Minor accident - Major scare - My Swift

watashi75 · 4th August 2008, 17:21

The hand brakes were working so it cannot be a case of just wet brake pads. And even with wet brake pads, foot brake would have been more effective than hand brake.

dadu · 4th August 2008, 17:25

We have to await more details but points to this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadu

As you quoted that you were gliding, you just experienced Hydroplaning/ Aquaplaning.

Swift has front Disc brakes and they aren't affected by water much. As your brakes were working fine later, nothing wrong with your brake pads etc etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by watashi75

The hand brakes were working so it cannot be a case of just wet brake pads. And even with wet brake pads, foot brake would have been more effective than hand brake.

emkay456 · 5th August 2008, 11:56

Hopefully this weekend I will get it checked up from M.A.S.S.

tsk1979 · 5th August 2008, 11:59

I also suspect aquaplaning. With wet brake pads, the food brake would indeed be more effective since 4 wheels will be locked.
another cause could be spilled oil on road. Its very slippery and with rainwater it makes a deadly combo.

aaggoswami · 5th August 2008, 12:10

There are more factors:
1) Wet brake pads.
2) Condition of the road.

The fact that handbrake managed to stop the car means that the problem in the braking system. However, on normal dry roads if the brakes are working perfectly, then its matter of road condition.

lambuhere1 · 5th August 2008, 13:36

Wouldn't Engine Braking help in such situations, Just wondering !

srishiva · 5th August 2008, 14:03

Since he was moving slowly, I dont think its acquaplaning. You need some amount of standing water for this or thick sheet of water. Could be wet brakes or something wrong with the brakes.
Its a good practice to keep applying small pressure on brakes intermittently to dry the pads in wet conditions. Also brake much before you would normally do in dry conditions.

tsk1979 · 5th August 2008, 14:14

I see a lot of people mentioning wet brakes. However I am not aware of any heater mechanism in the hand brake of a the swift. If brake pads were wet, hand brake and foot brake would have same effect

srishiva · 5th August 2008, 14:19

Could be failure in the hydraulic pressure. It might be rectified with some pumping action. Again, try braking before you think it might be needed.

emkay456 · 12th August 2008, 17:18

I sent the car to SIMRAN Motors Panvel for the brake check ( I also got the 4th service done- issues will be posted separately). They did not find any problem with the brakes except getting everything cleaned thoroughly which improved the performance of the brakes. Seems lot of dirt accumulation on the pads etc. Not happy with the miniscule details provided by them except using the opportunity to fleece me on the labour charges. Will elaborate in my separate post.

mjothi · 12th August 2008, 21:26

So, it seems to be the reason as mentioned by most here, Wet brake pads due to rain. Did you tried it again or noticed it in normal days?

gowda79 · 12th August 2008, 22:07

1. Guys Brakes could be one reason.

2. As Emkay said his vehicle is 2yrs old and we will have to look into his tyre's wear and tear which could also lead for the improper braking, as the tyre could have just skidded along in a straight line ... correct me if i am wrong.

3. As i had a situation in a Swift driving at 120 + and braked hard after sighting a hump suddenly and vehicle kept moving atleast for 20-30mts in a straight line without moving to left or right... Tyres were new and car was 2-3months Old in a very good condition...

We cannot just blame the brakes....

Thad E Ginathom · 12th August 2008, 23:58

I think most of us know the sensation of skidding, which is quite different to brake failure, surely?

Did the peddle have no feeling of resistance? but just go straight to the floor? In which case brake failure certainly. Happened to me once; breaking would come back by pumping the pedal, but far too dangerous to drive and I called an engineer to where I was.

Aquaplaning really needs speed and standing water: it will not happen without both. It is like being on ice; quite the opposite to skidding on dry road or grit, everything will go quiet. It is scary.

We brakes do dry, of course, which could explain why the foorbreak failed to stop the car but the handbrake didn't: simply, by the time the handbrake was used, the brakes had dried out.

One of Thad's Dad's lessons to me, in my youth: after driving through water, always immediately check the brakes and dry them by applying gently while still accelerating.

Swiftron · 13th August 2008, 11:48

I am not expert in this hence pardon my lame question. But what is the best way to maintain the breakpads in monsoon season. Also holding the brake driving for sometime will damage the breakpads right? I mean not by doing once or twice but what about people who have to travel in the rain everyday?

emkay456 · 18th August 2008, 13:21

Think I have made it clear that the sensation was not of skidding with tires screeching or anything. It was a gradual roll down the slope feeling with brakes floored. The tyres were certified to be in good condition. If you take note that I have only clocked 10,000 kms in 2 years the road worthiness (or unworthiness) of the vehicle is not proportional to the years.

4th August 2008, 17:21	#16
watashi75 BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 518 Thanked: 12 Times	The hand brakes were working so it cannot be a case of just wet brake pads. And even with wet brake pads, foot brake would have been more effective than hand brake.
	() Thanks

5th August 2008, 11:56	#18
emkay456 BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 388 Thanked: 7 Times	Hopefully this weekend I will get it checked up from M.A.S.S.
	() Thanks

5th August 2008, 11:59	#19
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,825 Times View My Garage	I also suspect aquaplaning. With wet brake pads, the food brake would indeed be more effective since 4 wheels will be locked. another cause could be spilled oil on road. Its very slippery and with rainwater it makes a deadly combo.
	() Thanks

5th August 2008, 12:10	#20
aaggoswami Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Vadodara Posts: 4,982 Thanked: 2,931 Times	There are more factors: 1) Wet brake pads. 2) Condition of the road. The fact that handbrake managed to stop the car means that the problem in the braking system. However, on normal dry roads if the brakes are working perfectly, then its matter of road condition.
	() Thanks

5th August 2008, 13:36	#21
lambuhere1 BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: @ Driver's Seat @ Posts: 708 Thanked: 106 Times	Wouldn't Engine Braking help in such situations, Just wondering !
	() Thanks

5th August 2008, 14:03	#22
srishiva Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 4,375 Thanked: 2,256 Times	Since he was moving slowly, I dont think its acquaplaning. You need some amount of standing water for this or thick sheet of water. Could be wet brakes or something wrong with the brakes. Its a good practice to keep applying small pressure on brakes intermittently to dry the pads in wet conditions. Also brake much before you would normally do in dry conditions. Last edited by srishiva : 5th August 2008 at 14:08.
	() Thanks

5th August 2008, 14:14	#23
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,825 Times View My Garage	I see a lot of people mentioning wet brakes. However I am not aware of any heater mechanism in the hand brake of a the swift. If brake pads were wet, hand brake and foot brake would have same effect
	() Thanks

5th August 2008, 14:19	#24
srishiva Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 4,375 Thanked: 2,256 Times	Could be failure in the hydraulic pressure. It might be rectified with some pumping action. Again, try braking before you think it might be needed.
	() Thanks

12th August 2008, 17:18	#25
emkay456 BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 388 Thanked: 7 Times	I sent the car to SIMRAN Motors Panvel for the brake check ( I also got the 4th service done- issues will be posted separately). They did not find any problem with the brakes except getting everything cleaned thoroughly which improved the performance of the brakes. Seems lot of dirt accumulation on the pads etc. Not happy with the miniscule details provided by them except using the opportunity to fleece me on the labour charges. Will elaborate in my separate post.
	() Thanks

12th August 2008, 21:26	#26
mjothi Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 3,287 Thanked: 231 Times View My Garage	So, it seems to be the reason as mentioned by most here, Wet brake pads due to rain. Did you tried it again or noticed it in normal days?
	() Thanks

12th August 2008, 22:07	#27
gowda79 Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 1,478 Thanked: 194 Times View My Garage	1. Guys Brakes could be one reason. 2. As Emkay said his vehicle is 2yrs old and we will have to look into his tyre's wear and tear which could also lead for the improper braking, as the tyre could have just skidded along in a straight line ... correct me if i am wrong. 3. As i had a situation in a Swift driving at 120 + and braked hard after sighting a hump suddenly and vehicle kept moving atleast for 20-30mts in a straight line without moving to left or right... Tyres were new and car was 2-3months Old in a very good condition... We cannot just blame the brakes....
	() Thanks

12th August 2008, 23:58	#28
Thad E Ginathom Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 10,999 Thanked: 26,416 Times	I think most of us know the sensation of skidding, which is quite different to brake failure, surely? Did the peddle have no feeling of resistance? but just go straight to the floor? In which case brake failure certainly. Happened to me once; breaking would come back by pumping the pedal, but far too dangerous to drive and I called an engineer to where I was. Aquaplaning really needs speed and standing water: it will not happen without both. It is like being on ice; quite the opposite to skidding on dry road or grit, everything will go quiet. It is scary. We brakes do dry, of course, which could explain why the foorbreak failed to stop the car but the handbrake didn't: simply, by the time the handbrake was used, the brakes had dried out. One of Thad's Dad's lessons to me, in my youth: after driving through water, always immediately check the brakes and dry them by applying gently while still accelerating.
	() Thanks

13th August 2008, 11:48	#29
Swiftron BHPian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 53 Thanked: Once	I am not expert in this hence pardon my lame question. But what is the best way to maintain the breakpads in monsoon season. Also holding the brake driving for sometime will damage the breakpads right? I mean not by doing once or twice but what about people who have to travel in the rain everyday?
	() Thanks

18th August 2008, 13:21	#30
emkay456 BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 388 Thanked: 7 Times	Think I have made it clear that the sensation was not of skidding with tires screeching or anything. It was a gradual roll down the slope feeling with brakes floored. The tyres were certified to be in good condition. If you take note that I have only clocked 10,000 kms in 2 years the road worthiness (or unworthiness) of the vehicle is not proportional to the years.
	() Thanks