[arijitkanrar]

Originally Posted by am1m

That is hilarious!

I've read several 'reasons' online for why that particular section is still incomplete. Covid, steel shortage, labour shortage, land acquisition, etc etc. Does anyone know what the actual reason was?

Originally Posted by am1m

Thanks guys, thought it might have something to do with the Railways. Unfortunately, IR seems to always have issues with anything the Metro wants to do, and sorting out anything to do with IR-Metro co-ordination always seems to take much longer than necessary.

I follow the Namma Metro thread on SkyScraperCity quite closely. So most of what I write here is knowledge gained from there. There are some exemplary individuals who have gone beyond what is humanely possible to bring us regular updates and I will attempt to share some of it here.

The main reason for the delay seems to be the delay in obtaining a line block from SWR (South Western Railway) to move the OWG (Open Web Girder) truss in place over the train tracks. Also there was further delay when SWR officials inspected the OWG and said that bolts on OWG were not torqued as per their specs which again moved the OWG shift by weeks.
Post the OWG being moved, work on the remaining few sections could begin as these were being blocked by temporary support structures for the OWG. The last span till the OWG could be completed once the OWG deck slab had been cast. All sections of this last span have been lifted and stressed. In a few days it will be lowered on the piers.
You can refer to this post on SSC forum.
Post this the parapet walls, tracks, power and signalling equipment etc need to be completed to link it to Byappanahalli.

Originally Posted by airguitar

I planned a trip from WFD to Cubbon Park for the Bangalore Habba and was shocked to be told at the counter that the train terminates at Krishnarajapura. No where was it clear that the connectivity to Byappanahalli wasn't done. As it is, I still can't digest the fact that the most blocked/trafficky areas ( including when the govt knew that all/most IT companies were relocating to ORR over the last few years ), ORR and WFD, would get metros 12 years after the initial inauguration ( 14 years perhaps for ORR when it is opened ). Same thing happens on where B-TRACK, or traffic offense monitoring cameras, white topping/quality of roads round the year etc get done. Old bangalore areas always get priority.



Not clear where the metro has to cross over the railwayline : are you referring to the one Bangalore - Hosur rail line at Benniganahalli ?

Also, as far as the overall picture goes : https://themetrorailguy.com/2022/03/...phase-3-plans/ : why is this already looking so messy ? is there a method to the phased madness here that I'm missing ? Feels like random criscrossing of metro routes.

Till the link between Byappanahalli and KR Pura is completed, BMRCL along with BMTC has feeder bus services between these two stations. You can get down at any station and take a direct bus to the other station and continue the journey. Its not the best solution but its temporary to reduce commuter inconvenience.

Metro alignments are planned years and years in advance since there are various hurdles that need to be overcome before construction can even start. Tasks such as Land Aquisition (and all its associated legal and political hurdles), Environmental clearences, utility shifting, station location planning, tender awarding etc take lot of time. So DPRs need to be able to predict the ROI on an alignment which means predicting future population and traffic. The Whitefield extension work began in 2017 and is coming to a conclusion now. Considering its almost 15km long, it wasn't really quick but wasn't too bad considering all circumstances.

Originally Posted by srvm

GMaps in satellite view shows that the Purple line metro never crosses the Chennai-Bangalore railway line between Baiyappanahalli and KR Puram. Metro line stays south of the railway line.

However, metro does cross Baiyappanahalli/Banaswadi-Hosur railway line near Baiyappanahalli Auxiliary Bypass cabin.

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

Yes, it crosses over the Baiyappanahalli - Hosur line. And unfortunately the same thing awaits the ORR line also. The ORR Metro line crosses the Hosur Railway line at the Rainbow Hospital area after Marathahalli. If you notice, the spans before and after it are almost ready, but there is nothing happening on both sides of the railway track that goes over the ORR. There was one article that said this is also getting into a loop with railways asking to change design etc as the Hosur line is getting doubled and there is also the proposal of suburban rail. So the metro span should go over 4 tracks out of which today only one is there and the design was planned around covering 2 lines.

Originally Posted by audioholic

As usual the bureaucratic mess with railways exist and they seem to be going safe and demanding space for four tracks to pass through(which is another unrealistic expectation) That means another open web girder which on the ORR is impossible to launch without shutting down the entire ORR.

This is a concern really. SWR has again thrown a spanner in the works by asking for change in the design. It was planned for an OWG already but now SWR wants space for more tracks (whether the space is actually avilable is debatable) which means a longer OWG. Thus not only the current OWG being manufactured has to be modified, but the pier locations design will also change because this line uses precast U-girders which cannot be shortened/lengthened at will. This would mean changing the design of piers or worse relocating them and chaging their design to accomodate composite girders. All this would require new planning, soil testing, utility shifting if necessary and new piling for new piers. All in a narrow space with minimal impact on traffic flow. This alone has the potential to set back this line by months. Then there is another OWG for the blue line depot entrance track to cross the Hosur line at Beninganahalli which again will bring unknown set of challenges.

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

Hope you are proven wrong, but I agree with you. The station work is not really started anywhere and as you rightly said, structure completion can be done very fast. The only plus point is that until now, in all other sections, the structure work itself was painfully slow. On ORR at least that part has been taken care off. 2026-27 is my estimate too.

Not sure if they can prioritize 3-4 stations and get the line running as the 2 ends will anyway be ready. I recall Dubai Metro used to follow that approach. They opened lines with few stations ready and then kept adding as it got done.

Originally Posted by audioholic

In addition to the structural works, what is also important is the availability of depots and rolling stock. For the ORR metro, it would use the Baiyyapanahalli depot which will be remodelled to suit its needs while the existing rakes for purple line will be shifted to Kadugodi Depot. If so, then the line shall be ready to use at least from KR Pura till Rainbow hospital.

For the Yellow line, provided rolling stock and depot is ready soon, we can see operations until Udupi garden by next year for sure. Its only Jayadeva hospital exchange that will be a blocker. But that anyway is almost the end of the line and people could make use of this line between Silk board and Bommasandra.

Opening a line in sections while sounds easy in principle, will need advance planning since you need a crossover track for trains to reverse and shift to the opposite track. This crossover track has to be precisely after the station being opened for optimal operations. With U-girders this cannot be done as they are enclosed by design and you cannot create an opening between adjacent U-girders for a crossover track. A crossover track requires a composite girder which requires a different pillar/pier structure

Then comes the availability of trainsets. I think for Yellow line the trainsets were to be delivered by CRRC of China who was required to setup a plant in India. This was before the Galwan clash post which CRRC's plan of setting up local assembly was abandoned. Now they have entered into a JV with an Indian company, Titagarh Wagons Ltd., who are setting up a factory in WB. But it'll still be a while before they start delivery of trainsets. All other manufacturers of trains such as BEML, Alstom etc already have their orderbooks full with Metros coming up in various cities in India.

So while BMRCL is not best, we have to appreciate the challenges behind massive projects such as these and accept that there will be delays. In some case the contractors are making very good progress especially on the Blue line but such projects can slow down for various reasons.
What is good though is the interest in such projects among the general public which means its better for govts in the long run to see them completed.

While I see the challenges I havent lost hope that we will soon see more metro lines coming up!

[am1m]

Originally Posted by arijitkanrar

So most of what I write here is knowledge gained from there. There are some exemplary individuals who have gone beyond what is humanely possible to bring us regular updates and I will attempt to share some of it here.

Excellent post! Thank you so much for adding the info from that forum for us here in an easy to follow format. I too try and follow the metro section of skyscrapercity, but unfortunately that forum is not as well moderated as ours and often the discussion there goes into political and regional pot-shots and sniping. Makes it difficult to extract the useful info sometimes. Thank you for your excellent summary!

Originally Posted by arijitkanrar

So while BMRCL is not best, we have to appreciate the challenges behind massive projects such as these and accept that there will be delays.

While I see the challenges I havent lost hope that we will soon see more metro lines coming up!

Oh absolutely! The metro is the ONLY long-term solution for a civilized commute in Bangalore. Road widening, flyovers, etc. will reach capacity almost as soon as they are completed. Public transport with last-mile connectivity and better pedestrian access is the only way to go for cities like Bangalore.

The only thing I have an issue with BMRCL is the misleading statements/deadline announcements. They have a habit of always providing unrealistic deadlines and updates to the press even when the reality on the ground is very different and obvious to everyone else. I understand there are political and PR pressures, but people will just lose faith in anything the MD says at this rate.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by am1m

The metro is the ONLY long-term solution for a civilized commute in Bangalore. Road widening, flyovers, etc. will reach capacity almost as soon as they are completed. Public transport with last-mile connectivity and better pedestrian access is the only way to go for cities like Bangalore.

+1 to this.

But I do have to mention this - it also comes down to the residents of the city and their attitude change to use the public transport options. That means opting for the metro / bus / train / etc instead of the car key; especially when we might be the only one traveling in the car.

Hopefully once the additional lines become active and interconnectivity improves across the city, the shift will also happen.

[Nalin1]

Metro is right now around 66 kms of network. Make that 660 or even more. Won't reduce traffic on the road one bit!. Metro is just another mode of transport available. Road traffic, once it reaches a certain level stays there forever.

Those who opt for metro instead of bikes/cars is a miniscule number. In a city with one and a half crore people, practically ZERO.

[arijitkanrar]

Originally Posted by Nalin1

Metro is right now around 66 kms of network. Make that 660 or even more. Won't reduce traffic on the road one bit!. Metro is just another mode of transport available. Road traffic, once it reaches a certain level stays there forever.

Those who opt for metro instead of bikes/cars is a miniscule number. In a city with one and a half crore people, practically ZERO.

The average daily ridership of Namma Metro before the pandemic hit was around 5,00,000. That is half a million people using the metro on average everyday. I wouldnt call that a miniscule number

Granted it will take time to go back to those levels post pandemic, but its not small by any means.
People will use the metro if they find value in it. The value will have to be created by ensuring good last mile connectivity.
My wife and I had to travel from Whitefield to Malleshwaram for bank work. Parked the car at Byappanahalli and took the metro. Couldn't be more happier that day. If we had taken the car all the way, would have been quite pissed and tired the whole day if we had to endure the traffic all through the city. If you are used to be stuck in traffic, its actually quite astounding how quickly you can cover distance in metro.
I had to travel to Indiranagar from Arekere in Bannerghatta Road. Decided to go till Yelachenahalli metro station and take the green line to majestic and purple line to Indiranagar. Reached in 1hr flat which included the 20min spent in an auto to reach Yelachenahalli from Arekere. Not to mention that it was far less frustrating experience.

So, with more lines being added, and offices opening up, we can only hope that more people start using the services.

[binand]

Originally Posted by Nalin1

Won't reduce traffic on the road one bit!. Metro is just another mode of transport available. Road traffic, once it reaches a certain level stays there forever.

Policy makers can (must) disincentivise private vehicles on the roads in a number of ways. Congestion charges. Parking controls. Prioritising public transport (bus lanes, remember?).

Originally Posted by arijitkanrar

My wife and I had to travel from Whitefield to Malleshwaram for bank work. Parked the car at Byappanahalli and took the metro. Couldn't be more happier that day.

Can concur. Had some work at Jayanagar RTO. Took the metro from Baiyappanahalli and walked to the RTO office at the other end. Zero stress trip. About 40 minutes it took while going (took a bit longer because I inadvertently ended up on the wrong platform while changing at Majestic and missed the connecting train).

[am1m]

Originally Posted by Nalin1

Metro is right now around 66 kms of network. Make that 660 or even more. Won't reduce traffic on the road one bit!

It won't and it is not meant to. Delhi has a much more extensive metro network and still has traffic volume. What a good and extensive metro system (when it finally materializes) will do is give those who chose to use it, and structure their lives around it, a better, saner, less frustrating, more predictable, productive, and healthier alternative to commute. Those who want to use their cars and crawl in traffic, are always free to do so.

Originally Posted by arijitkanrar

If we had taken the car all the way, would have been quite pissed and tired the whole day if we had to endure the traffic all through the city.

Once you get used to leaving the car behind in Bangalore traffic, it's hard to go back. When I have the choice, and for leisure travel in the city (movies, restaurants, visiting friends) I've already started going only to places that have metro access.

Originally Posted by binand

Policy makers can (must) disincentivise private vehicles on the roads in a number of ways.

Absolutely, and that will inevitably happen too. Though for me, the potholed roads, traffic jams, idiots driving/riding the wrong way, aggressive cab drivers, honking for all and no reasons, continuous road digging by BBMP, Airtel, Jio, BWSSB, BESCOM (and of course BMRCL! ), lack of parking, white-topping...are all already huge disincentives to taking the car out in Bangalore!

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by am1m

... give those who chose to use it, and structure their lives around it, a better, saner, less frustrating, more predictable, productive, and healthier alternative to commute...

My parents have moved to Bangalore recently, and quickly became huge fans of the Metro (Ma especially).

While in MP, she was dependent on Dad or cabbies to ferry her around. She tried to learn driving in her late 50s, but gave up after an accident dented her confidence.

Here, she's got a Metro card and her closest Metro stop is a 5 minute bus ride (that their residential campus provides a shuttle to & fro), she can go far and wide meeting friends & extended family, or wherever she wants to really; cheaply, comfortably and in predictable amounts of time. It's fantastic, and liberating in a way that her kids' generation simply takes for granted!

[arijitkanrar]

Originally Posted by binand

Policy makers can (must) disincentivise private vehicles on the roads in a number of ways. Congestion charges. Parking controls. Prioritising public transport (bus lanes, remember?).

I would turn the solution on its head. Instead of disincentivising private vehicles, public transport must be incentivised first.
Without making public transport viable, pushing citizens to use public transport is harsh and just makes life harder. Just think, why would a family of three or four(husband, wife, one or two kids) take the trouble of taking public transport when the last mile connectivity is so abysmal? Except a limited set of localities, most places are completely unwalkable. Footpaths are either non-existent or dug up. When they are available they are filled with two wheelers who consider it to be just an extension of the road or by shops or filled with dangling wires. The net result is that you have to get down on the road so frequently that you would stop getting up on the footpath again because you know you have to get down again. Add to that the heat, dust etc and you end up having a miserable experience. Why would any family want to go through this if they have a quality of life enhancing option available in the form of a private vehicle?
A similar story applies to office goers though they would be slightly more forgiving than a family.

Public transport has to be made accessible enough that people use it by choice and not by force.

Originally Posted by binand

Can concur. Had some work at Jayanagar RTO. Took the metro from Baiyappanahalli and walked to the RTO office at the other end. Zero stress trip. About 40 minutes it took while going (took a bit longer because I inadvertently ended up on the wrong platform while changing at Majestic and missed the connecting train).

Jayanagar is an excellent example of a place where going by metro is probably the most logical way if metro access at source is easy enough. Excellent walking infrastructure, lots of vegetation to give respite from heat and enough places to rest. But the same cannot be said for all the places.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by Nalin1

Metro is right now around 66 kms of network. Make that 660 or even more. Won't reduce traffic on the road one bit!. Metro is just another mode of transport available. Road traffic, once it reaches a certain level stays there forever.

Those who opt for metro instead of bikes/cars is a miniscule number. In a city with one and a half crore people, practically ZERO.

The purpose is not aimed at reducing the traffic on the road. Look at any city across the world with an excellent metro / rail / subway network and they will still boast of heavy traffic. Bombay, New York, London, etc. all have excellent public transport options. And they all have traffic problems. At an individual level, it comes down to the mentality of shifting away from the personal vehicles and using the public transport. Currently we don't have a full networked metro system available in this city.


I had a car while living in NY for a year. The day I shifted to NY, I parked it at my relative's place upstate and lived in the heart of the city. Office commute was 1 hour each side. I had to take a mix of 2 subways and a connecting bus after that. Many of my colleagues who came either from NJ side or NY side all had commutes of 30 mins at the bare minimum. Barely anyone used cars (even the ones coming from NJ across the river). I loved using the local transport; during peak hours, they would be as full as our Mumbai locals. Somedays I would walk a few kms instead of the second subway.


Same was the case in Bombay. I hated taking the car into the city; it was only used if I was heading out of the city. I finally sold my car after it was parked at my apartment for nearly 2 years, hardly being used.


I hope 10 years down the lane, the metro with the additional lines being opened offers similar options in Bangalore to people like me.

[airguitar]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

+1 to this.

But I do have to mention this - it also comes down to the residents of the city and their attitude change to use the public transport options. That means opting for the metro / bus / train / etc instead of the car key; especially when we might be the only one traveling in the car.

Hopefully once the additional lines become active and interconnectivity improves across the city, the shift will also happen.

Almost everyone I know is excited about the metro. Not because it provides them a convenient commute, but because they think the roads will get free(r) so that they zip to work in their oversized single-occupant cars. I don't grudge them, for as a regular user of public transport, I end up wasting a lot of time waiting for buses etc, adds atleast 1.5 hours extra ( walking to bus stop, change of bus, walking to office again and repeat the reverse order ), not to mention weather related vagaries.

[Nalin1]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

The purpose is not aimed at reducing the traffic on the road. Look at any city across the world with an excellent metro / rail / subway network and they will still boast of heavy traffic. Bombay, New York, London, etc. all have excellent public transport options. And they all have traffic problems. At an individual level, it comes down to the mentality of shifting away from the personal vehicles and using the public transport. Currently we don't have a full networked metro system available in this city.

Yes yes of course . The metro is a great option in a city like Bangalore.

The reason why I linked this with traffic is almost everyone I speak with says, " Metro is the only solution to Bangalore's traffic woes" .

[condor]

Metro is a very good option as long as
1. one is travelling with limited stuff
2. Last mile connectivity at both ends is good.

But for others where even one of these points is not convenient, Metro will not be preferred. I myself travel to places in the city where #2 is limited, or I am carrying stuff in the car.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by Nalin1

" Metro is the only solution to Bangalore's traffic woes" .

Bangalore folks need to realize they are the problem and the solution to the traffic woes Realistically it is never going to be solved - even if we had 4/6 lane flyovers and excellent bus, rail & metro connectivity across every corner of the city.

Every one of us will have some or the other reason to take a 4 wheeler and help clog up the road; and it will vary from individual to individual
- need to carry additional load
- last mile connectivity
- health reasons
- weather constraints (heat / rain / etc)
- personal convenience
and so on...

Unfortunately that will ensure the roads remain filled up. Irrespective of however better the public transport gets to be.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

... folks need to realize they are the problem...

Reminds me of this every time traffic is debated anywhere: