Lost Control on road in Swift

rks · 16th July 2007, 15:09

I have experienced aquaplaning on many stretches of the Mumbai-Pune Expressway where the concrete is very smooth and there are puddles or sheets/patches of water due to slow drainage in moderate to heavy rain. This was when I tried doing 100-120 kmph with tubed S322 tyres that were more than 5 years old and not too much tread left. The steering would alternately tug left/right with not too much control as you hit small patches of water. The car would hit puddles (virtually invisible at night) and at times pull sharp left or right without any warning, which can be very unnerving, since the puddles would also create a blinding splash of water on the windscreen. Had to slow down to 90 kmph or lower in heavy rains to feel like I have some control.

Presently with tubeless S322 tyres that are about 1 year old and 19500 kms done, and with 5" alloy wheels replacing the stock 4" wheels, the car handles much better and holds its line while hitting water puddles at 100+ speeds. After switching to alloys and tubeless tyres, I am also doing my tyre/wheel maintenance at a well equipped tyre shop in Pune. Earlier I used to rely on my local garage and found uneven wear on the tread (indicating misalignment) and the car was weaving about a lot at higher speeds (130+ kmph). Now the car holds its line and the tread wear is even.

WhiteKnight · 16th July 2007, 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by anarchist

Micraft, I guess you overtook this bus and when you squeezed between the bus and the Alto you would have got a slight kiss/nudge from the front bumper of the bus which will surely get you fish tailing like you mentioned.

. Micraft, would you comment on this?

I have driven extensively on the rubberized roads during rainy season. It is not that bad. If I remember, the claim for rubberized roads were that they offer better grip!

Anyway, drive safe

ggkg · 16th July 2007, 15:30

Guys, i am very very sorry to say this, but IMHO Team-BHP seems to be condoning if not encouraging reckless driving.

There are many examples, in various threads on this topic, but sticking to this thread...here is what happened in few sentences

- car going at well over 70kmph on 'amazing narrow' road
- trying to overtake a bus doing well over that speed as well.
- that too with feet on the accelerator pressing 'metal to pedal'
- that too without signal from the driver in front
- in a corner as if these don't make it bad enough!

Is it any surprise that the car did not crash on to the oncoming Alto or did something crazy as the driver tried to save the Alto / jaywalking cowherd / blind cyclist or any of the zillion things that roam around on our streets?

While it is alright for wishing the passengers/driver well, particularly if they are fellow members, I find it disheartening to note that we end up discussing exotic stuff like aquaplaning and 'learning' irrelevant lessons like 'fasten seat belts' as if that would have saved a pedestrian/motorcyclist/cyclist/cowboy or anyone else that day, had they been hit.

Yes seat belt saves lives, we know that, what if a lorry driver wearing a seat belt does similar things and crashes on to our car? Will there be no other lessons to learn?

The ONLY lesson to learn in this (and various other such crashes that involve our friends/near and dear/ourselves) is that driving at such speeds in such conditions is reckless, suicidal, murderous and criminal. I hope the member that escaped with his life will not do it again.

We have a severe shortage of roads and we have to share it with practically the entire animal kingdom on top of humans in all kinds of transport forms dating to middle ages. There is no choice.

To start with mods should delete / ban posts that brag about doing 120/150kmph etc. Apart from being illegal, it is madness in Indian roads. I am saying this in the honest interest of safety of our members and the other road users. Let us do that in the F1 circuit and win glory for the country and ourselves. The sad thing is while we have thousands of pseudo heroes that drive recklessly in our crowded streets and kill a lakh humans a year, our best racing driver finishes last in the global ranking, with all respect to his skills!

Enough!

moralfibre · 16th July 2007, 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by rks

After switching to alloys and tubeless tyres, I am also doing my tyre/wheel maintenance at a well equipped tyre shop in Pune. Earlier I used to rely on my local garage and found uneven wear on the tread (indicating misalignment) and the car was weaving about a lot at higher speeds (130+ kmph). Now the car holds its line and the tread wear is even.

Which is the well equipped tyre shop that you go to Rks? I would love to give it a try too.

mobike008 · 16th July 2007, 17:10

@ggkg, very well said. However, note that here we share our experiences of almost everything related to an automobile and that does not mean that we are encouraging high speed/reckless driving.

I truly beileve that this forum only makes the driver understand his/car's limits and will infact save him from something that he may not have been aware before. Having said that, finally it all boils down to individuals and their driving skills, temparments to ensure that they do not behave recklessly and endanger themselves and others in their vain attempt of becoming a pseudo hero

rks · 16th July 2007, 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by moralfibre

Which is the well equipped tyre shop that you go to Rks? I would love to give it a try too.

I go to Unitread Tyres. You can buy your tyres/alloys and do wheel balancing either at their East Street branch or in their main branch, which is another 3 kms away towards Shivaji Nagar. For alignment you have to go to their main branch. They have good modern equipment. There is a guy called Vicky in the East Street branch who handles the customers is quite skilled at wheel balancing/fixing punctures. But don't rely on these guys to suggest proper tyre upsize for your car or the appropriate alloys; they may try to do a hard-sell. The people who do the alignment are good and do a professional job.

I have heard that Golden Tyres in East Street is also very good, and has a wide range of alloys/tyres. I haven't tried them out yet.

moralfibre · 16th July 2007, 17:30

I did my balancing at Unitread on East Street and they are good. Darshan tyres on F.C. Road are good too. Problem with Unitread is that they managed to almost scratch my alloy wheels because they were lazy to pluck out the weight on the alloys and refit and chose to just slide it on the alloy wheel ring. I blasted them after which they took proper care.

lohithrao · 16th July 2007, 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by rahul_intlad

I think samurai can give us a bit more details but there seems to be complaints from the udupi area highways too about the rubber making the road very slippery and drivers complaining that panic braking is almost suicidal.
There have been quite a few accidents because of the above reason mostly when the road is wet.

Think there was a thread on team-bhp about these accidents on some particular stretch..

Opps sounds scarry, would be great if you could let us know which stretch in udupi?? would ensure that am little carful next time i take that road.

micraft: that was a scarry experience. btw which tyres are you running?

rks · 16th July 2007, 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by moralfibre

Problem with Unitread is that they managed to almost scratch my alloy wheels because they were lazy to pluck out the weight on the alloys and refit and chose to just slide it on the alloy wheel ring. I blasted them after which they took proper care.

Vicky always removes the old weights and then puts in the minimum weights required for balancing. Unfortunately he is often busy with new customers and the other guys are not as good. Vicky also blasts these guys when they fit/remove the tubeless tyres from the wheels and asks them to take proper care so as to not damage the bead area. Prior to balancing, the small stones and other junk caught up in the tyres should be removed first; these can cause a small difference of up to 5 gms in the balancing weights required, as per Vicky. I always insist on this and also see to it that they set the proper wheel size on the balancing machine. Unfortunately you have to monitor all this yourself or else these guys could goof up. The alignment machine at the main branch and the people there are good, though.

gigy · 16th July 2007, 17:52

micraft buddy the first thing is ti change your tyres. stock ones are bad really bad. go for 185 of 195s tubeless

BaCkSeAtDrIVeR · 16th July 2007, 20:00

I have noticed that water drains much more slowly in Kerala rubberised roads, and the rubber content in the tar makes the road surface very smooth. With even a thin sheet of water, I guess this causes tye tyres to loose grip. And on the kind of the roads being mentioned, I suspect that slope (of the road to sides to drain away water) is very uneven, given the kind of terrain.
And there are 2 lessons for all of us should learn - never overtake an accelerating vehicle!!! and never trust the speed governors!!!

micraft · 16th July 2007, 23:58

But the road wasn't wet at all, there weren't any signs of rain, but i couldn't be sure.

I'm absolutely positive that the bus didn't kiss/nudge my car.

Yes, u'r absolutely right about overtaking on blind curves, but by the time i realized it was a blind curve, i was at a suitable position to complete the overtaking, but the sweet kind bus driver who was driving a bus with a Speed limit Sticker of 60km/hr was in a bad mood i guess. But there is no excuse from my side, it was my fault, i was a bigger a** than the bus driver.

nitrous · 17th July 2007, 00:09

Get new tyres,bro.
Those 165 JKs are cycle tyres for the Swift's weight and power.
185/70/R14 is bare necessity, IMO!

kuttapan · 17th July 2007, 10:54

Yes, never trust Jk's with your life. I have Michelin Xm1's( 185/70/R14) and they perform admirably well.

Change your cars footwear asap. You already had your lesson. And of course, drive more carefully.

esteem_lover · 17th July 2007, 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrous

Get new tyres,bro.
Those 165 JKs are cycle tyres for the Swift's weight and power.
185/70/R14 is bare necessity, IMO!

Absolutely right. Change to better tyres, you have had a warning.

16th July 2007, 15:09	#31
rks BANNED Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: ?? Posts: 1,238 Thanked: 17 Times	I have experienced aquaplaning on many stretches of the Mumbai-Pune Expressway where the concrete is very smooth and there are puddles or sheets/patches of water due to slow drainage in moderate to heavy rain. This was when I tried doing 100-120 kmph with tubed S322 tyres that were more than 5 years old and not too much tread left. The steering would alternately tug left/right with not too much control as you hit small patches of water. The car would hit puddles (virtually invisible at night) and at times pull sharp left or right without any warning, which can be very unnerving, since the puddles would also create a blinding splash of water on the windscreen. Had to slow down to 90 kmph or lower in heavy rains to feel like I have some control. Presently with tubeless S322 tyres that are about 1 year old and 19500 kms done, and with 5" alloy wheels replacing the stock 4" wheels, the car handles much better and holds its line while hitting water puddles at 100+ speeds. After switching to alloys and tubeless tyres, I am also doing my tyre/wheel maintenance at a well equipped tyre shop in Pune. Earlier I used to rely on my local garage and found uneven wear on the tread (indicating misalignment) and the car was weaving about a lot at higher speeds (130+ kmph). Now the car holds its line and the tread wear is even.
	() Thanks

16th July 2007, 15:30	#33
ggkg BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 149 Thanked: 162 Times	Guys, i am very very sorry to say this, but IMHO Team-BHP seems to be condoning if not encouraging reckless driving. There are many examples, in various threads on this topic, but sticking to this thread...here is what happened in few sentences - car going at well over 70kmph on 'amazing narrow' road - trying to overtake a bus doing well over that speed as well. - that too with feet on the accelerator pressing 'metal to pedal' - that too without signal from the driver in front - in a corner as if these don't make it bad enough! Is it any surprise that the car did not crash on to the oncoming Alto or did something crazy as the driver tried to save the Alto / jaywalking cowherd / blind cyclist or any of the zillion things that roam around on our streets? While it is alright for wishing the passengers/driver well, particularly if they are fellow members, I find it disheartening to note that we end up discussing exotic stuff like aquaplaning and 'learning' irrelevant lessons like 'fasten seat belts' as if that would have saved a pedestrian/motorcyclist/cyclist/cowboy or anyone else that day, had they been hit. Yes seat belt saves lives, we know that, what if a lorry driver wearing a seat belt does similar things and crashes on to our car? Will there be no other lessons to learn? The ONLY lesson to learn in this (and various other such crashes that involve our friends/near and dear/ourselves) is that driving at such speeds in such conditions is reckless, suicidal, murderous and criminal. I hope the member that escaped with his life will not do it again. We have a severe shortage of roads and we have to share it with practically the entire animal kingdom on top of humans in all kinds of transport forms dating to middle ages. There is no choice. To start with mods should delete / ban posts that brag about doing 120/150kmph etc. Apart from being illegal, it is madness in Indian roads. I am saying this in the honest interest of safety of our members and the other road users. Let us do that in the F1 circuit and win glory for the country and ourselves. The sad thing is while we have thousands of pseudo heroes that drive recklessly in our crowded streets and kill a lakh humans a year, our best racing driver finishes last in the global ranking, with all respect to his skills! Enough! Last edited by ggkg : 16th July 2007 at 15:33.
	() Thanks

16th July 2007, 17:10	#35
mobike008 Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 11,702 Thanked: 14,828 Times View My Garage	@ggkg, very well said. However, note that here we share our experiences of almost everything related to an automobile and that does not mean that we are encouraging high speed/reckless driving. I truly beileve that this forum only makes the driver understand his/car's limits and will infact save him from something that he may not have been aware before. Having said that, finally it all boils down to individuals and their driving skills, temparments to ensure that they do not behave recklessly and endanger themselves and others in their vain attempt of becoming a pseudo hero
	() Thanks

16th July 2007, 17:30	#37
moralfibre Team-BHP Support Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: MH-12 Posts: 8,451 Thanked: 13,973 Times	I did my balancing at Unitread on East Street and they are good. Darshan tyres on F.C. Road are good too. Problem with Unitread is that they managed to almost scratch my alloy wheels because they were lazy to pluck out the weight on the alloys and refit and chose to just slide it on the alloy wheel ring. I blasted them after which they took proper care.
	() Thanks

16th July 2007, 17:52	#40
gigy Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: mumbai Posts: 1,321 Thanked: 47 Times	micraft buddy the first thing is ti change your tyres. stock ones are bad really bad. go for 185 of 195s tubeless
	() Thanks

16th July 2007, 20:00	#41
BaCkSeAtDrIVeR BANNED Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Kochi Posts: 2,522 Thanked: 752 Times	I have noticed that water drains much more slowly in Kerala rubberised roads, and the rubber content in the tar makes the road surface very smooth. With even a thin sheet of water, I guess this causes tye tyres to loose grip. And on the kind of the roads being mentioned, I suspect that slope (of the road to sides to drain away water) is very uneven, given the kind of terrain. And there are 2 lessons for all of us should learn - never overtake an accelerating vehicle!!! and never trust the speed governors!!!
	() Thanks

16th July 2007, 23:58	#42
micraft BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 108 Thanked: 289 Times	But the road wasn't wet at all, there weren't any signs of rain, but i couldn't be sure. I'm absolutely positive that the bus didn't kiss/nudge my car. Yes, u'r absolutely right about overtaking on blind curves, but by the time i realized it was a blind curve, i was at a suitable position to complete the overtaking, but the sweet kind bus driver who was driving a bus with a Speed limit Sticker of 60km/hr was in a bad mood i guess. But there is no excuse from my side, it was my fault, i was a bigger a** than the bus driver.
	() Thanks

17th July 2007, 00:09	#43
nitrous Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: UAE/Lon/Madras Posts: 6,965 Thanked: 325 Times View My Garage	Get new tyres,bro. Those 165 JKs are cycle tyres for the Swift's weight and power. 185/70/R14 is bare necessity, IMO!
	() Thanks

17th July 2007, 10:54	#44
kuttapan Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,155 Thanked: 22 Times View My Garage	Yes, never trust Jk's with your life. I have Michelin Xm1's( 185/70/R14) and they perform admirably well. Change your cars footwear asap. You already had your lesson. And of course, drive more carefully.
	() Thanks