Fog lamps without fog

dushmish · 27th February 2009, 16:00

I have observed in Mumbai that many (most) people drive their vehicles with fog lamps switched on even when there is no fog. For that matter, there is no fog in Mumbai ever. It gets so irritating for the on coming drivers as the fog lamps throw light that is piercing in eyes

. I feel like getting down and telling them to switch the lamps off . Santros, Zens, Scorpios, Safaris, Swifts, Indicas, you name it, if they have fog lamps on the vehicle, they'll switch them on.

Do they realise it consumes more fuel. Maybe that will help realisation dawn on them. How do you think we can get such people to stop using fog lamps when there is no fog.

greenhorn · 27th February 2009, 16:12

I find fog lamps add visiblity , especially peripheral visiblity, and it sure beats driving around with the high beam...

gd1418 · 27th February 2009, 16:19

I hope you are not mistaking between high beamers and fog lamps. Fog lamps can not be piercing to eyes. They are designed to illuminate the side and front lower portion of the road. I always drive within the city limits with the fog lamps and have never been flooded with complaints.

And pray tell me, how does driving with fog lamps on consumes more fuel..?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dushmish

I have observed in Mumbai that many (most) people drive their vehicles with fog lamps switched on even when there is no fog. For that matter, there is no fog in Mumbai ever. It gets so irritating for the on coming drivers as the fog lamps throw light that is piercing in eyes

. I feel like getting down and telling them to switch the lamps off . Santros, Zens, Scorpios, Safaris, Swifts, Indicas, you name it, if they have fog lamps on the vehicle, they'll switch them on.

Do they realise it consumes more fuel. Maybe that will help realisation dawn on them. How do you think we can get such people to stop using fog lamps when there is no fog.

dushmish · 27th February 2009, 16:51

High beam is CRIMINAL within city limits. Yes GD you are right, fog lamps are meant to give diffused light but frequency of the light emitted is visible to deeper cones in the eyes (for higher visibility of such lamps). Just like the sensors for red colour are deeper cones in eyes and therefore all danger signals are red. So though fog lamps emit difussed light, the eyes are more sensitive to them.

What Wikipedia has to say about fog lamps - Automotive lighting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fog lamps

A pair of yellow fog lamps

Front fog lamps provide a wide, bar-shaped beam of light with a sharp cutoff at the top, and are generally aimed and mounted low. They may be either white or seletive yellow. They are intended for use at low speed to increase the illumination directed towards the road surface and verges in conditions of poor visibility due to rain, fog, dust or snow. As such, they are often most effectively used in place of dipped-beam headlamps, reducing the glareback from fog or falling snow, although the legality varies by jurisdiction of using front fog lamps without low beam headlamps.
Use of the front fog lamps when visibility is not seriously reduced is often prohibited (for example in the UK), as they can cause increased glare to other drivers, particularly in wet pavement conditions, as well as harming the driver's own vision due to excessive foreground illumination.
The respective purposes of front fog lamps and driving lamps are often confused, due in part to the misconception that fog lamps are necessarily selective yellow, while any auxiliary lamp that makes white light is a driving lamp. Automakers and aftermarket parts and accessories suppliers frequently refer interchangeably to "fog lamps" and "driving lamps" (or "fog/driving lamps"). In most countries, weather conditions rarely necessitate the use of fog lamps, and there is no legal requirement for them, so their primary purpose is frequently cosmetic. They are often available as optional extras or only on higher trim levels of many cars. Studies have shown that in North America more people inappropriately use their fog lamps in dry weather than use them properly in poor weather.

An excellent description on why fog lamps are yellow is given here. Fog lights

And this one tells to use the fog lamps VERY SELECTIVELY Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply

Also the people I am complaining about are those who drive with all four lamps on and some time on highbeam. This on nicely illuminated roads.

Coming to fuel efficiency - the more electrical gadgets you use, the lesser your fuel efficiency.

SS-Traveller · 27th February 2009, 17:03

I also feel that driving with fog lamps on (both front and rear) in clear weather dazzles the other driver more than is necessary. On the other hand, these same gentlement will NOT use their fog lamps when there's dense fog - then they switch on the hazard lights, which are more irritating and mesmeric to other drivers.

A lot of countries, including UK where fog is a big problem, have rules against driving with either front or rear fog lamps on during clear weather. Drivers are expected to switch off fog lamps when visibility is greater than 100m.

bblost · 27th February 2009, 17:05

I drive a Wagon R and ride a bike as well.

I have no extra lights installed on either of them.

Find it extremely irritating when people use Hi beams and/or fog lights.
It hurts my eyes and I wish they would not do that.

rudrah · 27th February 2009, 17:10

For me, I drive with fog lamps on in City and Highway however if the city roads are fully illuminated by street lights then I make sure the head lights are in parking mode and fog lamps on!

I never drive with high beams in same above condition. If i find someone with high beams facing on me unnecessorily I keep flashing them to let them know its irritating me the way it would be to you now!

I'm still unable to understand how come using electricals like lights consume more Fuel. If that is so, I would have to switch off my ICE while driving in day n night!

Can you elaborate how does that work?

dushmish · 27th February 2009, 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudrah

I'm still unable to understand how come using electricals like lights consume more Fuel. If that is so, I would have to switch off my ICE while driving in day n night!

Can you elaborate how does that work?

Class 6 physics - energy can not be created, it just changes form. Lets keep nuclear physics out of this as cars don't run on urnaium yet. So for every unit of fuel burnt there is a certain amount of energy produced as heat. This heat energy is used to push the piston and then the crank chaft and ultimately the wheel. There is a lot of energy loss that happens in the process. All the sound generated is a loss, all the heat that escapes is a loss. The heat energy which has been converted to kinetic energy is used to run an alternator or dynamo to generate current for running the electricals on the car. The more electricals you run, wipers, lights, more lights, ICE, etc. the more energy is consumed.

Total energy produced per unit fuel is fixed. If you divert the energy to run systems other than wheels, your car will run for lesser kilometres. Meaning lesser fuel economy.

The effect though is not significant to be noticed. You can only notice this during rains, when all your electricals are sucking energy from every drop of fuel burnt.

tazmaan · 27th February 2009, 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudrah

For me, I drive with fog lamps on in City and Highway however if the city roads are fully illuminated by street lights then I make sure the head lights are in parking mode and fog lamps on!

I never drive with high beams in same above condition. If i find someone with high beams facing on me unnecessorily I keep flashing them to let them know its irritating me the way it would be to you now!

I'm still unable to understand how come using electricals like lights consume more Fuel. If that is so, I would have to switch off my ICE while driving in day n night!

Can you elaborate how does that work?

+1 , please elaborate on how using electricals like fog lamps, ICE effect the efficiency of the car. In that case the day time efficiency and night time efficiency of a vehicle should differ right?

Ok just read a reply commenting on the same: The energy produced by the modern age alternators is more than that is required to run all the electricals on a car. Also when the consumption is more power is used from the battery and when the consumption is less battery is recharged. This is my understanding as an engineer experts please comment.

bblost · 27th February 2009, 17:33

The point is this thread is
Fog lamps without fog.

Can we stick to that.

How about a poll.

Fog lights in the absence of fog:
Good idea.
It hurts my eyes, please don't do it.

dushmish · 27th February 2009, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by tazmaan

+1 , please elaborate on how using electricals like fog lamps, ICE effect the efficiency of the car. In that case the day time efficiency and night time efficiency of a vehicle should differ right?

Right Tazman! Day time efficiency and night time efficiency are different. The least milage is on a rainy night.

As BBlog rightly said, the thread is about not using fog lamps without fog

, let us stick to that. A poll though is not a good idea as it is not something that can be decided democratically. It is about the correct practice and knowing the science behind it.

I say, it is not an acceptable practice to use fog lamps when there is no fog. Let us dissuade people from doing so, at least by talking amongst ourselves.

greenhorn · 27th February 2009, 17:44

I think what is normally referred to in india as fog lamps are better classified as auxillary driving lamps. very few cars in india come with proper fog lamps

revtech · 27th February 2009, 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenhorn

I think what is normally referred to in india as fog lamps are better classified as auxillary driving lamps. very few cars in india come with proper fog lamps

exactly what i was just going to type.the so called fog lamps that cars come fitted with are just an extra pair of lights.

Rev

Ps: i dont see anything wrong specially if they are focussed properly.I have not yet come across a pair that blinds the eyes.

Samir Taheer · 27th February 2009, 18:23

In the UK its illegal to drive with your fog lamps and dip or high beam on.

I think Dipped beam is there for a reason, use it. Fog lamps adjusted badly are annoying... But dipped beams adjusted badly can be just as annoying.

lordofgondor · 27th February 2009, 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by bblost

Fog lights in the absence of fog:
Good idea.
It hurts my eyes, please don't do it.

I would vote for the second. On a clear day, there's no need to use fog lamps. Be it city or highway. And yeah, they definitely add to the glare especially since the ones with fog lamps on usually also have their headlights on high beams.

I myself have fog lamps installed but use them only when I encounter fog or while driving in mountains when light is low.

27th February 2009, 16:00	#1
dushmish BHPian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Mumbai Posts: 418 Thanked: 82 Times View My Garage	Fog lamps without fog I have observed in Mumbai that many (most) people drive their vehicles with fog lamps switched on even when there is no fog. For that matter, there is no fog in Mumbai ever. It gets so irritating for the on coming drivers as the fog lamps throw light that is piercing in eyes. I feel like getting down and telling them to switch the lamps off . Santros, Zens, Scorpios, Safaris, Swifts, Indicas, you name it, if they have fog lamps on the vehicle, they'll switch them on. Do they realise it consumes more fuel. Maybe that will help realisation dawn on them. How do you think we can get such people to stop using fog lamps when there is no fog.
	() Thanks

27th February 2009, 16:12	#2
greenhorn Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: KL-01 Posts: 7,745 Thanked: 4,397 Times View My Garage	I find fog lamps add visiblity , especially peripheral visiblity, and it sure beats driving around with the high beam...
	(1) Thanks

27th February 2009, 16:51	#4
dushmish BHPian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Mumbai Posts: 418 Thanked: 82 Times View My Garage	High beam is CRIMINAL within city limits. Yes GD you are right, fog lamps are meant to give diffused light but frequency of the light emitted is visible to deeper cones in the eyes (for higher visibility of such lamps). Just like the sensors for red colour are deeper cones in eyes and therefore all danger signals are red. So though fog lamps emit difussed light, the eyes are more sensitive to them. What Wikipedia has to say about fog lamps - Automotive lighting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Fog lamps A pair of yellow fog lamps Front fog lamps provide a wide, bar-shaped beam of light with a sharp cutoff at the top, and are generally aimed and mounted low. They may be either white or seletive yellow. They are intended for use at low speed to increase the illumination directed towards the road surface and verges in conditions of poor visibility due to rain, fog, dust or snow. As such, they are often most effectively used in place of dipped-beam headlamps, reducing the glareback from fog or falling snow, although the legality varies by jurisdiction of using front fog lamps without low beam headlamps. Use of the front fog lamps when visibility is not seriously reduced is often prohibited (for example in the UK), as they can cause increased glare to other drivers, particularly in wet pavement conditions, as well as harming the driver's own vision due to excessive foreground illumination. The respective purposes of front fog lamps and driving lamps are often confused, due in part to the misconception that fog lamps are necessarily selective yellow, while any auxiliary lamp that makes white light is a driving lamp. Automakers and aftermarket parts and accessories suppliers frequently refer interchangeably to "fog lamps" and "driving lamps" (or "fog/driving lamps"). In most countries, weather conditions rarely necessitate the use of fog lamps, and there is no legal requirement for them, so their primary purpose is frequently cosmetic. They are often available as optional extras or only on higher trim levels of many cars. Studies have shown that in North America more people inappropriately use their fog lamps in dry weather than use them properly in poor weather. An excellent description on why fog lamps are yellow is given here. Fog lights And this one tells to use the fog lamps VERY SELECTIVELY Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply Also the people I am complaining about are those who drive with all four lamps on and some time on highbeam. This on nicely illuminated roads. Coming to fuel efficiency - the more electrical gadgets you use, the lesser your fuel efficiency. Last edited by dushmish : 27th February 2009 at 17:06. Reason: got more information to post.
	() Thanks

27th February 2009, 17:03	#5
SS-Traveller Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: New Delhi Posts: 8,164 Thanked: 27,139 Times View My Garage	I also feel that driving with fog lamps on (both front and rear) in clear weather dazzles the other driver more than is necessary. On the other hand, these same gentlement will NOT use their fog lamps when there's dense fog - then they switch on the hazard lights, which are more irritating and mesmeric to other drivers. A lot of countries, including UK where fog is a big problem, have rules against driving with either front or rear fog lamps on during clear weather. Drivers are expected to switch off fog lamps when visibility is greater than 100m.
	() Thanks

27th February 2009, 17:05	#6
bblost Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 11,008 Thanked: 15,333 Times View My Garage	I drive a Wagon R and ride a bike as well. I have no extra lights installed on either of them. Find it extremely irritating when people use Hi beams and/or fog lights. It hurts my eyes and I wish they would not do that.
	() Thanks

27th February 2009, 17:10	#7
rudrah BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Navi Mumbai Posts: 644 Thanked: 47 Times View My Garage	For me, I drive with fog lamps on in City and Highway however if the city roads are fully illuminated by street lights then I make sure the head lights are in parking mode and fog lamps on! I never drive with high beams in same above condition. If i find someone with high beams facing on me unnecessorily I keep flashing them to let them know its irritating me the way it would be to you now! I'm still unable to understand how come using electricals like lights consume more Fuel. If that is so, I would have to switch off my ICE while driving in day n night! Can you elaborate how does that work? Last edited by rudrah : 27th February 2009 at 17:11.
	() Thanks

27th February 2009, 17:33	#10
bblost Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 11,008 Thanked: 15,333 Times View My Garage	The point is this thread is Fog lamps without fog. Can we stick to that. How about a poll. Fog lights in the absence of fog: Good idea. It hurts my eyes, please don't do it.
	() Thanks

27th February 2009, 17:44	#12
greenhorn Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: KL-01 Posts: 7,745 Thanked: 4,397 Times View My Garage	I think what is normally referred to in india as fog lamps are better classified as auxillary driving lamps. very few cars in india come with proper fog lamps
	() Thanks

27th February 2009, 18:23	#14
Samir Taheer BHPian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: London & Pune Posts: 459 Thanked: 278 Times	In the UK its illegal to drive with your fog lamps and dip or high beam on. I think Dipped beam is there for a reason, use it. Fog lamps adjusted badly are annoying... But dipped beams adjusted badly can be just as annoying.
	() Thanks