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Old 26th August 2019, 17:22   #17491
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Default Re: Bengaluru: Apathy towards humans and Law

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Originally Posted by Guna View Post
I have heard things like 'IT guys' have made the city expensive or 'Kannadigas are unable to get jobs' etc.
Ah yes, I have heard that often too.

"IT guys have made everything expensive"

Usually heard from landlord neighbors who were very quick to build 2-3 (unsanctioned) extra floors on their small plot houses, and charge high rents for those floors to those same 'IT guys'.

"Locals unable to get jobs"

This is actually nothing new. I've heard this from local shop owners even as a kid in the 90s. Usually complaining about the new shop owners from Kerala in the neighborhood. Who do the great crime of keeping their shops open for longer, ensuring that everything is stocked well, never making a fuss about giving change, doing free home delivery, basically who run their shops more efficiently and strangely attract more business than the local shop owners!

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Old 26th August 2019, 17:39   #17492
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Default Re: Bengaluru: Apathy towards humans and Law

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Originally Posted by ShivrajG View Post
We have recently moved to Bangalore in Aug 2019, I heard a lot of good things about Bengaluru and its people. We moved from Pune and Weather treated us with an awe & we loved the environment.
Well, in which state this does not happen? Then why single down on Bengaluru? Trust me this was never the case and has become like this in the last decade or so. There are various factors and I do not want to go that path! Having said that, when you come to another place, before making any opinions, it is better to understand the ground realities and also exercise some patience and perseverance and avoid getting into any fights or arguments. At times ignorance works and then you can always reason out the logic later. Especially when you are with family all the more better to avoid confrontations.

This situation can happen to folks even visiting other states for vacation. At the end of the day it all boils down to how capable we are in trying to avoid getting into such incidents rationally!!! Enjoy your stay here and not all locals are bad :-)

Last edited by sumathindra : 26th August 2019 at 17:40. Reason: edits
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Old 26th August 2019, 17:54   #17493
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Default Re: Bengaluru: Apathy towards humans and Law

I have been driving in Bangalore roads for more than two decades. I have never got into a road rage incident so far. I follow very simple and basic rules.


Drive in the most defensive fashion. Always give way to others even if you have the right of way
Never argue or make eye contact with anyone.
If faced with aggressive behaviour say sorry, even if you are in the right
Never hurl abuses in non-local languages. This can lead to explosive situations one may not be able to anticipate.
Be respectful to local culture and language.
Keep repeating to yourself, these skirmishes on the road are not worth your time and safety
Leave scratches and dents to insurance. Accidents are meant to happen. No point in fighting out on roads.


I think this thread can be moved to the road rage thread.
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Old 26th August 2019, 17:55   #17494
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Default Re: Bengaluru: Apathy towards humans and Law

Shivraj - Sorry to hear about your ordeal. But, regionalism exists and it exists in Pune as well, I have faced it.

Sad part is, it exists almost everywhere. And while, we the common people don't do this, uneducated people are very easy to lure citing regionalism and religion divide [different things, but I hope you get the picture].

I hope, you also know how few political parties gain mileage in MH, in the name of regionalism. I am sure it is true for other places, but sometimes violence takes precedence.

Lets end it here, your incident can happen anywhere, in any part of India or the world, lets not paint everyone with the same picture.
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Old 26th August 2019, 17:58   #17495
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Default Re: Bengaluru: Apathy towards humans and Law

I guess I painted the picture in a wrong manner. There are good and bad people everywhere. People can get into road rage, fights, extortion attempts anywhere in this country. My narration was to convey my ordeal where local public (passerby) started to beat me up for no reason (my assumption is I was not able to convey my side). I am bound to make that assumption that language was not on my side and nor did they think twice while beating a Man with a lady cornered by 3 men. I could've taken down those 3 men easily (I am equally aggressive with my built) had not those passerby started punching my head from behind. Thats not what you see regularly on a busy highway. That may be a case where local village people gathered and made a scene. Unrelated people coming and hitting me thats what worries me. As I said earlier as well I have seen fights, I have seen mob fights but this ? This was a very different experience.
secondly Cops atleast shouldve gone easy on a outsider and atleast taken a cognizance of the fact the the other party was drunk ? but no.

I strictly do not consider Kannada people to be rude or violent because I have so many lovely friends who hail from this state. I am just stating my fact! no offense!
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Old 26th August 2019, 18:40   #17496
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Default Re: Bengaluru: Apathy towards humans and Law

In the early 90s, as a young professional I was sent to Bombay for a week long training. It was the first time I was travelling in Bombay local trains. My office was near Church Gate, and my stay was in Andheri. That evening I climbed the train at Church gate. As I was trying to get down in Andheri, suddenly many people near the door started pushing me back forcefully. They were abusing me in Marathi too, which I didn't understand. But being a strong fellow with martial arts training, I was able to muscle my way (I didn't hit anyone) by force and jumped out as the train started again. As I landed on the platform, one of the guys on the train caught hold of my backpack and started pulling me back. I could have fallen back and right under the train. Fortunately, his grip got loose, or may be he let go. So I survived.

I had no access to Internet then, where I could have posted my judgment on all Bombay citizens. Instead, I narrated my experience at the office next day. They all laughed and said I got on the Virar train, as if what happened to me was perfectly alright. I then understood it as the quick of the place, and avoided Virar trains for the rest of the week. I didn't bother judging Virar citizens either.

What happened to you was an unfortunate case of fender bender with drunks who quickly manipulated the fact you couldn't speak the language, and got everybody stacked against you. Now the entire Bangalore population stands accused of xenophobia based on this incident.
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Old 26th August 2019, 18:53   #17497
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Default Re: Bengaluru: Apathy towards humans and Law

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Originally Posted by ShivrajG View Post
. I could've taken down those 3 men easily (I am equally aggressive with my built)
In hindsight, is there anything you think that you could have avoided which might have instigated these drunkards to start hitting you?
Not questioning the horrific incident which happened to you. But sometimes, unknowingly, we show a belligerent stance, which might instigate such rowdies to become aggressive.
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Old 26th August 2019, 18:56   #17498
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Default Re: Bengaluru: Apathy towards humans and Law

Born to Kannadiga parents in MP, have lived all over India.

Drove an MP registered car in KA for a while (re-registration is painfully long-winded though they accept RTO payments promptly everywhere), then drove the same car with KA plates to MP on a vacation a year later. Got abused by 'locals' both times (technically, I am a local in both places myself), and conversations in both places changed course quickly (if not defused outright), once local language started flowing.

The 'have' vs 'have not' divide is ugly everywhere, and getting worse, and people everywhere are convinced (propagandized is probably a better term) to believe the outsiders are taking away their livelihoods and prosperity, and everything would be fine if only 'locals' existed. This mindset, combined with pent up rage about day-to-day struggles, mixed in with alcohol unsurprisingly leads to horrible situations like the one you faced.

I don't deny xenophobia exists, I've suffered plenty of it myself (including an episode last week in the US), but a lot of it is misdirected and not something I'd paint an entire city/state/country with. It's never as clear cut as that, and good Samaritans often step out of the same 'local' bunch to lend a helping hand, as happened in your case (and mine too).

Don't write off this ugly incident, but don't write the whole experience of Bangalore off the back of it either.

Welcome, we all hate this city for a lot of things (take a look at the traffic rants thread), but we all love it for a lot of things too. Give it a good whirl before you make up your mind.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 26th August 2019 at 19:06. Reason: Word
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Old 26th August 2019, 19:08   #17499
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Default Re: Bengaluru: Apathy towards humans and Law

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Originally Posted by ShivrajG View Post
...

In the end I would like to say I dont know where we are headed as a society but the road ahead seems dark.
I hope this phase gets over quickly and I am back to my place in Pune.

...
I don't know if it helps but here is a small incident that I went through couple of days back - my car is still in Service Center - thanks to B2B insurance hope it'll not be a big burden on my pocket.

I was crossing the Advaita Petrol Pump signal in BTM Layout coming from Silkboard junction towards Banashankari. I had a clear Green signal for me to proceed and it had turned Green for atleast few seconds and the time was around 1AM . Traffic was more than usual and everybody was following the signal [adjacent traffic to my left and opposite side were all stationary]. By the time I could cross the road a speeding Uber Indica came right in front me from my Right and I had to brake hard - still car slid forward and crashed into Indica. Luckily for me hard braking had shed most of the speed.

I'm from Karnataka, know the local language. Ofcourse I was infuriated that for no fault of mine - why should I suffer. Couple of my colleagues reached in few minutes after calls. Probably one difference was that no party abused each other [could've been different if it was my fault - Cab guy had all his gang around and they were thick skinned].

Everybody around me [colleagues/even my wife after reaching home] was like : 'why did you let him go'/ 'we should've made him pay' etc]. But always my primary concern in such situations is family/personal life and safety followed by opposing party's life [I don't want a traffic case to become a criminal case]. There is only so much you can do in a traffic accident case considering nobody is hurt due to accident. I was back to normal by the time I went to sleep by 3AM [car was towed to service center with the help of RSA].

So, yes people in general have become restless. More so in Bangalore with appalling state of infrastructure, almost everybody is in 'bad' mood on the road. Everyday in my 16 km one way commute I see somebody crashing/almost crashing into others/me and these are not just cabs mind you. There is nothing much you and me can do other than driving safe/defensively.
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Old 26th August 2019, 19:09   #17500
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Default Re: Bengaluru: Apathy towards humans and Law

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Originally Posted by ShivrajG View Post
I understand Fellow Bangalore BHPians here may not like my post and this is not to offend anyone or a culture but it’s a personal opinion of me and what happened with me and would respect your opinion as well.
Very unfortunate you had to go through this ordeal. There is, of course, no justification for what happened. We could only wish people behave with self-respect and mutual respect, the cops do their job honestly, folks understand and respect their right of way in traffic, etc etc.

Tragedy is that, this will always remain wishful thinking. People all around will show signs of cheap behavior and indulge in it just as it has happened here.

On a personal level, we can only learn from each others experiences and move on. Few things I see that one can learn from such episodes as this -

1> First priority should always be to defuse a situation. Even if one is not at fault, look for a middle path that will keep the nerves calm in all parties involved.

2> Abusive words are best kept out of potential heated conversations or situations. Even if things seem to be calming down, one abusive word can change the odds drastically.

This happened with me. A bike chap rammed into me almost head on and started hurling abuses. Part of the mistake was mine - an auto guy was blocking a lane and I had to move partly into the next lane and bike guy did not see me before he rammed!

After he paused his abuse hurling, I calmly apologized for my mistake and offered to pay for his damages. The damages were small. But he did calm down. Furthermore, he apologized for his abusive behavior.

I did pay him some 3000/- odd (don't recall the exact numbers) and both moved on.

3> In my personal opinion though, such thought as "I can take on this person or that small group" etc will always be at the heart of the issue where we totally "lose it" and take the aggressive, destructive path.

Even if well trained in martial arts, it is a thought that can never have a good ending, imo of course. I hold this thought with backing of expertise in karate and taekwondo.

Hope you recover soon from this shock and bad experience. Thanks for sharing here - many of us could also learn from it.

Last edited by Miyata : 26th August 2019 at 19:18.
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Old 26th August 2019, 19:29   #17501
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Default Re: Bengaluru: Apathy towards humans and Law

Really sorry to hear about your ordeal. Hope it fades away with time and you get to experience the positive side of this city.
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Originally Posted by ShivrajG View Post
But thats not the point, the point is I was amazed at the apathy shown towards a fellow citizen just because he was not able to clearly communicate with the cops and had non KA registered vehicle.
Trust me its not really bangalore specific. This kind of behavior is common among people across India.

My most horrible experience for not knowing local language was in the city you feel safe, Pune. Within 1 month of landing there for my 1st job in 2007 , I had to face the wrath of local auto-driving goons in Aundh. I still remember the way they ganged up cornering me & almost snatched my wallet as I denied paying extra to what was agreed initially(1.5 times at 8PM from university circle to Aundh). Even the cops nearby gave me gyaan on how I should learn local language to survive in the city. Ended up buying a 2-wheeler right away on loan(as a fresher barely had any savings), since I had never imagined one could face such issues in same country. Before that I had stayed in Andhra(hyderabad), Jharkhand, Bengal & Orissa. But then I have had my best biking(touring) days as well from Pune and hence hold no grudge whatsoever.

Overtime I have understood no matter where you are , you will always keep coming across such people who would leave a bad taste irrespective of you knowing local language or not. Some face it in Indian cities, some face it abroad as well. By no means am I trying to justify what you went through & I totally empathize. My only request is, please don't form an opinion for the entire city based on 1 incident.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
The 'have' vs 'have not' divide is ugly everywhere, and getting worse, and people everywhere are convinced (propagandized is probably a better term) to believe the outsiders are taking away their livelihoods and prosperity, and everything would be fine if only 'locals' existed. This mindset, combined with pent up rage about day-to-day struggles, mixed in with alcohol unsurprisingly leads to horrible situations like the one you faced.
Couldn't have put it in a better way. This is indeed true and scary at the same time

Last edited by SoumenD : 26th August 2019 at 19:37.
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Old 26th August 2019, 19:30   #17502
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Default Re: Bengaluru: Apathy towards humans and Law

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Originally Posted by Miyata View Post
Even if well trained in martial arts, it is a thought that can never have a good ending, imo of course. I hold this thought with backing of expertise in karate and taekwondo.
Most martial artists do think about the hypothetical multiple-attacker scenario, and come to a sober realization that facing multiple opponents is a no-win situation. Unlike in a movie, they won't attack you one after the other. When you are tackling the first one, others are free to attack you from behind. Game over.

De-escalate and diffuse, is the only real option in a road rage situation.

Last edited by Samurai : 26th August 2019 at 19:31.
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Old 26th August 2019, 19:33   #17503
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For example, for a local auto rickshaw driver he has no kind of embarassment for what a non-Indian person thinks about his behaviour. For that driver the maximum requirements are to escape the police and make a daily living.
The bad driving is not limited to auto drivers. Many of the educated IT employees can give these auto guys very good competition in driving like morons. For instance, when I come out of my layout to join the main road, the road has breaks in the median at 2 points. The first one is around 50-80 m on the left side and the other is at a similar distance on the right side. So if you are heading to the right, you have to turn left and take a U-turn in 50 metres. But almost everyone just turns right and merges into the road at the next break in the median. All these guys are educated guys who work in reputed IT companies around Bangalore. So I don't see any use blaming just the auto guys anymore .
Wrong side driving has become so common that people don't even consider it as a traffic violation anymore. There was a time when it was done only by a very few 2 wheeler riders who used to switch on their hazard lights and sheepishly drive on the wrong side. These days, everyone from cars to lorries to buses drive on the wrong side and shout at you, if you point it out .
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Old 26th August 2019, 19:35   #17504
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Default Re: Bengaluru: Apathy towards humans and Law

I also want to add my experience in Mysore city every weekend, what do the show-offs from big IT companies coming in rental cars from Banglore do inside the city? They have no regrets for their behavior and behave as if the entire city belongs to them. We have traced their origins to the new areas of Bangalore situated around Tech parks on ORR. We see the seeds of racial discrimination in small kids who fear to make friends with kids speaking regional languages.
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Old 26th August 2019, 20:41   #17505
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Sorry about your experience buddy. Hope you are able to put it behind sooner or later and start loving this city.

I have lived and travelled quite much across India, and let me assure you that what happened with you could have equally happened in numerous other Indian cities. 100%.

Having said that, you'll need to be extra aware of your non local status in Bangalore and be careful. This discrimination can get one into trouble rather quickly. I have lived 5 years in Pune, and the local non local friction is there too. And Chennai too. Hyderabad is much much better on this parameter, probably because Hindi is a well accepted language there.

Anyway, stay safe man.

cheers
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