[lsjey]

Originally Posted by Omkar

Attachment 2586821

As seen in this acknowledgement from the police this is categorized as non-cognizable. This means that the police need not take any action. From the description OP has been harassed and there is property damage. So this has to be a cognizable offence. Only for cognizable offences police open FIR. I learnt this pretty recently. We should improve our awareness of the law and why and how police function to better adjust our expectations from them. Police also deal only with criminal and not on civil complaints. Lawyers on this forum can clarify.

Regards,
Lsjey

[handsofsteel]

We shifted to Bengaluru (Bangalore, as it was known then), in 1992. Even in those days, we were told that its a must to know the language before you shift. As a schoolchild, I remember going to the local railway station and buying a book, "Learn Kannada in 30 days." A brilliant series for all languages that would teach you to read, write and even speak. We went to a kannadiga lady in the neighbourhood with the book and learnt the language (passable enough to understand movies, engage in basic conversation and read signboards and bus routes).

We came to Bangalore and we started using the buses. We had to change 3 buses to reach school. I was pleasantly surprised to see that it was nothing that we were warned against, buses/ Roads/ landmarks had English, Hindi and Kannada boards. Everyone spoke at least three languages and communication was the least of anybody's problems. Then came the winds of change (still in the early-mid 90s). We were still at school when we saw people's vehicles/ shops being tarred. Buses started having only Kannada Boards. Worse, As it was out of syllabus for me, was that Kannada numerals started being used (as it turned out, many locals also did not understand the kannada numerals). Having fanned public frenzy, a few of these groups became famous.

Auto rickshaw drivers were polite and courteous. There were not too many who would be out to make a fast buck. My cousins from Chennai would be flabbergasted at seeing polite auto drivers

Over a period of time, I moved out of the city and started becoming a visitor. These days, when I visit my parents, I do not recognise the cultural change that has afflicted the auto drivers. The seem to be (excuse my description) louts first and foremost. While I still speak broken Kannada, I can understand it perfectly well. What gets my goat is when the person in authority or on the wrong side of the law tells me to speak in Kannada first to even merit a response. Any form I need to fill up is in Kannada. I can still read fluently but why should it even be a criteria? why have these egos come up? Mind you, lest I be accused of targeting only Bengaluru, the situation is exactly the same in Mumbai (that I personally know of). Is it an outpouring of the pent-up frustration against disparity in society? A haves vs the have-nots?

When you have people in this forum, the educated and elite, justifying that learning the language is necessary / a pre-requisite to avoid such conflicts, I am forced to ponder - Why? What are we coming to?

Our movies, popular sub-culture all glorify the violent underdog. Violence is back to being seen as macho and cool sense as pusillanimity. Movies these days have goons with long unkempt hair brandishing swords and machetes. I am not stereotyping, but these are all seeping into the populace. A true man of war would be the first guy to abhor violence and advocate peace. It is only the emptyheads who glorify or are inspired by violence. (Note- I am not getting into political ideas like ahimsa etc, this is contemplation at a more personal level).

Road rage or otherwise, can (and should) never be justified. There is no justification, period!

Sorry for the rant, would like to hear others views, if any, on this.

[xotiq]

Originally Posted by handsofsteel

We shifted to Bengaluru (Bangalore, as it was known then), in 1992. Even in those days, we were told that its a must to know the language before you shift. As a schoolchild, I remember going to the local railway station and buying a book, "Learn Kannada in 30 days." A brilliant series for all languages that would teach you to read, write and even speak.

Road rage or otherwise, can (and should) never be justified. There is no justification, period!

Sorry for the rant, would like to hear others views, if any, on this.

Anyone travelling to North of India makes an effort to communicate in Hindi, as that is the local language. The advantage is that many states share a common language, whereas down south each state has its own, making it incumbent on the state to promote its language. The problem is that there are always folks who take this 'promotion' into their own hands, and they are the ones most visible and getting coverage- albeit for the wrong reasons.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by handsofsteel

When you have people in this forum, the educated and elite, justifying that learning the language is necessary / a pre-requisite to avoid such conflicts, I am forced to ponder - Why? What are we coming to?

The motivation of the thugs is simple enough, they just want a reason to prey on soft targets. It is unfortunate that several political outfits give them backing.

The motivations of the 'educated' folk in promoting this division based on language is different. It's a way of proclaiming superiority by claiming belonging to one particular group, whether it is "<x language> speakers", "old <city name> dwellers", "natives to <y state>", "z locality residents". The root of that is simple insecurity.

The problem is once you start dividing like that, we don't realize that some arbit dividing line can be drawn...where we will all be on the "wrong" side! How do you differentiate between someone who was born in a particular city and has spent their whole life there, but is not "native" to that state, over someone who has parents who are defined as "natives", but stays in a different part of the state? Who has more rights? It's a very slippery slope.

The only logical thing is to recognize that everyone has the right to move anywhere in the country and language is a means to unite, rather than divide.

It's a very simple test. If someone really claims to love the language and wants to propagate it, they will try and help other people learn the language. There are several helpful groups in Bangalore who are conducting classes for people who want to learn conversant Kannada. Those people really have pride in the language and the state. The rest just want to pick fights and divide, in the safety of a mob.

[HIGHWAY_PATROL]

Originally Posted by handsofsteel

When you have people in this forum, the educated and elite, justifying that learning the language is necessary / a pre-requisite to avoid such conflicts, I am forced to ponder - Why? What are we coming to?

...

Road rage or otherwise, can (and should) never be justified. There is no justification, period!

Sorry for the rant, would like to hear others views, if any, on this.

Institutional incompetence, infrastructural deficiency and cultural prejudice are bigger problems and outside a common man's complete control. I see there is an obvious practical advantage in learning the local language, atleast to some extent to give an impression that I have made an effort to assimilate myself, to salvage myself when faced with an unjustifiable act like road rage.

As the wise saying goes, 'It is easier to put on slippers than to carpet the whole world'.

[PreludeSH]

Originally Posted by handsofsteel

We shifted to Bengaluru (Bangalore, as it was known then), in 1992. Even in those days, we were told that its a must to know the language before you shift. As a schoolchild, I remember going to the local railway station and buying a book, "Learn Kannada in 30 days." A brilliant series for all languages that would teach you to read, write and even speak. We went to a kannadiga lady in the neighbourhood with the book and learnt the language (passable enough to understand movies, engage in basic conversation and read signboards and bus routes).

All fair arguments. People who want to take undue advantage will always use some excuse. We have so many in our country to pick from

I am not sure about Kannada only bus boards nor applications. In Banks I have seen Hindi and English which is kind of affront to our diversity and assumption about literacy. In Bengaluru and slowly in other parts of Karnataka, you have to talk in Hindi in barber shops, hotels, private public services etc. Maybe there is a pent up frustration from all of these.

There is also lack of respect from migrants for anything local and gets amplified and hyped when it comes to Bengaluru. As if there is no road rage, vandalism, murder for road rage etc in other parts of India. We are all Indians and have right to live the way we want anywhere in the country. But places, opportunities and resources do belong to or created by people at particular places. No one is doing a favour to anyone which some people think they are, economically.

Bengaluru has accepted and even assimilated to outside things and reverse was also true. Both sides have become little belligerent from decade or so. Its become very easy for migrants to come and not adjust at all even a wee bit and live happily.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by PreludeSH

Its become very easy for migrants to come and not adjust at all even a wee bit and live happily.

Asking the general forum, not trying to target this specific post:

* How does one define a 'migrant' to a city? Someone who moved 1 year ago? 5 years? 10 years? Someone who doesn't speak the local language? Speaks but can't read the local language?

* About it being easy to move and settle happily, shouldn't that be the case for any citizen anywhere in the country? Is that a bad thing? Don't people from a lot of cities move to other cities, even other countries? Should it be made difficult to move between cities in the same country?

* Again, what does 'adjusting' mean? Learn to speak the local language? Learn to read the local language? Learn to eat the local food? Accept that one has lesser rights (the right not to get beaten up on the road, for example!) than the locals?

Originally Posted by PreludeSH

In Bengaluru and slowly in other parts of Karnataka, you have to talk in Hindi in barber shops, hotels, private public services etc. Maybe there is a pent up frustration from all of these.

Where exactly are these establishments? I speak in Kannada everywhere I go in Bangalore and the other two towns I visit frequently in Karnataka, one in Coastal Karnataka and one in North Karnataka. Sure, if there is someone who doesn't understand Kannada at those places, I try English or Hindi. But I certainly I don't see anyone forcing me to speak in any particular language at those places. Some of my work at these 3 places involves interacting with public service providers, and certainly no one who works in a government office or public services office in any of those 3 places will speak to me in any other language but Kannada!

[Sk8r]

Originally Posted by am1m

* How does one define a 'migrant' to a city? Someone who moved 1 year ago? 5 years? 10 years? Someone who doesn't speak the local language? Speaks but can't read the local language?

Your post mirrors my pattern and got me thinking.

Am a native of Tamil Nadu but born and brought up in Andhra Pradesh. Came to Chennai for my MBA and have been working here for the past 7 years - so 9 years in Chennai so far.

I speak Tamil but cannot read or write Tamil as I had only Telugu and Hindi during our schooling days.

Now, am I a migrant in my own "mother tongue" state?

[tchsvy]

"Because of them the rents have become astronomical", "They take away our opportunities", "Because of them the average wages have gone down and we don't get paid as much as we used to", "Go to that <xyz> place and you will feel like an alien in your own land", "Their culture, OMG! ", "They're loud and in your face!", "They don't respect our culture", "They don't follow the rules/beliefs of the land", "They don't bother to learn the local language"...

Bengaluru to Bristal, Hyderabad to Honolulu, Chennai to Chicago, the same reasons, aren't they? It's always "us against them", at least that's how it's projected by political parties and groups.

"Where the world has not been broken up into fragments
By narrow domestic walls,
...
Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let my country awake"

[handsofsteel]

Originally Posted by PreludeSH

All fair arguments. People who want to take undue advantage will always use some excuse. We have so many in our country to pick from

Exactly my surprise at even the educated classes falling prey to such rabble rousing.

Originally Posted by PreludeSH

In Banks I have seen Hindi and English which is kind of affront to our diversity and assumption about literacy.

What!!? In the absence of one common language uniting us all, what's wrong in using English/ Hindi (both official languages) AND the local language? Why should it be viewed as an affront to anything?

Originally Posted by PreludeSH

In Bengaluru and slowly in other parts of Karnataka, you have to talk in Hindi in barber shops, hotels, private public services etc.

Maybe there is a pent up frustration from all of these.

There is also lack of respect from migrants for anything local and gets amplified and hyped when it comes to Bengaluru. As if there is no road rage, vandalism, murder for road rage etc in other parts of India.

I disagree with statement 1.
Pent up frustration? from what? Are we not going overboard with this "hurting my sentiments" nonsense which has been coined by the politicos?

I would like to know what is this "respect" so that I do not, even inadvertently, denigrate someone's local language/ culture.
I specifically mentioned Maharashtra in my post as another place where such jingoism/ xenophobia is being fanned so I, for one, am not insinuating that Bengaluru is the only place. Its spreading alarmingly and is no more an isolated/ regional incident.

Originally Posted by PreludeSH

We are all Indians and have right to live the way we want anywhere in the country. But places, opportunities and resources do belong to or created by people at particular places. No one is doing a favour to anyone which some people think they are, economically.

Well said, if one can't work/ move around freely in their own country, its a sad day.
Again, this first-right-of-refusal-of-a-local-resource-with-the-locals thing is another one of the frankenstein-ian concepts unleashed by the (who else) politicos.
Has someone actually said so or is this high handedness a perception?

Originally Posted by PreludeSH

Bengaluru has accepted and even assimilated to outside things and reverse was also true. Both sides have become little belligerent from decade or so. Its become very easy for migrants to come and not adjust at all even a wee bit and live happily.

Correct! to the first part. In fact, swalpa adjust maadi was one of the best things ever to come out of the state and has got featured in ad jingles also.
I am really taken aback (deliberately not using the word appalled) at the 'live happily' part of the last statement.
I am now starting to think, what can we do, in our individual capacities, to educate the common man. For I am in a profession where I can get transferred to any part of the country. God help my family and me!

[GTO]

Mod Note: Enough has been debated on the "outsider Vs insider" topic. Please put an end to that. Thanks for the support & understanding

[anand.shankar]

Originally Posted by svsantosh

Attachment 2587566

Even before I opened the thread I guessed the invisible part of the thread name.

Anyways, as a childhood Bangalore resident (Hosur native, every school life weekend was spent there) and as a student of Bangalore (masters), and as a bachelor and later on a married guy with a young family & happy resident of Bangalore for 20 years~ I would still Vouch for the City. Learnt the Language and I can proudly argue for hours in Kannada with all my peers, subs and bosses. Esp after work hours

Such trivial issues are there in every part of the world and not to be taken out of context. This is no different from any road rage incident and Law should take it as a individual issue rather than paint the whole city and the local population in a wrong way.

I would still dream to retire in Bangalore, outskirts may be, when I return to India.

Trivial issue ? Really ?

I wonder if the cops would show the same lack of interest in the car driver had run over a couple of those auto drivers. Hope our society doesn't end up like that, where we need to take law into our own hands.

[donlealdie]

I have also read some other account of another TBHP member encountering blatant vandalism in mid day. I hope the affected party has the good sense to install Front and Rear dash cameras.

[Quasar]

Both narrations of vandalism seem inaccurate & have multiple holes in them (as already pointed out by many).
Auto's registration number not noted despite such a long chase, argument & having caused damage? Another anomaly? Seems improbable.

An auto recently bumped into my rear left corner when I suddenly braked because a two wheeler in front of my left had changed lanes without warning, crossing in front from my left to right.
The auto guy signaled me, indicating some damage to his auto & asked me to pull up. We both moved to the side & parked, despite blocking movement of some of the traffic.

An argument ensued as I kept telling him that it wasn't my fault & that he had been dangerously close to me. A traffic cop appeared as traffic had piled up since only one lane was clear for traffic movement in the carriageway.

After hearing both sides, the traffic cop had waved me away to clear the traffic lane, even as the auto guy kept protesting. I got in & whizzed off!

[Anonymous guy]

Guys, though my opinion will seem very invalid, violent, unnecessary etc. but do tell if doing it is right and suggest some other method too.

If an auto driver or some burglar (basically bad guys) have cornered you, should you ram them with the vehicle (Salman Bhai mode )

Jokes apart, what should we do in such situations other than calling the police.