[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by bhansali_hardik

I’m sure the whole problem is much more deeper rooted than you think, in Bangalore on one of the busiest street (Brigade Road) there’s reserved parking for women! Me and my wife find it funny, it’s almost like the government treats women like it’s a disability.
t

I am pretty sure that “parking for women” is primarily a safety concern. Many women the world over feel unsafe in parking garages. Or having to walk great distances between parking and their place of work or the mall.

So all over the world you will find parking reserved for women. In some countries it is even mandatory by law to allocate a certain percentage of parking space in parking garage for woman.

So typically the women reserved spots will be near the entrance, ticket machines, well lit, video surveillance etc.

Originally Posted by bhansali_hardik

it’s almost like the government treats women like it’s a disability.

I don’t think it is a sign of the government treating women like they have a disability. It’s a sign of men harassing women. (and worse unfortunately)

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/61323275.cms

[dragracer567]

Thank you for this thread, to be fair I never bought the idea that car culture is meant only for men. Its just that many car clubs and forums have too much of a boy culture which makes them unwelcoming for women. A lot of this gender bias starts from a very young age where boys are more likely to be given car toys to play with!

A significant proportion of women in my life including my cousins, ones I’ve gone out with and my close friends have been car enthusiasts (the proportion is more or less similar to the men I know). Infact, a close friend of mine constantly makes fun of me since I don’t like manuals while she does Might I add, there is a difference in how men and women drive in that I’ve found women to be better drivers on the road generally, especially among young people (this has been statistically proven as well). Infact in the UK and EU, women get lower insurance premiums since they are involved in less incidents.

Originally Posted by Mountainman21

I believe, there are certain things every person should do/ experience in life:

5) Be in a fight (losing or winning does not matter)

Disagree with point 5, avoid fights regardless of your gender!

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

No. We must strive for equality of opportunity not feminism.

Feminism is a socio-political movement, an ideology and has an agenda that is more in line with many other popular 'isms'.

Not ideal to discuss on a car forum perhaps.

Wrong! Feminism is neither an ideology nor an agenda. If you believe that men and women are equal, congrats you are a feminist. The world needs feminism since nothing less than a powerful movement can bring about equality which has been denied to women since forever.

[Neversaygbye]

Originally Posted by DogNDamsel12

So, I thought of penning down some of my rumination on how to prevent discrimination or drive women away and rather create a more inclusive community.

Welcome to the community. Timely post and I agree with all your points. Adding my two bits to the discussion:

Despite sometimes being the better driver, the discrimination that women face do put many of them off driving, unfortunately. I have a husband and wife couple among my friends where the guy is the second worst driver I know (the worst is also a guy, btw) but loves to drive and the gal is a fantastic driver who hates to drive. Simply because she hates the bullying she gets on the road. She will drive only when she is the only driver in the group, and this typically means that hitching a ride in their car when her husband is around means signing up for one nerve wracking and hair raising experience because HE would be driving. She is not the only one - I have seen this with my other female friends as well. Despite being extremely competent drivers, they will promptly hand over the steering wheel to the male driver in the group (even when there are other women drivers around), irrespective of how good or bad a driver he is. I think this mindset also needs to change - in fact I refuse to take the wheel nowadays when offered. But true change will only come when women themselves start believing in their own ability and stop conceding space to bullies.

[Storm2.0]

Thank you ma'am for introducing yourself through this wonderful perspective of yours. I truly appreciate this breeze of fresh air in this very forum.

I feel that the only way to deal with inequality/patriarchy is by being thick skinned. New concepts and terminologies from the west comes and goes just like winter and summer collections of fashion houses. Irrespective of gender, one can achieve anything if men/women are level headed and stubborn enough to achieve what they want.
Eg: If a woman is driving and the person behind her is honking for no reason or for just sheer harassment, don't give a damn. Just turn deaf! The world won't change if one dwells over these bad experiences day and night. When I was learning driving and was harassed by other road users, I chose to be stubborn and maintain my pace without getting frustrated.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by dragracer567

Wrong! Feminism is neither an ideology nor an agenda. If you believe that men and women are equal, congrats you are a feminist. The world needs feminism since nothing less than a powerful movement can bring about equality which has been denied to women since forever.

No Sir.

They are not equal, they are different.

Gender equality is about providing equal opportunity, protection etc not treating boys and girls the same way. Our constitution provides equality and then goes one step further and takes affirmative actions in favour of women. Now what else?

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

No Sir.

They are not equal, they are different.

Gender equality is about providing equal opportunity, protection etc not treating boys and girls the same way. Our constitution provides equality and then goes one step further and takes affirmative actions in favour of women. Now what else?

In a lot if not most contexts, women need to be treated the same as men to achieve gender equality. Unfortunately, a lot of affirmative actions taken for the upliftment of women-only ends up showcasing women as 'weak' who needs apparently protection from 'stronger men'. But women are not 'weak', rather the problem women have to jump over a lot more social barriers to reach the same level of success as men do. This ranges from hidden biases to blatant misogyny.

Most if not all 'differences' between men and women are social constructs which women have broken time and time again. Thats why I believe in feminism.

My personal view, we can agree to disagree

[gkveda]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

No Sir.

They are not equal, they are different.

Gender equality is about providing equal opportunity, protection etc not treating boys and girls the same way. Our constitution provides equality and then goes one step further and takes affirmative actions in favour of women. Now what else?

I agree. If they were really equal, and treated equally by all, then, what was the need to keep advertising in all possible forums that they are equal. They are not equal and not treated equally by all.

Either, men(may be few percent) think they are supreme and treat women inferior OR Women themselves(again few percent) think they are treated inferior and
1. Treat even good men as villains
2. Always keep blaming that ALL men treat women inferior.
3. Insist and demand that they need more opportunities and facilities (like reserved seats right from Government buses till parliament seat), than men giving reason that men treat them inferior.

[Emvi]

Welcome to the group!
I categorise driving into 3 types irrespective of the gender.
1. Passionate drivers
2. Non passionate drivers.
3. Reluctant drivers.

Passionate drivers are normally very good drivers. Whatever we do out of passion, we find doing it easy and end up successful most times than not IMO, driving is no different. Be it writing, cooking, dancing, photography or for the matter anything and everything we do in our professional and personal life can be attributed to this.

Non passionate drivers generally are the ones who start driving out of necessity(of various sorts) more than anything else. Please note, I am not at all claiming that all non passionate drivers are bad drivers. There are a lot of examples of good non passionate drivers. When you do something out of passion the flair comes naturally and this is where the difference lies. There have been examples of a few developing passion at later stages of life as well.

Reluctant drivers are the ones who take up driving purely due to peer pressure, coercion and certain misconceptions. There are a category of people who themselves believe or forced to believe that they are incompetent/unfashionable if they don't ride/drive. Just to wipe out this stigma some people want to drive.

When you are in minority in a certain field, you have advantages and disadvantages in equal proportions. Female drivers belong to the minority group in India as mentioned by a fellow BHPian. More than the big cities, especially in smaller towns and rural areas, women drivers are still a rare breed. They are easily noticed each time they drive. The positives and negatives of their driving are highlighted more frequently, which in a way is unfortunate.

My personal opinion about gender equality. I don't believe in evaluating if male and female genders are equal or not, both the genders need to be treated(respected) equally though. After all life is not mathematics. Females are way too superior to men in certain aspects of life and vice versa. Without a speck of doubt, females are as equally important to the society as males are.

[Mountainman21]

Originally Posted by dragracer567

Disagree with point 5, avoid fights regardless of your gender!

Totally agree about avoiding fights. Just that we learn to avoid fights by being in one.

[apachelongbow]

All women and men should learn to drive. It can be a life saving skill, especially during unforseen emergencies. Regarding the bullying women face on the streets, unfortunately it is true. Majority of the bullying is by lowlife scum like cabbies, autowallas, moped borne squid and the kinds who think they can somehow elevate themselves from a loser status to a winner by trying to bully whom they perceive as weaker than them. Its the unwashed, uneducated part of India who so love patriarchal roleplay as such.

[H0RSEPOWER]

Appreciate the nice write up. Unfortunately not only in the space of driving seat, but in all the spaces of life patriarchy still prevails in our country in this 21st century as well! So here we are just witnessing a part of the same.
And thanks for mentioning that special treatment for only one gender is not expected as driving is not a power based activity like a game of soccer!
Just one small advice, being in a not so safe society for the ladies, certain things like going for a lone drive or especially two wheel ride in desolated roads or taking break into a not so crowded dhaba should be avoided by the female drivers. I earnestly hope for a better society where these precautions would not be required any more.

[evil_grin]

My wife was a little afraid of driving and never put enough time in it to learn, despite my pushing her. She preferred to relax in the shotgun seat.

When my son was born, the easiest way to put him to sleep was to take him on drives. So when she was at her parents house, she had to drive him to sleep.

Ever since then, our long drives went from a max of 3 hours to 3 days.

[bhargav2015]

There was a tagline which, I think, is quite apt for this situation, "Men and their rights, and nothing more...women and their rights, nothing less."
And I agree that it should be about providing equal access and opportunity for all, gender notwithstanding.
Equality, as a legal concept, is more oriented towards inclusion of diversity .

[Flatonwheels]

Looking forward to sharing my experience at Team BHP! I’ll do so with the following 10 posts. Thank you for reading and I look forward to your feedback!
1. The Decision Making Process
2. The Test Drives
3. Final Decision Making
4. Nailed It: The Harrier
5. Booking & Process
6. Counting Down to Final Payment
7. The Bank Loan Process
8. PDI and Team BHP’s Role
9. D-Day – Taking Delivery!
10. The first 600 kilometres & Covid struck

The Decision Making Process
Stage and phase of life where I needed a car. For every economics student reading this – I decided that I in fact not just needed a new car, but wanted a big one – SUV to be precise. So began the decision making process. I consulted with folks who I knew were fond of driving / liked their vehicles / were well informed / knew fair amount of what stage of life I was in and finally whose opinion I respected. So in no particular order between them they drive the following across Mumbai and Bangalore. Mind you – they all love their cars and the driving experience it offered them!
BMW 5 series, Creta, EcoSport, Thar, Jeep and Safari.
So they listed Creta (more than one person), XUV 700 (more than one person), Jeep, Kia Seltos, and Safari. What was most interesting though is that 5 of the 6 came back with the Tata Harrier as a recommendation. This is January 2022 and I had not even heard of this car. As someone who has now spent almost three decades driving (I got my license when I turned 18!) I’ve never really paid any attention to what car I drove or what the family bought. Highway driving never figured in my Mumbai or Bangalore stints or anywhere else in India and it was merely a machine to get me from point A to point B. A Tata vehicle most definitely did not figure at all in my decision making process. (Absolutely no reason except irrational biases about the fact that Tata makes bad cars). For who am I to judge cars? As a Woman, specially the last two decades - they never figured in my top priority list. I would either drive, get driven around, cab it or take a train.
Having driven the Korean and Japanese cars before - i10, Accent, Honda City, Mitsubishi Lancer?, along with a Mercedes C Class, VW Polo and Skoda Fabia, not to mention various versions of the Maruti including a Swift, Ciaz, Esteem and 800, I was quite clear I wanted a ‘’heavy’’ car with ‘’big wheels’ (More on that in #7). Since I had asked so many people for feedback, I decided I must act on that and do my research. Narrowed it down to the XUV700, Harrier and the Jeep to test drive and figure next steps. That’s when I also learned about Team BHP. Was clearly told not to make any decision without going through Team BHP first!