[DCEite]

Originally Posted by kanishka88

Slightly OT: I had a terrible road rage incident yesterday. I was overtaking a cab from the right hand side (legally right way) which pissed the cab driver (because we both were stuck in traffic for hours). He brought his car in front of mine with an intention to block and we bumped each other. If you are a North Indian, they will abuse you right left and center in Kannada and you can't do anything. I am happily relocating to Delhi this month end, atleast i can drive and ride my vehicles properly

Slightly OT, remindes me of my last few days in Bangalore.

I was travelling with my spouse during evening in our Xcent. There was a trffic Jam and an Auto Riskwhaw right in front me managed to move back a little (probably because of bad road or upward slope) and hit my Xcent's front bumper.

What happened after that left a very bad taste. He came running towards me and started abusing me in Kannada. Even though it was his auto that nudged backwards and hit my car !

Me, being a north India was a easy target for him. I tried to ignore him and even apologized to him and restarted my driving, for no fault of mine, but still he decided to chase me in his Riskshaw.

Finally after a few kilometers i spotted a traffic constable. I stopped my car near him and the Riskwhaw fellow was right behind me chasing. The constable asked me to pay him 100 Bucks otherwise i might be slapped with a police case (so much for being a north Indian !)

I paid 100 bucks to the riskshaw driver, and left the scene. This incident left a bad taste on me, on an otherwise memorable stay in Bangalore.

[megazoid]

One has to worry about things like air quality, commute, open spaces, safe water,and decent infrastructure. Most folks don't think they can do much about it and hence pull on. It is nice to see someone putting a price on these "frivolous" needs and taking a decision. Just trying to save oneself by reducing commute and sticking close to office etc won't really help matters in the long run. The trouble that results from such an existence starts showing up quite a while later. I personally think the city has crossed all norms of decent living.

[androdev]

I have to defend my beloved city Bangalore

I often read about this north-Indian targeted discrimination - I think it is just a rich vs poor conflict on the road. You will see invariably it's an auto/cab vs seemingly well to do car owner. It happens to local car owners also. I do agree there is always a bit of local vs non-local undercurrent but that's true in any Indian city. Another reason I believe the discrimination is a false perception because it is reported mostly in a road rage incident. In no other day-to-day transactions you will hear of such complaints.

Coming to the traffic issue, I wonder how many of you have really made efforts and thoughtful planning to avoid daily traffic. I can assure you Bangalore has the maximum number of companies that offer flexibility to employees to avoid traffic. It also has a very high number of good residential options and plenty of good schools in all corners of the city. Even if you put in a little bit of effort in making the right choices, you can save yourself a lot of traffic torture. I agree the traffic problem is severe but equally there is also plenty of choice in jobs, schooling, housing, etc. to fit your tolerance zone. Just compare notes with your own colleagues and I am sure you will find plenty of people who have cracked the traffic problem.

If you can avoid the crazy traffic hotspots, it is still a charming city with very welcoming people, a great weather and lovely places around to explore.

A typical day in Bangalore:

[Storm2.0]

Quality of life in Bangalore is pathetic in general. Though the city has gained fame for numerous pubs, cafe's, exotic eating joints apart from the IT industry but hey do we go to these places everyday? Does it improve our standard of living in our day to day life?
And as pointed out by other Bhpians majority of local Bangaloreans have some grudge against non kanadiga crowd and they leave no stone unturned to harass you. This I'm saying from experience. I've been living in this city since my birth (20 years to be precise).
I agree that no city is perfect and all have their share of problems. But be assured that Bangalore is an extremely over-hyped city and does not live up to it's "garden city" tag at all.
PS. I do not intend to portray any ill feelings on the basis of language,regionalism etc etc. These are my honest observations which I am sharing here.

[NiInJa]

It all depends on which phase of life you are in and whether you are fine with compromising on money aspect for other things.

I would travel 1 hour one way to office on bike before getting married, even bought a new car just so I could get to work in late night shifts to make (and blow) more money. But then marriage happened, I could no longer afford to spend so much time in commuting as family time and house chores took priority. Then, I have a kid now, every time I waste an hour in the car, I think of how I miss him or how I could spend some time with him constructively. I recently rejected a good offer only because they had strict office times and work-from-home policy was not favorable, plus the commute was at the other end of the city. Having said that, WFH is no boon too as sometimes we can be stuck to the laptop for entire day and we don't know when to stop.

So I would suggest talk to them about working hours' flexibility. If its a consulting kind of role, you can always plan your commute and working from home time. In our office, mostly people will work for about 5 hours in office and then connect from home by leaving early and avoiding rush hour traffic.

When I was single, I used to work in a office near Marathahalli junction, my home was about two 2.5 km from office in Brookefield but it used to take almost 40 minutes to reach sometimes, that was back in 2013, the situation has not changed yet. I still see that dark red line marked on the road on google maps as I type this.

So I got a bicycle and used to cycle to my then girl-friend's (now wife ) society (which was very close to office but there was a railway flyover before it which was not possible to climb in the heat on a cycle) and then spend the next 10 minutes starting her Honda Scooter and then go to office together. Yes, Bengaluru can have some serious traffic issues, so its better to plan your office hours and personal time, and have clear expectations from your office.

[abikr]

I now live in a 2nd-tier city over the last 10 months. I lived in a 2nd tier for the last 5 or so years earlier. The last I worked in Bangalore was in 2012.

I visit Bangalore (it being my home town, I cannot avoid it) once every 2 weeks or so. And I find that things are noticeably worse every 6 months!

It is not only the traffic you have to contend with. Let me list all the things I can think of:

1.) Of course, the famous traffic. Very few use the public transport. I see individuals sitting in their AC cars and taking up a lot of space on the road. And then blame the buses for occupying aggregate space, without realizing how space-inefficient their mode of transport is. When I say cars, I include Ola and Uber

2.) Good roads being dug up. For e.g. Most of the road from Hebbal to the Hennur flyover had a good surface but was dug up to lay a road which can withstand rains. I mean sooner or later, they (the old roads) would have worn down anyway, and this relaying work could have started at that time. Right now, traffic worth 2 lanes travel through one lane. Due to this, the service road has become another 1-way lane - thereby preventing the rightful use of the service road as a 2-way road.

3.) Dust from Metro construction. Self explanatory. I have sneezing and my wife has nose irritation from exposure to this dust.

4.) Hot afternoons. Even in so-called winter. here, Bangalore is no worse than Chennai.

5.) Lack of places to see. Apart from malls. Where again, you are inside walls - spoiling your body clock and denying yourself vitamin D. Of course there are many places to see, provided one has the balls to drive through traffic. For e.g. The travel to Mysore was once a relaxing exercise. It is now just another pedal-to-the-floor exercise if you want to save any time.

6.) Lack of a decent quality outside of the "residential areas" which some members here recommend. Yes, life in a walled housing society may be good. But why would you restrict yourself to that?

7.) Construction debris/dust dumped everywhere.

8.) Uncleaned ditches. Smelly ditch, smelllly ditch, it's not your fault !

9.) People use the service road as an extra lane. And scold if you try to use it the right way. I was once physically bullied by oncoming traffic when I tried to use my rightful way on a service road.


10.) The mentality that when you're on a service road, the traffic lights don't apply to you.


I drive 450km whenever I vist Bangalore and find that experience very delightful. But in the city - even for 3km - I beg my brother (who lives in Bangalore, poor guy) to drive us around, cos I am too used to driving in the town I now work in.

I can list more, but my colleagues are calling me for lunch. Maybe, I'll add to the list later. Excuse the typos, I have been given a sub-standard keyboard.

@Androdev, nice picture, the one you've posted.

I have to ask you, does this picture represent the average day you spend in Bangalore, or does it represent the average day of everyone in Bangalore?


If it's yours, then kudos for having a place this beautiful. But how many people have access to such a paradise? Also, I am sure you visit the rest of Bangalore from time to time. And the kids in the picture surely go to school. During such visits, does every inch of the stretch you travel look like the portrayal in your picture?



Based on what I see in Bangalore, I reckon what you have posted is more an exception than an example.

[EcoFox0718]

Originally Posted by androdev

I have to defend my beloved city Bangalore

Another reason I believe the discrimination is a false perception because it is reported mostly in a road rage incident. In no other day-to-day transactions you will hear of such complaints.

As a non-Kannadiga who lived in Bangalore for nine years, and in fact even married a Kanndiga girl, I feel I have had sufficient life experience to say that this statement is slightly inaccurate.

Moving from northern states into Bangalore around the time I did (2003) was a fairly big culture shock, and I felt that the local population did little to alleviate it. Road Rage is most commonly reported because it is a blatant and undeniable version of this problem, but back in 2003, I felt this undercurrent in many other aspects of life - traffic cops selectively stopping vehicles without Karnataka registrations, auto-drivers continuously trying to cheat you off the meter by feigning language difficulties, domestic helps overcharging or throwing disproportionate tantrums about the housework - even the fact that most of the Bus routes and public transportation related information was written only in Kannada, and the conductors or the bus drivers would either get frustrated when asked a question or refuse to help altogether. In my engineering college (not the best of them), the lab attendants tended to avoid giving instructions in anything but Kannada, putting the North Indians at a severe disadvantage, and there have been some instances when even our profs would make disparaging statements like "go back to where you came from", while scolding a North Indian student.

Now that I have said this though, I would like to get back to the core topic and give two disclaimers:

1. This is just an experiential evaluation which may not apply to everyone, and doesn't focus on ranking Bangalore vis-a-vis other cities. I don't even dream of denying that similar problems may not be faced by Indians in other cities, given our multicultural heritage

2. There is also no question that with the Startup boom, Bangalore has become wayyyy more cosmopolitan than it used to be back in 2003, especially in terms of civic amenities and public facilities - therefore linguistic bias is seriously not so problematic as to become a decisive consideration while evaluating a job option in Bangalore.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by abikr

Based on what I see in Bangalore, I reckon what you have posted is more an exception than an example.

Its not an exception - its a goddamn oddity!

I wouldn't be surprised if all these gated communities are attacked by the poorer sections of society ala "Dark knight" Joker style - these poor folks who live typically around these mansions typically built on cheap land (where else are you gonna get maids and drivers closeby). And most of these gated communities now have security garrisons that will probably put fort knox to shame! Millions of signatures and phone calls later you get to visit your friend.

Bangalore is still the best of the Metros to live in if you HAVE TO live in a metro - considering everything compared. But is it the best place in the country? You've got to be kidding yourself.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by abikr

I have to ask you, does this picture represent the average day you spend in Bangalore, or does it represent the average day of everyone in Bangalore?

Surely not my average day for sure! And I was born here and have lived here most of my life.

While it certainly is possible to work close to home, or work out of home, not everyone has that luxury. Ever since my company moved to the ORR, I've been consistently trying to switch jobs to something closer to home or near a Metro station. I've even said upfront that I'm willing to take a pay cut of up to 25% to make the shift. But still not happening. Most of the jobs in my field are in this ORR area. Perhaps eventually the health concerns will outweigh the easy money and I'll just leave it all behind. (And it is still relatively easy and good money compared to a lot of other professions.)

About the North Indian-Kannadiga thing, obviously the majority of Bangaloreans don't think like that. But for sure people involved in an accident or a road rage incident will attempt to take advantage of an 'outsider' (so called) status of the other party. I've had a few instances where the other party (locals) assumed I'm from somewhere else and have tried to act smart. They back down immediately when I respond aggressively in Kannada. Those of us who were raised here probably don't realize it, but there is certainly a growing prejudice and it is something we as Bangaloreans should not be proud of.

[androdev]

I was very reluctant to post that picture because of two reasons: 1. it is very personal and this is a public forum 2. it does give the impression that it's one of those expensive villa projects but it is not true.. i am a good photographer .

But I decided to post that picture to follow it up with the story behind it. I already mentioned I am in my 40s with good career baggage which is neither an oddity nor an extreme case in Bangalore. I "built" this house after staying for rent in a similar society for few years. It was a coincidence. I was looking for a rental apartment and the agent showed me a "Mantri" apartment which I was ready to sign the contract then he hesitantly asked me if I would be interested in a "house" in a society/gated layout for the same price. He said the approach road is bad and few other issues. I offered to visit and the rest is history. It was cheaper than an apartment to rent (including maintenance). I could not afford to buy a plot in that society so I searched for a similar layout at a much cheaper price and built my house by leaving lot of open space (I had to battle with the architect to save more open space and have less built up area). I have a large rain water harvesting sump which provides water for 60% of the time for the garden (and for some non-potable uses). My neighbours are many retired bank employees and other regular people and in fact there are just a couple of IT people in this society.

Interestingly I invited many of my colleagues/friends who were buying apartments with nearly equal budget to see my society but they all wanted only apartments in big builder projects near IT campuses, etc. Of course now this godforsaken place has become part of the city and there are all types of amenities near by and prices have also gone up very high. I can't buy one now. I never did this as an investment, in fact I am not good with money (some of you might know I splurged on an S Class when all my friends were buying their 2nd apartment). I could not even convince my closest relative to build a house, they bought a very high end apartment by a reputed builder.

It is possible that I could do it my way because I had a slight head start compared to the young professionals coming to the city. But Bangalore is not land locked, it is expanding in all directions and enterprising people are always making new layout projects and amenities are getting added very rapidly to these areas. The amazing thing is that schools are the first to get setup in an outskirts area. Back then I moved to my present location because of the school.

I will suggest a small exercise: look for no-big-name villas for rent and compare them apartment rents. you will be surprised to see 50L apartment and 2Cr villas might be asking for the same rent.

I know one friend who owns a nice farm near Kolar close to a railway station (not expensive mind you) and would go there by train almost every weekend. He thought through it incredibly well and it's a phenomenally successful and convenient lifestyle choice.

Yes when I step out of the layout I see the same Bangalore as everyone else but which other Indian city you guys have in mind when you diss Bangalore. The other cities I know intimately are Hyderabad and Chennai. Chennai weather is a big no for me. Hyderabad is weird: it has middle class hyderabad (pretty much all of hyderabad), then it has uber rich hyderabad (all those *hills) and then there is the concrete jungle IT hyderabad.

I can understand the negativity on this thread but it has be to relative to some other city right? I lived in many Indian cities and I could not wait to get out of Delhi and Mumbai. I don't know about Pune, never been there. So among the cities that offer livlihood to me, Bangalore would be my first by a huge margin followed by Hyderabad.

After the apartment projects, the next big scam to trap young professionals is the school. I struggled with schools and I even homeschooled my kids till they begged for school to have some friends. Does it make any sense to pick a DPS like school that is so massive and your kid is up at 6am to be back at 5pm - he/she doesn't learn a thing in those 11 hours that are wasted in the name of a 'good school'. During our homeschooling days I could just teach my kids for just 2 hours and it was so much more effective. I could also put them in sports programmes in near by clubs with near-individual coaching. The only reason I put them back in school was that they needed friends but I picked a school that is small and doesn't pretend to be shaping leaders of the future.

My point is take a step back and look at the options with an open mind. It is the Matrix

[Nav-i-gator]

Originally Posted by androdev

Y
I can understand the negativity on this thread but it has be to relative to some other city right? I lived in many Indian cities and I could not wait to get out of Delhi and Mumbai. I don't know about Pune, never been there. So among the cities that offer livlihood to me, Bangalore would be my first by a huge margin followed by Hyderabad.

Traffic aside, Bangalore is still a good city to live (as you said) as compared to other cities with "good employment opportunities" (for non-IT/non-sales people, it basically means Gurgaon, Bangalore or Mumbai, that's it).

I have visited other cities like Pune, Chennai and Hyderabad too - I would rate Pune as good too.

Based on the extent of compromises to make, my list would be :

1. Mumbai - the best compromise. Still the most cosmopolitan city and given the limitations of geography, traffic is not THAT bad (like Bangalore).

2. Pune - Young crowd, decent weather, decent roads, good schools/colleges, what else one need?

3. Bangalore - Pips out Gurgaon only due to weather. An otherwise excellent city slowly going down the traffic drain, with not much hope of revival. Compared to that, Mysore is still a heaven.

4. Gurgaon (not Delhi/NOIDA) - I have been living here for the past 5 years (liven in Delhi before, for 3 years and Noida for 2 years). First time I came to Gurgaon, I saw Pigs running on streets! So much for the millennium city, I thought. But the progress on public infrastructure that I have seen in past 5 years, make me very optimistic. Only worry (and a big big one) is the Air quality. Thankfully, this year so far has been far less polluted (lesser than Mumbai on PM2.5 on many days).

Aside to this, as a driving enthusiast who like to be behind the wheels, there is no place better than Gurgaon (in fact, full NCR) among metros (kerala is at another level, incomparably good). Open, w-i-d-e roads if you start driving at odd times, short distance from a lot of hill stations, wild life sanctuaries, there is a lot going for it. Handled carefully, Gurgaon has the best potential among the metros to keep getting better as it grows bigger.

As to Chennai, it's too hot, too humid. Only good thing? It's close to Kerala (get in the car and drive down on weekends)

[opendro]

6) Ride bicycle to work.

There are many nice residential places in Bangalore and you can always find one of them within 5 km of your workplace no matter how terrible your workplace is. Even assuming that all means of commute has disappointed you, walking will still take less than an hour.

Problem is with people who believe that driving car is their birth right. I know it is illegal. But as a responsible citizen of the country, I know how much land we have for car's road/parking/etc around schools, malls, cinemas, offices, parks, playground and many public places. It is just unreasonable. Ask yourself, which place in India can accommodate more than 30% of the commuters coming in cars? Basically, we are the problem. Period.

Theoretically, motorcycles are the most efficient means, even better than buses in terms of road usage efficiency unless the bus is transporting a bulk of people between only two points. A motorcycle can carry two adults or one adult with two medium sized kids. Bikes can park close to each other (no need for space to open doors like cars), they can navigate through tight spots by leaning, pushing back, or mitigate through gestures. In fact, me being on bicycle or motorcycle is useful to many car users too as I often sort out jams in uncontrolled junctions (we have no right of way). I can yell, show hands to people, gesture, so on.

Anyways, I'm trying to say that it is not just a Bangalore thing. Any city in India is going to meet the same fate because we are a populous country.

Originally Posted by Miyata

Granted that traffic woes are too much of a pain and unnecessary hassle that we at times have to deal with. Still, I am not sure it could be a reason to not take up opportunities.

As other have already pointed out, quite a few solutions to the problem -

1) Living close to the workplace - Could be expensive but not unmanageable.

2) Flexible timings that allows you to commute back and forth at off-peak hours - Many companies are now offering this on their own without even having to bargain for it!

3a) Work from home options - About 2/3 days a week. Again, many are offering this without a need to bargain.

3b) Daycare/Creche facility of the office premises: All points above will be much more enticing if you do need a creche/daycare facility located on the office premises.

4) Commute in two wheeler - Allows you to explore new paths, new places and routes! I once discovered a very good Gujarati snacks place just because of this - I possibly would not have known the joy of a good rotla and khakhra without this.

5) Use the office transportation (bus/cab) - Allows enough space and elbow room to work as you move!

[narayans80]

My 2 cents:

1. If you live in an own house in Madras, and have lived all your life here, have your close family here. Then even if you are given an offer in commute heaven, you would be looking to move back.
2. If you have school going kids, especially ones who are in higher grades of primary, secondary and such like. Then they dictate your move, not you. And sorry, commuting every weekend isn't going to work on the long run.
3. If your better half works, you got to consider that as well. Other half has to search for work, location they get to work would decide where you want to live.

Barring these 3 factors I can't seem to think of any critical non-financial factors (assuming you factored that out) if you want to move to an another city.

In the 3 years I worked in Bangalore, I lived 1.5 km away from office and used to walk to office everyday, including going home for lunch. It was 3 km in the last one year of the stay. So my Bangalore traffic experiences (even when I had a bike) were not bad. There were only 2 occasions I can remember: We had to run from Hudson Circle to SBC to catch Bangalore Mail in 20 min after a grid lock post rains. Another instance, Jayadeva underpass was flooded due to rains, which was some 45 min gridlock.

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by androdev

My point is take a step back and look at the options with an open mind. It is the Matrix

Oh boy, am I see-sawing on this one. A couple of pages ago on this thread, I virtually took an oath that I would not move to Bangalore.

But here I am, entertaining recruiters' calls - I took one just an hour ago. It is a really good role that I'm interviewing for. All these plum possibilities come only from Bangalore. It is just a possibility at this point, but I would feel terrible later if I keep letting go of these chances. So I'm going to take it (even if it makes me a hypocrite).

[JediKnight]

Originally Posted by androdev

I have to defend my beloved city Bangalore

What an incredibly misleading photograph. At least change the caption of the photograph to "my typical day" in Bangalore. You may be the 0.001% privileged guys in the city who live in an elite gated community 5 minutes from your place place of work. But that is not the typical day in Bangalore for most of the common blokes. Poor souls who cannot get enough exercise since that time gets consumed in the office commute. There is a creche near my office and i see kids stuck there till 7-8 PM at night sometimes, since their parents could not come to pick them due to traffic jam on the outer ring road.