[WhiteKnight]

Originally Posted by carboy

People who Swifts want to ban Maruti800s & under.
People who own M800's want to ban Nanos & under.
People who own Nanos want to ban Autos.

Everyone wants to reduce other people's pollution.

A very sensible post. Thank you

Every citizen should contribute to the cause rather than preaching. Some other posts on this thread remain me of a certain country talking World peace and Nuclear non-proliferation sitting on largest arsenal of N-Bombs.

Hypocrisy!!

[Raccoon]

^^^ I contribute by keeping my vehicles in the best possible state of tune and maintenance so that they pollute to the minimum possible extent. None of my vehicles would be polluting anywhere even close to what those 2 stroke ricks do. Does that help me when the ricks pump their toxic fumes into my lungs? No. So I fail to see much logic in your statement.

[bmw_m5_titus]

Originally Posted by Raccoon

This part will absolutely not work. As I mentioned above, adulterated fuel and used oil along with general bad maintenance will see to it that it does not. They will just use good fuel and oil to get the certificate. Once it passes, they will go back to what they were using for the next 6 months.

Raccoon, Yeah you are right! Anybody has any idea what the HC and CO limit is for these diesel autos?

[vinaydas]

why only two stroke auto's ?
please Eliminate the concept of Auto's in Bangalore
Right now i think it would be a bit difficult for some people especially women.
But i think after the metro project is completed they can give thought to banning autos in Bangalore At least in the city limits

[carboy]

Originally Posted by Raccoon

^^^ I contribute by keeping my vehicles in the best possible state of tune and maintenance so that they pollute to the minimum possible extent. None of my vehicles would be polluting anywhere even close to what those 2 stroke ricks do. Does that help me when the ricks pump their toxic fumes into my lungs? No. So I fail to see much logic in your statement.

There is a certain guy who cycles & walks & causes no pollution at all on
the roads. Does it help him when I pump my exhaust(even if I just serviced my car on Thursday) on those same roads?

[Raccoon]

Well, I cycle and walk too. So how does your statement help me?

Though I would like to cycle more, its getting increasingly difficult. Why? Due to vehicles like autorickshaws. With the sheer amount of smoke they emit, its extremely difficult to even breathe properly to be able to cycle. So you can say they are not only polluting themselves, but causing me to pollute more by forcing me to use a car/bike instead.

Any which way you look at it, attempts to defend those smoke bombs are untenable.

And come to think of it, I don't think any person in the city can get my just by walking/cycling. At some point he will travel in an automobile and contribute to pollution. Yes, he may pollute to a lesser/greater extent, but the point is being missed. Let me put it crudely - is your vehicle choking the people in the one behind it? At least mine aren't.

[arunmur]

Originally Posted by carboy

There is a certain guy who cycles & walks & causes no pollution at all on
the roads. Does it help him when I pump my exhaust(even if I just serviced my car on Thursday) on those same roads?

There was one interesting review done by some UK magazine which said if people stopped using their cars and walk to work what pollutions would they save.

In UK the result was an user using small diesel cars pollute less. The reason is that when you start walking you also eat more. Now if that guy was a guy who could afford a car would prefer to eat rich meals. The meals too has a cost of growing, transporting, packaging, cooking and waste.

So simply choosing to cycle you dont pollute less.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by arunmur

There was one interesting review done by some UK magazine which said if people stopped using their cars and walk to work what pollutions would they save.

In UK the result was an user using small diesel cars pollute less. The reason is that when you start walking you also eat more. Now if that guy was a guy who could afford a car would prefer to eat rich meals. The meals too has a cost of growing, transporting, packaging, cooking and waste.

So simply choosing to cycle you dont pollute less.

If we want to go down that path, then ...

The more rickshaw fume we breath, the more likely we die early & thus
reduce our overall carbon footprint.

[arunmur]

Originally Posted by carboy

If we want to go down that path, then ...

The more rickshaw fume we breath, the more likely we die early & thus
reduce our overall carbon footprint.

Actually Population control is something expected out of India and China as part of the greening the world.

Ill add one more thing if you consider fumes, auto fumes are mainly made of CO and unburnt HC which is dangerous in closed room but safe in open spaces. Further the HC causes Smog which kind of causes eye irritation to Lung cancer.

Whats equally dangerous and never seen is 10-100micron particles(black smoke) released by all diesel vehicles in the City BMTC, Private buses, all the Sumo's, the Taxi's and Private cars. This is one of the causes of lung based diseases.

Going further American scientists claim that one of the main reasons for iceberg melting faster is diesel soot which gets carried off from the nearby places and gets settled on ice. Being black they absorb heat faster than the ice normally does. Sounds pretty logical to me, even more logical if you consider the south east winds pass through majority of cities before they reach Himalayas where they meet resistance and turn around south again. This is considered as a more important source of ice melting than earth going 1deg hotter.

How are we addressing this? Ban Diesel cars like Delhi wanted to? How many of you would like that? Most cars in Europe come with DPF(Diesel Particulate Filter) to solve this. Is there any sign of this stuff coming here? To my understanding it will remain as one of those optionals like ABS and Airbags, unless some government authority steps on it.

If you ask me one of the biggest reasons for pollution in Bangalore is poor or even pathetic planning. Who is going to fine them. When are we ever going to get roads that are wide enough to handle the traffic. As i see it Upcoming areas in Bangalore has even smaller roads than the existing ones. First thing we need to do to reduce pollution is to raise our road area from 8% to about 20% which is world standard. Banning Auto's is not even comparable to this kind of savings. Infact Banning autos might give raise increase in cars and two wheelers in city.

[Raccoon]

Originally Posted by carboy

If we want to go down that path, then ...

The more rickshaw fume we breath, the more likely we die early & thus
reduce our overall carbon footprint.

The problem is its not necessary that it simply just kills us off early. More likely it will make you sicker, weaker, etc. And quality of life is far more important than quantity.

Originally Posted by arunmur

Actually Population control is something expected out of India and China as part of the greening the world...

It is a given that every one is creating pollution this way or that. But again, let me make this simpler - what is the rationale behind spending so much on (like catcons, pollution norms like Euro III, etc., etc) only for private vehicles and exempting commercial vehicles (like rickshaws)? Why do I have to pay so much higher for all this when a huge number of other vehicles (like rickshaws) go around belching poison into all of us?

That said, the population problem is indeed the most fundamental problem. And this is not even talked about in India...

[arunmur]

Originally Posted by Raccoon

It is a given that every one is creating pollution this way or that. But again, let me make this simpler - what is the rationale behind spending so much on (like catcons, pollution norms like Euro III, etc., etc) only for private vehicles and exempting commercial vehicles (like rickshaws)? Why do I have to pay so much higher for all this when a huge number of other vehicles (like rickshaws) go around belching poison into all of us?

Perfectly said. I too want them to reduce the pollution they cause. I am just questioning the technique used. My questions to people implementing it are

Is banning 2-stroke Auto's going to work first?
Is it really going to reduce pollution?
Is there a technique we can use so that it really will work?
Is this some political stunt rather than some method to really reduce pollution?
How many people's quality of life are going to be affected ?
Is there something we can do so that their lives are also not affected?
Is it the only source of problem?
and finally Is there any other means to reduce pollution?

I have given the diesel car example just to make you understand how you would be impacted if KSPCB banned all diesel cars in Bangalore? Thats the kind of stuff they are trying to do with the Autos.

Karnataka did not even successfully ban 15+ year old commercial vehicles in City. Thats more of a hazzard than Autos.

My solution would be to look at elimination of Auto's in a phased manner and bring the bar up slowly. Every one is still going to pay but atleast we will finally have what we want, rather than a rash move to ban all Autos which might not really work.

Can the government start by giving some tax redumption(better yet incentives for Green city vehicles) to CNG/LPG powered Taxis or atleast CNG powered Autos?

Can we start by stopping giving out certificate of registrations to city transport vehicles older than 10 years and non worthy road vehicles?

Can we start by speeding up the projects in city and charge heavy penalty for delays?

Can we start by improving the designs of new layouts that are coming up?

[Gansan]

We can all start by not taking out our car/bike for at least one day every week, and walking/using public transport on that day.

We can start by minimizing the use of our vehicles on the other days of the week.

I read many instances of out of city TBHP meets for which all 15 guys attending take one car each. This is avoidable.

Autos are owned by vested interests with political/police clout. They will see that the ban never comes in to effect. The guy who drives it on the street is only a daily wage earner, the proverbial arrow, while the bow remains invisible! We can avoid using them as much as possible, and dissuade people known to us also to do the same. If the demand tapers off, the autos will automatically disappear.

[kuttapan]

Originally Posted by Gansan

Autos are owned by vested interests with political/police clout. They will see that the ban never comes in to effect. The guy who drives it on the street is only a daily wage earner, the proverbial arrow, while the bow remains invisible! We can avoid using them as much as possible, and dissuade people known to us also to do the same. If the demand tapers off, the autos will automatically disappear.

You have some very Utopian notions. While you are right about the clout etc., India has not advanced to a stage where everyone can use taxi's. So, the autos help fill the void for people who do not have private transport but need the convenience of one, at times. Therefore, they cannot be dispensed with, in totality.

Please do not get me wrong, I wholeheartedly agree with you when you talk about using public transport, walking etc., but there are instances when you need the Autos. They are an essential menace.

[darklord]

Govt to ban 2-stroke engine autos in city

BENGALURU: If the government has its way, autorickshaws that run on two-stroke engines will soon be off Bengaluru roads. A proposal has been sent to the environment and ecology department to ban such autorickshaws which are considered the worst polluters among vehicles.

Transport minister Ramalinga Reddy told the legislative council on Tuesday that 30,000 two-stroke engine auto s are operating in the city.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/46764541.cms