for arjithin. Things could have been handled in a much better way. Other members may not agree here because we are paying for it, no hard feelings, maybe my expectation level is quite low here.

[mallumowgli]

Guess HVK has to rework his business model to a referral model. Referral in the sense - 'Hey, you going on a trip? I'll refer a friend who can help you with planning and booking. But be aware, his responses depends on his moods. If you are ok with that you can buy his plan'

[SDP]

Originally Posted by mallumowgli

Guess HVK has to rework his business model to a referral model. Referral in the sense - 'Hey, you going on a trip? I'll refer a friend who can help you with planning and booking. But be aware, his responses depends on his moods. If you are ok with that you can buy his plan'

While some people got brilliant treatment, some others got curt (or even rude) responses. Do you really believe the reason is as simple as "his moods"?

I would suggest, please read through phamilyman's fantastic post on the previous page. Gives a lot of perspective about the 'why'.

[mallumowgli]

Originally Posted by SDP

While some people got brilliant treatment, some others got curt (or even rude) responses. Do you really believe the reason is as simple as "his moods"?

I would suggest, please read through phamilyman's fantastic post on the previous page. Gives a lot of perspective about the 'why'.

The below was what phamilyman quoted and I think that's also what I referred, albeit in a crude manner

That said, as I took pains to explain - I am not legitimizing his choice of words. I'm just saying, be forewarned with his idiosyncrasies and make the decision with full information. There is no other way to deal with people.

But I don't want to be a critic of someone who put in two good words in my travelogue long back. So...peace

[StarrySky]

I think the OP has done a good job with the review. He has divided his review into separate sections and has provided feedback for each aspect of his entire experience. Looking at it, the only aspects he has rated as bad/poor are the initial interaction and the store.

For the actual support during his trip, hotels bookings and offline routes, he has rated his experience as Good or Excellent. So I guess his experience in these aspects matches with that of the others.

Now, there is no doubt in my mind that the OP's experience in the initial phase was poor and the service provider was rude. I gather that there are many members here who have long-standing friendship with the service provider. Instead of taking this feedback to the man, they all seem to be advising the OP (and potentially other customers) to just put up with the rude behaviour as the man's knowledge is vast. Vast knowledge is a poor excuse for rude behaviour.

Originally Posted by SDP

While some people got brilliant treatment, some others got curt (or even rude) responses. Do you really believe the reason is as simple as "his moods"?

I would suggest, please read through phamilyman's fantastic post on the previous page. Gives a lot of perspective about the 'why'.

Sorry for quoting only this post among many others, but such posts border on classic "victim-blaming":

- I / many got brilliant treatment, others got rude treatment, so there must be something wrong those "others" have done.

OP's crimes include:

- OP contacted too early (2 months before travel): Is it a crime to start planning for a long trip early?
- OP asked for information without paying: If non-payment was the reason for lack of response, there are far more polite ways to let a potential customer know. Also, based on the screenshots posted, I don't see any change in the rude behaviour on the part of the service provider after paying.
- OP doesn't understand how this service works: Again, how does this in any way matter in how one person behaves with another?
- Service provider helps hundreds of people everyday, day and night: I can sympathize with a man who is overworked. However, based on many posts on this thread, the OP is not the first or only person who has had to put up with this treatment. If service provider is overworked to the point of bad behaviour, maybe he should look at recruiting someone to help or limit the requests he entertains. Snapping at people is not the way to go.

Originally Posted by phamilyman

I'm just saying, be forewarned with his idiosyncrasies and make the decision with full information. There is no other way to deal with people.

I think the best way to deal with people is to extend common courtesy, especially when you are running a paid service.

[highonwheelz]

No where else in the history of TeamBHP, have the users taken this kindly to bad service provided, and it definitely was BAD service. I doubt if we would have been so kind to put up with similar treatment from an auto manufacturer. It doesn't matter how cheap the service provided is, it doesn't matter how profitable it is. If the service was provided for a consideration, no matter how small, then they better be held accountable for it.

From what I read, it looks like members who have known the said service provider personally have been treated fairly. Maybe this is because of them being friends first and customers second? There have also been members posting "great experiences" of the same. If India's biggest car manufacturer had to talk about every happy experience that was provided, I doubt if the servers would hold up. But, the point is to bring to light the ONE customer who got the short end of the stick. That is exactly what this community does to collectively empower the end customer.

[KK_HakunaMatata]

I have not taken part in any discussion on this thread till date and I had a very confused view after reading the entire thing of members taking sides.

I just happened to read this post on FB and still I am dumbstruck and I now know what Value Add the connects can do and save our lives literally. Hats off

https://www.facebook.com/groups/hvku...5338469024565/

KK

[VivOverland]

Originally Posted by highonwheelz

What is the point of this guide to Ladakh?

Given my experience, I would confidently say that the "most up to date info on road conditions" can be obtained for free at the road side chai shop, or from someone travelling the the opposite way. And to get some help from someone on the road, just wait a couple of hours until someone comes passing by.

Well said. I just came across this service today while planning a Mumbai to Amritsar trip, and was considering it. As I explained the concept to my wife, she just asked me - what's the point? Why would you let someone else who doesn't know us, choose our hotel experiences? And the last thing we want is to be trapped by some arbitrary schedule which someone else deems to be 'optimum'.

My wife is a wise woman, and such an able sidekick

[am1m]

Originally Posted by ajmat

However, service customers are merciless. One needs to have a certain service oriented mindset that not everyone has. You need to think hard before venturing into such an area.

This, IMHO, is the main point to be considered here.

I'm seeing it happen first hand these days through a group of friends who are attempting to monetize their passion. Absolutely nothing wrong with turning your passion into a full or part-time job. But the point to understand is that once you turn something into a 'service' (and if you are accepting a payment, however nominal, it does become one), you attract a very different sort of audience.

As long as it's a community-based thing, (most) people understand that what is being offered is 'help', voluntary, and they have no expectations. Once they have paid, (and I agree that 951 is a ridiculously low price for the expertise that the person involved has), you open yourself to the same attitude (and hassles) that any commercial service provider in India experiences.

[sdp1975]

I availed of the CHD services for route planning and hotel booking for my recent Gujarat trip from Bangalore . I used the India-501 and Club-12 services , which are a variant of Ladakh 951.

My overall experience was excellent. This is how it went :

- Prepared an itinerary based on tbhp travelogues and other information available on the internet . Sent a mail to HVK on the route and itinerary. He replied in about 2 days with some recommendations on the itinerary. He added me to a whatsapp group for location tracking and hotel booking.

- We started on April 14 . He sent us route maps for the major stretches through the Rout-O application - these are static maps that need to followed by the users. We sent regular location updates through whatsapp and he used to make hotel bookings about 2 hours in advance . After hotel bookings were made , we got routes from the highway to reach the hotel . In most cities , this turned out to be very helpful for a first time visitor as the routes were chosen to avoid congested areas like the old areas of Ahmedabad. After check-in , we got recommendations on places to eat and shop - such as law garden in Ahmedabad , which again were really helpful.

- CHD now has a corporate tie up with Treebo hotels. This can sometimes mean good discounts , especially on higher end hotels. Eg the best discount I saw on the Treebo app was 3.3K in Ahmedabad but I paid 2.5K through the tie up. They currently have tie-ups with 1200+ hotels throughout the country. This is one of the best parts I like about CHD - their hotels are well chosen in terms of location and parking facilities - ideal for budget road travellers like me. And it provides the flexibility of not having to make advance bookings. They did not have tie ups in Somnath and Dwarka and I had to make my arrangements there , but they can usually provide recommendations where they don't have tieups.

- Replies on whatspp were instant. Also called him a few times to ask questions and finetune my itinerary , he promptly attended to my calls and provided replies that were helpful. I think he's been more prompt and attentive after changing his model a little - focus more on those who are paying . He has also stopped the annual meets and some other initiatives which I believe ran into losses and were a huge resource drain. His service fees have also gone up - Chalo Ladakh is 1501 now compared to the paltry 951 earlier. I believe the Club-12 membership fees have also gone up.

- Kept track of us till we reached home safe and sound. He took road updates from some of the stretches we took - this would be passed on to other travellers .

Overall , I'm very satisfied with the services provided , and the price point at which they were provided, and I wouldn't hesitate to use them again. I look mostly at the quality of services being rendered that were part of the plan , and that's what my review is based on.

For others, I would recommend using this service only after going through the feedback of multiple users , and depending on what's their expectations are.

[hserus]

I’m quite ok if HVK charges say 5000 for a Ladakh trip, it is minor compared to the hassles expected and the costs of such a trip. If the high cost means slightly fewer customers and more professional service then I’m all for it.

I might not avail his services for a trip to areas well covered by google maps and with tripadvisor etc for hotel and tourism recommendations, but if I were ever to go to hilly, jungle areas, Ladakh, North East etc it would make all kinds of sense to buy a service even if higher priced than 1500, which is less than half a tank of diesel as it is.

[VKumar]

I have been to Leh, Kunzum, Kishtawar etc a few times and the best part about every single visit of mine was lack of planning.

As Japs say "keep it simple"; I follow the same. No complex plans, no complex stuff, only some guys who have plenty of time (Desi type, whom you can ask to go out of way at any moment) and enough funds for the trip.

Circa 2009:
We 4 people left home in a Mitsubishi Pajero in Delhi with woolen clothes, shoes and a new set of tyres on the car (no chains, no ropes, no medicines, no tyre inflator - nothing, absolutely nothing; but a lot of food and water). All we knew was that we were going to Ladakh and have an army officer friend there. It worked for us (was the best Leh trip we had till date in fact), no strict timelines to be followed, no tight schedules - nothing. Just we and our car, we stopped where we wished to, we stayed as per our wish; and trust me guys - I have never in my life sought an advice before leaving for a trip, all we do is get the car right, keep the cash, have some contacts and leave.

[arjithin]

I guess nothing much has changed in 2.5 years for HVK !! bhpian gearhead_mait's similar experience @ https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/trave...ml#post4684438 (The grandest of all our road trips - Sherdil's journey from Kolkata to the Union Territory of Ladakh)