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-   -   Are access controlled roads that bar slow moving vehicles elitist? (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street-experiences/275790-access-controlled-roads-bar-slow-moving-vehicles-elitist-2.html)

I think the poll is black and white. Should have a grey too in which there should be an option which says we allow more types of vehicles than we currently do based on their top speed, cc etc than just the number of wheels.

I mean, I cannot vote in any of the options as I believe 70 cc scooties should not be allowed but I have no problem with 250 cc Pulsar's and Duke's who can cruise and move at 100 kmph being there just for the inclusiveness

It is elitist. However there is a safety aspect too and as longas there are service roads which enable the slower vehicles to travel alongside the same road/travel same KMs as the tolled road, I'm fine with it. Equality can never be absolute.

Wow. The extremes opinions folks form, just because they can? Is the damage to the occupants likely to be even comparable if say a two wheeler vs a four wheeler meets with an accident unfortunately, travelling at same speeds?
Why does it have to be oh I can attain this much speed on my two wheeler therfore...it's simple risk reduction measures. Where's the elitism in that?

This is an issue of safety, and we should not allow anyone onto access-controlled roads unless they are fully compliant.

I suggest the following steps be taken:

• The operator of every vehicle must have completed an accredited defensive driving course.
• The operator of every vehicle must be licensed to drive by a jurisdiction which takes driving regulations, testing, and licensing separately. This is clearly not the case in India, so all operators must be licensed by the either the EU, North American countries, the UK, Japan, Australia, Singapore, or Norway.
• Each vehicle's owner must present proof of income tax returns of over 1 cr. As we know, richer people take safety more seriously because they have more to lose.
• The operator of each vehicle must also have at least a bachelor's degree, attained with distinction.
• Each vehicle on such roads should have an xNCAP rating of 4+.

In fact, access to all critical facilities should similarly be restricted in the name of safety. From railway stations to hospitals, we should be wary of admitting anyone who doesn't fit a 'safe' profile.

As the starter of the this thread, I’m just struck by the mature reasoning that we take for granted on team-bhp.

My college mates WhatsApp discussion devolved into gaalis (subtle and not so subtle) and ad-hominem arguments within just a few hours. The entire point of the discussion was quickly lost.

Not so here. This is something rare, and we’re privileged to be part of it.

Well. The Mods work overtime to create such an environment.

And even if someone wants to be sarcastic or give the teambhp version of gaali the post just above yours is the perfect example of a matured one.:D

I don't think it is elitist at all. The expressways are built with a purpose and that will get diluted if all the banned class of vehicles are allowed on them. On paper the reasoning may be about safety and speed, but hey - what about those slow moving trucks hogging all lanes?

Practically speaking a 4 wheeler traffic including heavy vehicles is easier to discipline, or inherently more disciplined because of sheer weight and size and has some restriction on rashness by virtue of their design.

Bring in the bike traffic - commuter and performance bikes included - and these roads will become chaotic due to the indiscipline nature bikes allow for by design. No offence to bikers here but it's the general flexibility and maneuverability of bikes I am talking about.

In principle, the roads should be open to all.

But practically, at least where India is positioned in terms of road safety, access control is one of the easier controls to implement to lessen the potential damage. So my vote goes to necessity of access control.

Vehicles can be allowed on the access controlled roads as long as:

1. everyone follows lane discipline (high hopes). You cannot have an extremely slow moving 2/3 wheeler on a highway, just like trucks compounding the irritation of faster moving vehicles.
2. They should also be paying tolls - point which I don't see many talking about. You use, you pay simple as that

It is definitely elitist, you can counter-argue with whatever reasons but blocking a particular road/route for a certain set of vehicles mean blocking it for a certain set of people.

If safety is an issue, just have dedicated lanes for the slower speed vehicles and access control that at the entry and exit points. I don't buy the argument that it is hard to implement; for a country that is planning satellite based toll, etc can solve this very well. For example, why not add lane dividers between fast and slower lanes? or have lane monitor camera to detect rule breakers and fine then at the exist point of expressway? There are definitely ways to solve this, banning them is just a lazy solution and affects common people the most.

Asking someone to pay for accessing faster/shorter route I can understand but if one has to own something in order to be eligible to access a public infrastructure that was built using everyone's tax money is completely unfair and elitist.

There are definitely some technical aspects like vehicle type/speeds/capacity, etc. which call for controlled access based purely on technical reasons. Ex. We dont allow Heavy truckers to cruise in fast lanes on expressways purely based on technical reasons, no other parameter for discrimination here. We cant allow small capacity bikes/mopeds/rickshaws on expressways for the same reasons.

But, IMO this argument is a classic Capitalism (Controlled access) vs Socialism (Access to all) and all the aspects of Capitalism vs Socialism argument apply here too.

Also, this topic can't be discussed in isolation.
How many aspects in our lives can we equalize/neutralize practically?
Are we going to accomodate slum dwellers and well planned residential complex residents together?
Are we going to ban private schools and send everyone to government run schools?
Are we going to ban the use of luxury/high quality goods/services? Because its also unequal and hence kind of a discrimination?
This argument can be played in every aspect of our lives.

But, time and time again world has seen that no matter how good in principle the Socialism sounds, the Capitalism is the one which gives practical results and growth.

It's simple, if there arent any incremental rewards/benefits available for incremental efforts/money spent, then most of the population wont bother to put in those additions efforts, this socialist policy always results in a stagnancy or even a decline.

Voted No, but it is not the vehicles that are a problem from a safety point of view (even though studies have shown that slow vehicles are known to increase the risk of accidents in generally fast moving city traffic), I think it is the driver that is more responsible for mishaps (have no data, just personal observation)

Probably will get flak for this, bit India needs a tiered licensing system, a city/rural license for folks who can drive as the vast majority drive these days (insurance premiums might get higher for them) and a full rights complete access driver's license given only after a thorough examination (MCQs followed by simulator driving test, then on a ground [cones, slopes] and then finally on roads) as is the norm elsewhere.

regards kaps454

This is a common sign on US expressways. Access-controlled roads are not a new concept. They've been used in other countries. It is a proven fact that slow-moving traffic poses a serious safety risk.

They're not elitist if the following conditions are satisfied:

1. The criteria for access are set thoughtfully. All vehicles that can be safely operated at the speed limit must be allowed.

2. A viable alternate route exists for other types of vehicles

3. High-speed public transport options are available on the access-controlled routes

In the Indian context, i see these bans as extremely elitist. Bulk of India travels on two wheels or uses public transport. We are all used to madcap bikers and aggressive lane changing car wallahs on our daily commute. So what really stops anyone from exhibiting the same behavior on these expressways and why stop anyone who has the ability to pay the toll from using these roads.
The alternative is extremely poor. Many national highways suffer or are badly maintained once these expressways become operational. You simply cannot cut off a large section of population from using the infrastructure just because of 'slow' traffic. We face it every say with truckers doing 30 kmph in the fast lane on beautiful six laners and some cars treating the lane divider as a way to center their car.

The hard but necessary road the governments and agencies need to travel on is better training, licensing and policing to ensure people comply. As more and more vehicles start plying on the roads with poor training, these 6 laners will just be obstacle courses as you dance around trucks and joyriders.

2006 there was a first of a kind integrated township was coming up in an area of 30+ acres. The builder was a Malaysian construction co. In addition to give an exclusive access controlled road for the residents to join the main road (100 ft) they also created excellent safety mechanisms for entry and exit as well.
Unfortunately this is very hard to secure as public keeps trespassing and start using entry and exit access roads by not actually entering the township.
The menace becomes more when there is a choc-bloc traffic.
Hence as far as India is concerned it’s very difficult to enforce.
Recently a new township came up in the vicinity and they do not have any private access roads, their residents have been trespassing from this township’s exit access road in the wrong way!

There’s lots of very detailed regulations required, cost factors, population from the area to be projected over period of 20 years and then implemented.