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Old 10th November 2020, 15:24   #46
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Re: Lost a close friend in a freak accident – How did it happen?

Heartfelt condolences to the family.

This is really an eye-opener for me because I have been trying all types of circus (for pressing the clutch) in starting the car from outside for keeping the battery charged during the lockdown period and also during cleaning. But I always put handbrake ON while parking my car and it's a sort of reflex action for me.

The above practice of putting handbrake ON when about to park has saved me from that jerk during accidental clutch+brake release in gear just after stopping the car.

As many experts have pointed out, this might have been caused due to the slope,starting torque coupled with high RPM, new battery and most importantly the jerk caused by starting the vehicle in reverse gear.

Very unfortunate and unlucky that the vehicle didn't stall in time to save that precious life !
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Old 10th November 2020, 15:51   #47
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Re: Lost a close friend in a freak accident – How did it happen?

Cars can start moving if started in gear even without clutch input. This reminds of an incident:

My uncle's first gen safari was parked in the courtyard of their home. It was pretty old and not in a very good conditions (electricals were bad). Due to a short circuit it started on its own and started moving. It moved a pretty good distance at low speed (almost stalling speeds) before colliding with a wall and stalling.

I feel in your friend's case she started the car while it was in gear. Modern cars have a mechanism when the rpm of the car is higher in the initial few minutes to increase the engine temperature quickly. Maybe that's why it didn't stall and started moving. This is the only logical explanation that I could put together.

Whatever was the reason, the incident was very very unfortunate.
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Old 10th November 2020, 15:57   #48
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Re: Lost a close friend in a freak accident – How did it happen?

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Originally Posted by n_ramesh99 View Post
I lost a close friend of mine, a smart and wonderful human being, in a freak accident. Thinking about it, we just can’t understand how it could happen in the first place. This post is to request your views on what could have happened.
It's sad that she had to lose her life in such a manner. RIP. Saw the video several times but cannot get a clue as to what had might happened. As the video is not from the beginning (when she approached the car), I guess she might have lowered the hand-brake and while switching on the ignition while standing outside with the door opened, the car had started rolling back.

I had read in another forum somewhere last month that she always resented the tree and wanted it removed !
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Old 10th November 2020, 16:34   #49
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Re: Lost a close friend in a freak accident – How did it happen?

I remember shaking my head in sadness at this meaningless loss of life when I first watched the video after it happened. So sorry for your loss, OP.

An automobile weighs over a ton and people tend to forget how potent a force of destruction it can be. This incident is a grim reminder.

I remember starting my car in gear on occasion and the magnitude of the jerk came as a bit of a shock. Earlier I used to keep the door open when starting the engine sometimes but these days I ensure I am buckled up, door closed and gear in neutral before cranking up. It's just not worth the risk to life and property.
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Old 10th November 2020, 17:15   #50
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Re: Lost a close friend in a freak accident – How did it happen?

Tragic loss of life. May her soul rest in peace and may God give her family the strength to cope with the sudden and unexpected loss of a loved one.

I have once used this jerking motion to get out of a difficult situation. I once had to borrow a friend's Gypsy to drop my cousin sister at her college. The fuel tank was almost empty when we started. The drive was short, but when I was returning the car ran out of fuel on a busy road. Thankfully, I was on the extreme left side of the road and not in the middle! It was already dark and there was pretty heavy traffic. I knew that just a little distance ahead, there was a small street on the left side, off the main road, which goes downhill. I tried to start the car without pressing the clutch, hoping the jerk would be strong enough to push me a little distance forward. Had to try it a couple of times before I could turn off the main road, go downhill and park properly.
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Old 10th November 2020, 17:36   #51
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Re: Lost a close friend in a freak accident – How did it happen?

Sorry for your loss. Its especially tragic because of how sudden & unexpected this is.

As to how, I think its reasonably straight forward. Firstly, the car was cranked in reverse gear, this is clear. Second, as someone already pointed out, an absolutely empty car is way more agile & less likely to stall. Third, it looks like she was so stunned that she did not let go of the key. I am assuming this has a normal key-starter (one with a start button simply would not crank unless clutch is depressed ).

If you crank the car long enough in a low enough gear, it would almost certainly spring to life & drive away.

Again, im terribly sorry for your loss.
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Old 10th November 2020, 19:25   #52
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Re: Lost a close friend in a freak accident – How did it happen?

Very tragic incident indeed. My heart felt condolences to the family.

The lead acid battery has very high power density and low energy density. A properly charged battery can delivery very large amount of current for a short duration of time. Several killowatts of power is very easily achievable. This coupled with torque multiplication of the first or the reverse gear can easily move a vehicle with great force. I think that is what happened here.
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Old 10th November 2020, 21:44   #53
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Re: Lost a close friend in a freak accident – How did it happen?

Very unfortunate accident. My condolences. I remember reading this news and discussing it with my father.
My father immediately recalled an incident with our 118NE back in the days. We have a tight parking space and a staircase starts from one end of the garage. My sister cranked the car which was in first gear. Car leaped out of its spot and hit the staircase railing, covering about 5-6 feet of distance in a blink.
The car was a rust bucket anyway. That impact not only bent the front bumper, but also broke rotten bumper mounting points needing an underbody welding job.
In my opinion, its possible to generate enough (read deadly) force if in the gear and engine is cranked without clutch. Please always keep the car parked with hand brake.
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Old 10th November 2020, 21:48   #54
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Re: Lost a close friend in a freak accident – How did it happen?

Firstly, sorry for your loss!
The exact thing has happened to my grandfather, albeit, he was inside the car. It was a 1st-gen Swift. He left the door open, and decided to start the car to check on a problem with the audio system. There was a pillar just behind the open door, and the car was in reverse gear. As he turned ON the car, without realising the gear position, the car started moving backwards without any throttle input. He didn't get the time to apply brakes too.

End result- Front Driver side door, ORVM, and everything related had to be replaced and painted.

This is why I love the feature in the newer cars, where one has to disengage the clutch to start the vehicle. That ensures that the driver is inside the vehicle.
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Old 13th November 2020, 12:32   #55
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Re: Lost a close friend in a freak accident – How did it happen?

So sorry to see this. May the departed soul Rest in Peace.

The vehicle since it had a new battery had ample power to crank at full speed in spite of being in reverse gear and having to lug the weight of itself. Even though she may have let go of the key in the jerk the engine already started and since it was cold the ECU revved it up. That would be enough to keep moving with the force that we see here. Really unfortunate that the tree was there.

This would not have happened if they had implemented the safety switch linked to the clutch that we see in push button start cars. It should be standard in all cars push button or not. If the automatics can have this system linked to the brake pedal why can't the all the manuals have it linked to the clutch or brake?

That being said there would be some kind of overrides to the interlock where we can start the car without pressing the pedal. My Hyundai has the push button start which requires to push the clutch in to start the engine. But I can still start the engine without pushing in the clutch if the start button is kept pressed for 10 seconds. If used incorrectly it may end up as we see in the video here.
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Old 14th November 2020, 00:33   #56
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Re: Lost a close friend in a freak accident – How did it happen?

So sad to hear this. This reminds me the importance of mandatory clutch engagement for ignition, which is already available in some cars.

Last edited by sreejithkk : 14th November 2020 at 00:47. Reason: Posted in wrong thread
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Old 14th November 2020, 01:30   #57
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Re: Lost a close friend in a freak accident – How did it happen?

Very sad to read about this incident. This unfortunate incident reminds me of my own one such near death experience few years back with my Honda City (again, VMT, 2015 Model) at 3M Car Care, Koramangala. I was lucky enough to escape without any injuries.

I haven't shared this incident on TeamBHP earlier though. It happened on 28Feb2017. I have dropped my car at 3M Car Care, Koramangala for car wash and interior cleaning. The guys at 3M completed the job and parked my car outside on the SLOPE with first gear engaged. Hand brake not engaged.

But, whenever I park my car, I always used to engage hand brake. I never park my car with gear engaged. I have had the habit of starting the car by standing outside the car to let engine warmup a bit and let the warm air out for about 30 seconds.

So that day, I came to 3M to pick up the car around 5 PM. I paid them and got the keys. Opened the front door of the car and as usual I inserted the key and cranked the car without realizing the car is on first gear. There was a small jerk and suddenly car started moving down the main road. I panicked and tried to enter the car by running along and apply the brake. But the car already crossed the main road half way and hit the concrete median and stopped. The front of the car is totally damaged by the impact. Surprisingly, the car's ignition was still ON with first gear engaged.

Luckily, no vehicles movement on that road at that time due to traffic signal nearby. Honda body shop took 3 weeks to repair it and the bill was about 80k. Royal Sundaram took care of the costs though with zero dep insurance.

This was life threatening incident and still sends chills down the spine thinking what could've happened that day. Car supposed to give a jerk and stop when ignited with gear engaged and clutch not pressed. Learnt a lesson that one should never start the car standing outside irrespective of handbrake/gear engaged or not.
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Old 14th November 2020, 08:47   #58
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Re: Lost a close friend in a freak accident – How did it happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by samy1117 View Post
This was life threatening incident and still sends chills down the spine thinking what could've happened that day. Car supposed to give a jerk and stop when ignited with gear engaged and clutch not pressed. Learnt a lesson that one should never start the car standing outside irrespective of handbrake/gear engaged or not.
Best practices before starting a car (ideally) -

# ALL doors closed
# Clutch pressed
# Gear in neutral (double precaution)
# Handbrake up (triple precaution)

In case a hurried or careless start is being done to prevent battery drain, its better to let the battery drain 2 times over, a shop recharge will cost about Rs.300 and a new battery between Rs.4k-Rs.6k for affordable cars, a hospital visit will cost over 100 times that in the long run and a loss of life will completely destroy the survivors. Sometimes with electronics and lifeless metal boxes, you've to say to heck with it.
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Old 14th November 2020, 09:29   #59
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Re: Lost a close friend in a freak accident – How did it happen?

My condolences.
This wouldn't have happened like this if it was a car from some of the other brands - the ones those refuse to even crank if clutch pedal is not pressed, or if the gear is in D or R (AT). I will put some part of the blame on Honda for not thinking about such types of safety checks in place.
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Old 14th November 2020, 11:35   #60
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Re: Lost a close friend in a freak accident – How did it happen?

To avoid all this, the Kia Optimus that I used in the UK would never start or the handbrake would not release, unless, I had the seat belt on and door closed. It was really irritating when I wanted to shift the car a few inches.
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