[toroid]

Hi All,

I'm a beginner driver. I have had many close calls so far during my ~2K kms behind the wheels. However, being only driver from the family there's no one to give me tips or correct me.

I'm pretty sure many newbie BHPians face similar teething trouble. Thus the idea is, let's use this thread to share the dashcam footage of incidents where we are in doubt and perhaps could do with an experienced advise. Basically getting feedback from the community and make roads safer.

https://youtu.be/BZIg1HSL-HY

0:30 - i10 tries to occupy the 10-15 ft space between me and car ahead of me. I did not let it enter. Should I have slowed down?

0:55- Creta tries to enter my lane. Should I have preempted it? I did see the turn indicator. Was I supposed to let it change the lane first?


MODs: Please delete/ merge if similar threads already exists

[Thatautoguy46]

If I was in the same situation, I would first check the IRVM and ORVM and see if anybody is close to me or speeding. If there's no one I would give them the way. If there's anyone speeding up, then that would be a risk for you and the people behind you if slow down that quick.
But always maintain reasonable speeds and respect people who use indicators while shifting lanes. Because, I see a lot of people who scarily switch lanes at triple digit speeds without using indicator.
Drive safe, it is good that you are using a Dashcam

[wrongturn]

Originally Posted by toroid

Basically getting feedback from the community and make roads safer.

You were driving alright IMHO. My version of a similar dashcam footage would have been 'R' rated with a lot of 'beeps'.

Indicators/ trafficators don't give anybody the right of way, the vehicle changing it's lane must make sure it's done when the lane is clear and then change the lane, in a safe way. From your dashcam footage the grand i10 was trying to force it to avoid the truck in it's lane and the Creta guy was simply stupid.
Ignore them, you'll find plenty of such examples on the road. Drive safe and with caution.

[Alterlife]

In city traffic, people will speed up to close the gap between them and the vehicle in front of them to less than a cars length when somebody is trying to aggressively cut them off. Basically if you see the car behind you speeding up, and you can anticipate that they're going to try to cut you off, keep your cars nose in front of theirs or close enough to the car in front of you so that they physically cannot cut in. Taxi drivers are very good at doing this relatively safely.

Personally I'm a less spirited driver so I would have given way to both cars, and the characters driving them. It's no more than a few seconds lost.

Even if my car is a dubba, I don't want a scratch on it.

That said, you had the right of way in both cases but driving on Indian roads is a constant negotiation.

If you wanted to keep the lane in the first instance you could have started to speed up a bit earlier. You can tell that the i10 was going to try and cut in because there was a truck in his lane, but he was still speeding up.... where else would he go? If you had picked up the pace a bit earlier and closed the gap with the car in front a bit, he would have slowed down.

The second guy was just nuts but I would have been way more cautious about overtaking him. Why did he stop like that? Sane people don't just randomly stop in free flowing traffic. I would be very cautious about overtaking him because I don't see what's in front very clearly.

In this case, looks like he was just having a senior moment?

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by toroid

Hi All,

I'm a beginner driver. I have had many close calls so far during my ~2K kms behind the wheels.
0:30 - i10 tries to occupy the 10-15 ft space between me and car ahead of me. I did not let it enter. Should I have slowed down?

0:55- Creta tries to enter my lane. Should I have preempted it? I did see the turn indicator. Was I supposed to let it change the lane first?

Firstly, kudos to having an open mind and being receptive to feedback.

0:30: I think the i10 was wrong to try and squeeze in and you were “entitled” to hold your lane. However, I might add that situations like these are where defensive driving hold you in good stead. It only takes one such situation where the wrongful i10 does not give up or misjudged and the close call translates into a scrape.

TL;DR: You had right of way but a little defensive driving approach wouldn’t have hurt.

0:55: I empathise with the Creta here. It’s ok to have to change lanes. He was nearly two car lengths ahead, and it seems like you actively accelerated in order to preserve your ability to move ahead, ahead of the Creta. This is where most Indian motorists lack basic courtesy. It’s ok to let someone pass. I think if more people would do that we would in many situations have more empathetic driving experience. Instead, for most part people have a ME first approach.

TL;DR: I think the Creta should have been allowed to pass. He was far ahead enough.

Merging lanes: Not the same situation as your footage but just citing as an example. In Mumbai very often we have merging lanes due to obstructions ahead, wrongfully stopped / parked vehicles, really bad road and what not, in multi lane bumper to bumper traffic. My general thumb rule in such cases is the car that is partially ahead should be allowed to go and try to slot in, in front of the car behind - or vice versa - patiently allow the car that’s more forward in length to slot in ahead of me in case of merging lanes. Most often, I see cars behind wanting to force their way through and its simply inconsiderate and also is leading to jostling. If more people were to simply accept this approach there would be a more civilised outcome to such situations.

[VKumar]

Originally Posted by toroid

I'm a beginner driver.

Dear Toroid

Whatever you have done, is all fine, it's just that the things could have been better. Years back when I was a newbie, even I too used to drive the same way. But off late, you realize that you actually don't save anything more than maybe a second or two by getting into such acts of not letting anyone else enter the lane. Three situations are possible:

• They simply let you pass: The simplest outcome of all!
  
• They forcefully enter your lane: That was me, 5 years back
  Once the bumper and come into the way of other driver, just bulldoze. Very high risk of a contact between the vehicles if the driver don't straighten the wheel on time. High probability of road rage, unwanted races etc, especially if both the cars contain some group of friends.
  
• They hit your car: Happens in metros, quite common for mirrors to hit each other and at times cars too, especially if its a full size adder frame SUV or a bus or truck and your hatchback is running exactly parallel. Reason being, the driver won't have exact estimate of where your car's front actually ends. High risk of road rage follows!

My Opinion: You should have let the Creta pass (I would avoid a driver like that from a yardstick distance, don't understand what he was doing this way on an empty section), it was still distant enough. Even letting the grand i10 also entering the lane wasn't a risk and wouldn't have costed you in terms of time either. Effectively, the risk you took is bigger than the risk of letting it go!

My Suggestion:Learn defensive driving, be calm and let them switch the lanes, it is not worth the headache and the risk of ego clash. You can overtake them 10 seconds later and again start following the same car you were following before, isn't it?

These days I have become a calm driver, I do drive like a demon on expressway at times. But in the city, instead of blocking the way of people, I let them pass. It actually saves more time in letting people pass and then calmly move ahead, than blocking them and causing deadlocks in situations. It's a different situation that I get frustrated when others don't follow it, but then, it's India; here people will not let you pass to save their time, but still can spend half an hour arguing with you.

A Recent Experience:
I was driving behind a truck on a very narrow road.So, this Scorpio with a political flag and blazing sirens came and directly came parallel to me in a section where a safe overtake isn't possible, and some vehicles came from opposite end. I honked and gave a clear message that he has to wait as the road is too narrow and I am not allowing him to enter the lane.

I had two options:

• Let things turn bad, and escalate it
• De-escalate the situation

I went for second one. I rolled down the window and did a hand signal for him to wait. He immediately stopped honking and flashing. As soon as I found a safe section, I waved him to overtake. When he passed me, we had an eye contact, but it was more a friendly contact, instead of changing the angry glances. I didn't save a single second in either not letting him overtake, nor did I lose the time by letting him go ahead - but I saved myself from a lot of headache, that counts.

[Thermodynamics]

Good initiative, appreciate your open minded post.

My friend, Driving is all but calculations.

In case of i20, you should have closed the gap before anyone can attempt squeezing you. Which you weren’t because you are moving at a steady speed leaving an enticing room for other party to assume you aren’t moving ahead i.e., a hog.

In case of Creta, clearly he is going to come into your lane and you wanted to accelerate ahead. This is wrong.

That being said, in both occasions the other parties are on the wrong side as well. They are not supposed to cut lane simply because they have turned an indicator. They should have ensured if it is clear to cut lane. But my friend, our roads are full of such illiterates and we got to be defensive and patient.

[Gansan]

Never keep more than a car length between you and the car ahead of you. It will tempt people to cut in. I usually follow the vehicle close enough, where I can see his back wheels. I don't go closer than that.

It is a good practice to allow aggressive drivers to go if they want. Never be a trigger for road rage. But We should not have to brake suddenly to let them pass. I always place my foot on the brake pedal momentarily to illuminate the brake lamps briefly, before actually braking. That will give sufficient warning to anyone following closely behind.

But I see you are rather aggressive in denying the Creta. If he gets that close, let him go. Can we try the same move with the lorry moving ahead of the Creta? It will be dangerous. The trick is to anticipate dangerous situations and avoid them.

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by Axe77

TL;DR: I think the Creta should have been allowed to pass. He was far ahead enough.

.

Sorry one small edt on the Creta. While he was entitled to change lanes - on a relook it seems like he slowed down really dangerously to do so. Not sure if his intent was to pull over or what it was. Cant imagine why he would come to such a slow roll if he was just changing lanes. Having said that all the more reason I would be “defensive” around someone like that (so long as We dont sense a speeding vehicle behind us too.

[TrackDay]

Sometimes it is best to let certain folks get ahead. With them gone , one can drive peacefully. Also No point losing your cool and spoiling the mood for the day arguing with them.

I always maintain huge gaps in front of my car while driving abroad. However I cant be that generous here in India. It is seen as an opportunity by other vehicles to squeeze into that gap. In city traffic I can maintain no longer than 3 feet feet fearing two wheelers will occupy that space. On highways though I do maintain a gap sufficient for a small hatchback to fit in between. Anything larger than that is dangerous for me as some idiot will trying to slide into that space and hence endanger my vehicle.

[whitewing]

Originally Posted by toroid

..0:30 - i10 tries to occupy the 10-15 ft space between me and car ahead of me. I did not let it enter. Should I have slowed down?

Live and let live, the i10 sure is being driven aggressively. But, I
generally make way for such people in a hurry, and there are lots of them.

The garbage truck is slow moving and yet the hyundai anyway comes charging in, overtaking you. This by itself is a good indication it is driven by someone who doesn't know driving/is an inconsiderate driver.

So, possible measures would be either accelerate to cut off the garbage truck as you did OR proceed as before with the anticipated lane change, if and when it happens - allow the lane change and take it as your contribution to humanity and move on.

Key aspects I would take out of this is anticipation and the understanding that one is not in a road race. As long as one reaches the destination in good time, with an unstressed mind, you are a winner.
Can't stress enough how important these are in per-empting hazardous situations from occurring.

Originally Posted by Gansan

Never keep more than a car length between you and the car ahead of you. It will tempt people to cut in. I usually follow the vehicle close enough, where I can see his back wheels. I don't go closer than that.

Agree with you on all points except the vehicle spacing, and well put.
On the spacing between vehicles I have a different opinion- the advice to keep less than one vehicle distance may work in low speed congested roads, from the visuals, I think this is the Peenya flyover which is a NH, where vehicles average 50-60kmph. Keeping such low spacing can lead to accidents and should be avoided.

[Hayek]

Appreciate the fact that you are open minded enough to post this and ask for feedback. So I will be candid here. In my view, in both cases your driving was impolite and your forcing your way past the Creta was probably downright dangerous.

This is a two lane flyover where you have no run off zones - and where traffic is relatively fast. In such circumstances, I would advice defensive driving - which includes allowing someone who is changing lanes to go past a slow moving truck (as in the case of the i10), or is changing lanes for some other reason (such as positioning for an exit as the Creta did) to come ahead of you. If you have to honk to prevent someone from entering your lane, in my view, you should brake to allow him to enter instead.

The i10 had its nose ahead of you - yes, if I were in the i10, I would have slowed down to follow the truck but once you saw him cutting in, forcing your way past was impolite and could have lead to accidents. In the Creta’s case, you were still passing the car behind him when he started changing lanes - I can see no reason whatsoever to bully him. The fact is people have the right to change lanes, and may do so for different reasons. Especially on a flyover, it is better to give way as long as you don’t have to slam your brakes to do so. In both these cases, you were not in that position

Must also add that some of the comments about never keeping more than a car length ahead of you are even more dangerous, especially on a flyover. Your gap should ideally be 2-3 seconds in traffic moving at anything more than crawling speeds. You lose nothing if someone comes in front of you in such conditions, and keeping too narrow a gap especially if you are a new driver and have less muscle memory of noticing a car slowing 2-3 places ahead is a recipe to ask for a multiple car crash

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

Basically in this 1-minute video, you have not allowed even 1 person to change into your lane , despite seeing them trying to 'cut' into the left lane due to impending traffic in front, this is not a good sign and very dangerous. Defensive driving doesn't mean you need to drive slow or fast, it means to anticipate what the other driver might do and plan your moves in advance, easier said than done.

BUT, I would suggest, to drive safe in India, in such situations, let the other guy who is in a hurry go, you will notice that a few seconds gained or lost will not affect you in the longer run.

I follow this - if travelling at 50 kmph, I try to keep at least 25 m from the car in front of me (I know this is very difficult in India, but I try to keep a sufficient distance, considering my reaction time and braking distance). In the highway, as speeds increase, increase the safe distance appropriately. Don't get too close to the vehicle in front, you might get nasty surprises.

Good that you wanna learn from your mistakes, drive safe!

Spike

[Keeleri_Achu]

Dashcams have been immensely helpful in improving my driving style. Glad to see that you're also following the same.

Like others suggested, you need to practice defensive driving. Letting them go is mostly the best option in such scenarios. It can avoid a lot of head aches in the future.

A recent video from my dashcam:

https://youtu.be/xlITFU8ZuUI

In this case, I didn't even bother honking as it would've only startled her. I usually depress the brake pedal just enough to warn those behind me while not actually braking.

P.S: Since it's India sometimes even defensive driving can get you in trouble. During my drive to Chennai last month, I let a cabbie cut in to my lane to overtake a truck in the right lane. A Bolero driver who was following me pulled parallel to me from the shoulder and started honking furiously. He was pissed because I let the cabbie pass. He shouted something in Tamil, squeezed me to the right lane and then accelerated away.

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by whitewing

Agree with you on all points except the vehicle spacing, and well put.
On the spacing between vehicles I have a different opinion- the advice to keep less than one vehicle distance may work in low speed congested roads, from the visuals, I think this is the Peenya flyover which is a NH, where vehicles average 50-60kmph. Keeping such low spacing can lead to accidents and should be avoided.

Didn't look like highway or highway speeds to me. If it is indeed a NH, all the more reason to stick to our own pace and let the other fellow pass.

The one car length is for city roads in general, during traffic hours. Higher the speed, more space required, naturally.