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Old 23rd February 2021, 21:02   #31
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Default Re: Gurugram: Vehicles displaying caste identities to face action

What next? No more teamBHP stickers on cars?

I'm someone who'd never paste something like a caste or surname on a car, but this sets a precedent. When we let them do what they want without proper proceedings and discussions, they'll keep doing it because they will be encouraged to.
One day, they'll pass something stupid and not bother because moves like these went unnoticed.

Dear Police,

Please penalize those who mess with number plates.
Please penalize those who display flags despite not being allowed to. Related link.
Please penalize those discriminating or misbehaving with anyone on the basis of anything that the constitution doesn't deem fit.

But don't tell us what we can stick or not stick on our cars.

The Tiranga is the only thing that you can tell us anything about, rest all. It's my car, my wish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fernang View Post
...people displaying their care identities are from the socially dominant groups.
a distant relative came to visit us and had his caste on the bike, I asked him why he has it and he said, despite it being a lower cast, he was proud of it.

My guess was, he was gonna use it to play the victim card lol. But IMO, he should be allowed to put whatever he wants. Though very distasteful.

Last edited by viXit : 23rd February 2021 at 21:05.
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Old 23rd February 2021, 21:10   #32
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Default Re: Gurugram: Vehicles displaying caste identities to face action

I am going to go against the tide and say that this is one hell of a move. We all know who puts out caste stickers in most of the cars and for what purpose. There is a fine line between freedom of speech and using freedom as intimidation tactics. The fact that caste system still exists in India is sad. Hopefully this is one step towards abolishing it completely.
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Old 23rd February 2021, 22:47   #33
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Default Re: Gurugram: Vehicles displaying caste identities to face action

I support the move wholeheartedly. As much as people are proud of their caste, religion, ancestry or what not, flaunting them doesn't bring anything good for the society as a whole. If any, it only asserts the divisiveness and their belonging to something that's considered superior. While it may resonate with the people of the community, it will subconsciously alienate others from other communities.

Flaunting their caste may even lead to getting preferential treatments from places that are supposed to run imperially. In case of an incident, the crowd may side with the one who belongs to their community or speaks their language. Even if someone doesn't mean anything much by it, the human psyche usually programmed to side with someone who belongs to their community. It's fundamentally against equality and impartiality. While the world is moving towards global citizenship, here we are taking pride in things that we didn't create or earn while creating more and more divisions knowingly or unknowingly.

While freedom of expression can be dragged into this for the sake of argument, we usually have filters to avoid counterproductive expressions like the censor board and other authorities. If a teenager blasts heavy metal at full volume in his Hi-Fi, do the neighbors feel offended or respect his right for freedom of expression? The same applies to visual expressions at varying degrees.

Last edited by nuew : 23rd February 2021 at 22:58.
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Old 23rd February 2021, 23:21   #34
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Default Re: Gurugram: Vehicles displaying caste identities to face action

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Originally Posted by kushagra452 View Post
How come only the so-called "upper castes" are proudly flaunting their caste identities? Clearly, the sooner the evil of caste based discrimination is done away with the better it is for the country. Sadly, it seems the caste identities are hardcoded in the DNA of quite a few (read majority) Indians and this is certainly a form of apartheid/ racism.

Indian media cries foul when an Indians abroad are victims of racism/hate crime but does not bat an eyelid for the centuries old caste based discrimination.

These stickers should most definitely be banned forever. Freedom of expression doesn't give anyone the right to discriminate on the basis of caste/colour/creed/religion etc. These stickers are clearly meant to intimidate members of other castes.
Being from Delhi and then Gurgaon and knowing some of these people first hand i'll pitch in my perspective and experience, first let me make something very clear, i'am indifferent to these stickers and not a fan of them and personally won't put any sticker whatsoever on my car, not even team bhp's. (Sorry)

These people however, don't do it out of hate, infact there is no deeper meaning or something malicious in their intentions at all, they are just not that deep people in general.
Obviously i'am not and can't speak for 100% of the population, most of those i know, however, do it just because or being proud of their heritage and nothing more/deeper, this is not meant to intimidate, discriminate or hate, hell they don't even think of that and are innocent that way, don't go on their (generally) rough exterior or language. This is just like being proud of being a Hindu, Indian, even team bhpian, people take pride in these things and this gives them kick, personally some of this doesn't make much sense to me, no one has control of where they are born, so why be proud of it?
But these things are like positive stereotypes, like people from Gujarat sometimes flaunt their business skills, Punjab flaunt their cars, looks and so on, this gives them a sense of community, belonging and security, same reason in part for pasting team bhp stickers on their cars, i have nothing against those who do, we are a great community without a doubt, i just don't like any stickers on my cars that's all.
I just like observing people and analysing why they do what they do, and these are just my observations.
Peace.
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Old 24th February 2021, 00:59   #35
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Default Re: Gurugram: Vehicles displaying caste identities to face action

In 2019,Punjab and Haryana high court had ordered the removal of all the stickers except for the pollution under control sticker from all the vehicles to ensure uniform enforcement of traffic laws & prevent the offenders getting away by using their official designation.

The stickers depicting profession like Doctor or Lawyer or even police , name of govt department, designation plates of govt officials and even depiction of POLICE on police vehicles were also declared illegal . Even the high court judges could not use the High court sticker in front of car.At first ,even parking pass stickers were not allowed though subsequently, the High court allowed them.

Perhaps the traffic police in Gurgaon is following the above order.
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Old 24th February 2021, 05:14   #36
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Default Re: Gurugram: Vehicles displaying caste identities to face action

Honestly, the government shouldn't be dictating what someone can and can't paste on their car. As long as a sticker is non-offensive, doesn't compromise safety, and isn't a duplicate to get some privilege, who cares?
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Old 24th February 2021, 08:57   #37
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Default Re: Gurugram: Vehicles displaying caste identities to face action

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitecloud View Post
In 2019,Punjab and Haryana high court had ordered the removal of all the stickers except for the pollution under control sticker from all the vehicles to ensure uniform enforcement of traffic laws & prevent the offenders getting away by using their official designation.

The stickers depicting profession like Doctor or Lawyer or even police , name of govt department, designation plates of govt officials and even depiction of POLICE on police vehicles were also declared illegal . Even the high court judges could not use the High court sticker in front of car.At first ,even parking pass stickers were not allowed though subsequently, the High court allowed them....
These are exactly the kind of draconian laws we are trying to avoid.
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Old 24th February 2021, 11:20   #38
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Default Re: Gurugram: Vehicles displaying caste identities to face action

Just curious on how this would be enforced - there are many people in the north whose name ends with their caste name. Since religion is mentioned as well, would police be cracking down on people who have verses from religious texts written on their cars?
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Old 24th February 2021, 11:37   #39
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Default Re: Gurugram: Vehicles displaying caste identities to face action

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Originally Posted by EightSix View Post

This could be true and Iíll take your (and other BHPians based in North India) word for it. My simple question ó if there was a situation where a Jatt or Gurjar got out of his stickered car with hockey sticks and assaulted a cop, would he get away scot free? No. He would be arrested/trialled/jailed. There already exist provisions in our law if an incident of violence takes place.

Why, then would you forbid someone from putting a sticker of his choice on his car! Besides, if an officer of the law gets scared of a sticker and does not pull over a car, HE IS AT FAULT.

[/b]
As for someone beating the cops - this is not unheard of in North India's rural areas especially when people from a community gather in large numbers here. I've seen disputes starting with something as small as a traffic violation and resulting in people reaching the spot in tractors and SUVs to defend their "Right to break the Law".

Even in today's world, people still get lynched in villages based on caste. In many rural areas, entry to temples is reserved for certain castes only. There are even cases in Rajasthan where inmates in jail are assigned tasks based on their caste (you can easily find documentary on the same on Youtube).

While displaying caste or may be a freedom of expression for some, caste is what fuels electoral politics in a greater part of North India. There are many hate crimes still happening due to caste based discrimination and even honour killings for inter-caste marriages in UP and Haryana.

I don't think that caste is bad, it's what people do with it makes it what it is. In my view, Caste was a social construct which has outlived its importance. There are good and bad people in every community but they don't need caste to show the world who they are.

In the end, I can't help but appreciate how civil this discussion has been. A place where people can come and discuss issues like these is rare in today's time. Kudos to team-bhp!
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Old 24th February 2021, 12:20   #40
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Default Re: Gurugram: Vehicles displaying caste identities to face action

I wonder why courts are getting tangled in this. I am of the opinion that this is a slippery slope and will be challenged and rightly so. Right of association is a fundamental right. What will the courts do when "religious pride" leads to unsavory incidents? Will they ban verses from the Bible or the Hanuman decals next?
I freely associate with team-bhp or Coorg wildlife or my language or my alma mater. When these are acceptable, why not my caste? (Not that I have any stickers on my car.)
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Old 24th February 2021, 13:14   #41
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Default Re: Gurugram: Vehicles displaying caste identities to face action

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitecloud View Post
In 2019,Punjab and Haryana high court had ordered the removal of all the stickers except for the pollution under control sticker from all the vehicles to ensure uniform enforcement of traffic laws & prevent the offenders getting away by using their official designation.
Here's in an interesting article about this order, specifically about the jurisdiction: whether it is applicable only for Chandigarh or it's a blanket judgement.

Another interesting article from UP on this topic.
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Old 24th February 2021, 13:38   #42
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Default Re: Gurugram: Vehicles displaying caste identities to face action

I believe any stickers should not be allowed in HSRP plates and windshield/windows of a vehicle because-

-Any stickers on number plates foul with identification of vehicle in case of violations/accidents.

-Stickers, just like window tints, hamper with visibility.

Other than above mentioned scenarios, I don't believe there should be any issues.As as long as they don't foul with the driving, I believe they should be allowed.

I don't have any stickers of caste/religion or profession on my car. There are plenty others though. The stickers of our community (TeamBHP) are all around along with few others.
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