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Old 13th October 2023, 12:45   #21331
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Re: Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation

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Originally Posted by am1m View Post
Ditto.

I really don't think any Metro system will 'solve' traffic jams. That is a misconception IMHO. Whatever cars go off the roads because of the Metro, new drivers will take their place. Usually, it's the people using the bus on those routes that make the switch. Traffic jams will continue. I think those expecting clear roads because of the Metro (so they can use their cars! ) are going to be disappointed long-term. And then the media will say the "Metro has had no effect". It does work though, but only for those who choose to use it!
Well Said! This will exactly be the case. There was a lot of publicity about the metro ridership hitting 7 Lakh a day. In comparison BMTC daily ridership is 34-38 Lakh. And this is with a sub standard bus network that has a lot of issues by itself. It is this crowd that will start shifting to the metro first as lines becomes operational. In addition, the set of people who rely on other forms of public transport like company transport, cabs, autos etc. Also, many companies in Whitefield are reducing their transportation fleet and asking employees to take the Metro.

The private car user will be the last group that will shift to a metro in a large scale. Till then it will be like 'Everyone will use the metro, then roads will be free to drive my car'.

Another issue is that we are not a 'walking city'. There is Zero Infra for pedestrians and in general we do not have a walking culture. So expecting a private car owner to walk say 1km to a metro station is also unlikely to happen in scale (generalizing a little here).

Intention is not to downplay the Metro. I am totally onboard that rail based transport is the best and most efficient methods of transportation for a city and we can never have enough of it.

I came across this nice map of what the Metro and Suburban Rail System will look once all the current approved lines are done. Creator info in the image itself. I got it from X(Twitter). The suburban system is going very slow and I assume will continue to do so. The Metro lines will all get done at some point. Roughly in the next 8-10 years we should have this full network.

Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation-20231011_084743.jpg

Last edited by Rajeevraj : 13th October 2023 at 12:47.
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Old 13th October 2023, 12:57   #21332
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Re: Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation

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Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
The private car user will be the last group that will shift to a metro in a large scale. Till then it will be like 'Everyone will use the metro, then roads will be free to drive my car'.
Thanks for stating this. This is why the media needs to do it's bit to correct that perception. It is never going to happen. At least once the metro coverage is decent and some of the last-mile connectivity solutions are in place (it will never be 100% coverage and complete mobility from everyone's doorstep!), at least anyone stuck in traffic then with their car, well it's their choice.

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Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
Another issue is that we are not a 'walking city'. There is Zero Infra for pedestrians and in general we do not have a walking culture. So expecting a private car owner to walk say 1km to a metro station is also unlikely to happen in scale (generalizing a little here).
Very true and that's a tragedy, because Bangalore weather during most months is still very good for walks up to a km. I usually find it easy to walk up to 1.5km-2km around any metro station, unless it's along a high-traffic road without any footpaths.

We need to get our pedestrian infra up asap. We all complain about the time it took and how narrow the roads have become now, but walking around MG road and the surrounding smart-city footpaths in the CBD has improved so much in the past couple of years. That is the future.
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Old 13th October 2023, 14:33   #21333
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Re: Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation

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Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
There was a lot of publicity about the metro ridership hitting 7 Lakh a day. In comparison BMTC daily ridership is 34-38 Lakh. And this is with a sub standard bus network that has a lot of issues by itself. It is this crowd that will start shifting to the metro first as lines becomes operational. In addition, the set of people who rely on other forms of public transport like company transport, cabs, autos etc. Also, many companies in Whitefield are reducing their transportation fleet and asking employees to take the Metro.

The private car user will be the last group that will shift to a metro in a large scale. Till then it will be like 'Everyone will use the metro, then roads will be free to drive my car'.
Your observation is valid about the commuters will be migrate to metro. However, I would say that car guys like me! also prefer to take Metro where possible. I stay 750 meters from Purple line metro station. And whenever I want to go to any location on the purple or green line, I take the metro. For example, I felt bugged and wished to go to Church Street to take a stroll and eat something. It was so convenient to get onto the metro, get down at MG road, walk down the Chruch street and hop back on metro and be home. I cannot think of taking my car/bike, drive/ride down to MG road, find a parking. Too much hassle.
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Old 14th October 2023, 11:07   #21334
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Re: Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation

I think the governments should also provide some additional incentive for the IT crowd to take the Metro. For example, similar to how the Sodexo food coupons get tax exempted, they could do something similar by providing monthly Metro pass refills which can be tax exempt.
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Old 14th October 2023, 11:46   #21335
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Re: Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation

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Originally Posted by where_to_next View Post
I think the governments should also provide some additional incentive for the IT crowd to take the Metro. For example, similar to how the Sodexo food coupons get tax exempted, they could do something similar by providing monthly Metro pass refills which can be tax exempt.
An excellent idea indeed. It may help.

Slightly OT:
That way I wish they would also simply abolish personal income tax and continue with GST etc
Right now salaried people pay tax on everything whereas those with business or agricultural income dont.
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Old 14th October 2023, 11:50   #21336
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Re: Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation

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Originally Posted by where_to_next View Post
I think the governments should also provide some additional incentive for the IT crowd to take the Metro. For example, similar to how the Sodexo food coupons get tax exempted, they could do something similar by providing monthly Metro pass refills which can be tax exempt.
Do you think IT people don't use metro because it is expensive and a 30% discount on ticket price (tax exemption) will make us flee towards metro stations en masse?
Sadly most people including the govt doesn't understand the real problem - lack of last mile connectivity. I stay about 2.7kms from Hoodi metro and about 5kms from Kadugodi metro station. I neither have a bus service to Kadugodi (5kms is not walkable) nor there is any walkable road to Hoodi. The route from my home to hoodi metro doesn't have any footpath and the so called "road" has so many craters filled with sewage water that it is impossible to walk on without spoiling ones clothes. The autos in the area demand minimum 200Rs to travel 2.7kms and even if you are ready to pay, they will drive on the wrong side and show rowdiness if you try to stop them (I know because I have faced this!). There are thousands of people like me in and around whitefield interiors who have no choice but to take out our scooters or cars and spend 45 mins to travel 6kms and cough up almost 3000Rs per month on petrol. If government addresses these problems (footpaths, share autos, roads etc), I am ready to pay even 6000Rs per month for metro ticket for saving my time every day!. Instead if they impose congestion tax, I will pay it (with lot of curses of course) but still take my car out!
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Old 14th October 2023, 16:35   #21337
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Re: Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation

Metro can not expected to reach every corner of the city within walkable distance and hence what it needs to really make a difference is the last mile connectivity. Metro is amazing when it comes to cutting travel time for long distances but Bangalore lacks something like share autos or auto drivers who go by meter. Govt needs to prioritize interest of commuters over auto / taxi interest groups and solve these problems but hope is low :'(.

Once metro network grows further and some solution is found to the last mile connectivity problem, I'm sure private car drivers would also shift. Look at Mumbai!
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Old 14th October 2023, 16:38   #21338
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Re: Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation

With reference to Bengaluru Metro, I think it should be a success.

Jaipur Metro, as a case didn't succeed just because its a double line track with a single route. Coverage was simply non existent. Thus it was a common sight to see the entire metro being almost empty in the rush hours, while the roads were filled! The Namma Metro map posted shows some good signs of overall coverage, although it is some good long term planning.
On the other hand, Delhi Metro is success despite not so many tracks/routes as such, just due to its population.

I was in Bangaluru as a 2nd to 4th standard school student. Beautiful city, most people were very friendly & helpful.

The people above complaining of 2-3 kms distance should consider cycling for the sake of the city. You know, once I walked 6 kms as a 4th standard child, in Bengaluru itself.
I can see a little ego too in the opinions, while I'm myself ready to sacrifice riding my Duke 390(!) if my city had Metro, but it doesn't sadly.
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Old 14th October 2023, 16:56   #21339
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Re: Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation

Metro might or might not solve, but it seems tax will - pun intended!

When you can't go ahead and plan the city which is already sub merged in taxes, find a way out of the problem - ask people to pay more taxes.

https://www.indiatoday.in/cities/ben...027-2023-10-03
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Old 14th October 2023, 19:20   #21340
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Re: Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation

To increase the chances of people preferring metro over their own vehicle whenever the metro connectivity expands, all metro stations should plan for some sort of parking arrangement for at least 2-wheelers, if providing parking for 4-wheelers is a challenge.

The biggest hurdle for a person like me would be the travel to/from the metro station. Its hard to find an autorickshaw who agrees to ferry you or find a Ola/Uber cab which doesn't cancel your booking after getting to know where you want to go.

Some IT campuses like the Embassy Golf Links provide shuttles to and from the Indiranagar metro station which many of my colleagues take. However their frequencies have reduced post Covid, but we may expect it to pick up once people start returning to office. Even so, these shuttles are available during fixed times only.
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Old 14th October 2023, 20:47   #21341
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Re: Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation

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Originally Posted by Logan2007 View Post
Govt need to prioritize the interest of commuters over auto / taxi interest groups and solve these problems but hope is low :'(.
Beautiful observation. We have horrible Auto RTO politics where they limit licenses of the number of Auto licenses as well as Auto registration. I can reach end to end in the metro for less than 80Rs while a 3.2 km from metro to my house costs 100rs.

Noida/Delhi excels in last-mile connectivity with E-rickshaws costing about 20rs per passenger for the same distance. It is eco-friendly and the rickshaw driver is able to earn 500-1000rs every day.

Worse, RTO stopped the Rapido bike Taxi, Quickride ride-sharing apps because the government is slow to change the laws with the changing times.
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Old 15th October 2023, 01:04   #21342
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Re: Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation

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Originally Posted by abhiijithbhatn View Post
Beautiful observation. We have horrible Auto RTO politics where they limit licenses of the number of Auto licenses as well as Auto registration. I can reach end to end in the metro for less than 80Rs while a 3.2 km from metro to my house costs 100rs.

Noida/Delhi excels in last-mile connectivity with E-rickshaws costing about 20rs per passenger for the same distance. It is eco-friendly and the rickshaw driver is able to earn 500-1000rs every day.

Worse, RTO stopped the Rapido bike Taxi, Quickride ride-sharing apps because the government is slow to change the laws with the changing times.
Do we have lawyers who can represent the common man and take the government and these auto cartel unions to court as they are not acting in the public interest? strength is in unity and we common men are treated as individuals and these auto drivers work as a single entity. We can easily pool money to represent us as the government is not representing us or taking sides. Let's make noise and build pressure on the local government.

A single auto in Bengaluru breaks traffic law more than 100 times easily. Let's start recording them and sharing videos on social media tagging the RTO, Corporators, MLA, IPS, IAS, etc. They only move when they get caught sleeping publicly to save their face or when get covered in the media.
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Old 15th October 2023, 10:51   #21343
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Re: Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation

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Originally Posted by am1m View Post
I really don't think any Metro system will 'solve' traffic jams.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PreludeSH View Post
I think Metro will solve driving issues only for the people who use it
Quote:
Originally Posted by puntra800 View Post
Unless our public transport network and frequency is improved I guess we will never get out of this loop of ranting on Bangalore traffic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
The private car user will be the last group that will shift to a metro in a large scale.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan2007 View Post
Metro can not expected to reach every corner of the city within walkable distance and hence what it needs to really make a difference is the last mile connectivity.
As I mentioned in a previous post (Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation), the Metro is only one piece of the jigsaw. For the puzzle to be fully solved, the other pieces also need to fall in place. On the supply side, feeder buses, safe sidewalks and other improvements to last-mile connectivity is absolutely needed. On the demand side, disincentives such as congestion charges, parking policy etc. are to be formulated.

Until then - the city's commuters will continue to be split into two. Those who are unconstrained from taking the metro and those who are systemically prevented from doing so.
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Old 15th October 2023, 12:02   #21344
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Re: Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation

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[]As I mentioned in a previous post[/url], the Metro is only one piece of the jigsaw. For the puzzle to be fully solved, the other pieces also need to fall in place..
OT:
Speaking of Jigsaws. Immediately this came to my mind in a humorous vein.
Attached Thumbnails
Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation-img_9179.jpg  

Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation-img_0443.jpeg  

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Old 15th October 2023, 12:53   #21345
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Re: Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation

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Originally Posted by binand View Post
As I mentioned in a previous post (Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation), the Metro is only one piece of the jigsaw. For the puzzle to be fully solved, the other pieces also need to fall in place. On the supply side, feeder buses, safe sidewalks and other improvements to last-mile connectivity is absolutely needed. On the demand side, disincentives such as congestion charges, parking policy etc. are to be formulated.

Until then - the city's commuters will continue to be split into two. Those who are unconstrained from taking the metro and those who are systemically prevented from doing so.
There lies the problem I think, There is not enough thought or effort being put in to the other parts of the jigsaw puzzle. Even if you take the Metro piece of the puzzle, there are few things that I realized after reading tweets and articles around the surge in ridership that is starting after the full purple line opened.
  • The acute shortage of train sets. When the network was 45km, BMRCL had 50 train sets- Now it is 72+km and there are still only 57 trainsets. Which means in spite of the massive crowds being seen, currently BMRCL is constrained to increase regular frequency to 2-3 min. It is mostly at 8 or 10 min (Still very good, but apparently not enough to handle the crowd). So we are already playing catch-up.
  • The Electronic City- RV Road Yellow Line is 90% done and should be completed by December apparently. But it cannot be started as there are no train sets. The earliest the trainsets can be supplied is Feb 2024. The same problem will extend into the Pink and Blue Line if some urgent actions are not taken.
  • There is lot of clamor around increasing to 8 coach trains. People don't realize that a metro train set is not like a regular train. You cannot add coaches to it. In addition, the whole network is designed for 6 coach trains. Even if BMRCL wants to bring in 8 coach train sets, they cannot. They system will not support it.
  • Looking ahead to the ORR Blue Line is also worry-some. As per reports, around 650,000 people work in companies in the stretch from Silk Board to KR Puram and this is expected to go up further to close to 1 Million with all the new construction happening. Even if 10% want to switch over to the Metro when it opens 2-3 years down the line. That is ~100,000 people and most will be during the peak hours.

So in summary there is a lot of work just in the metro piece of the jigsaw that needs to be looked and plans set in motion so that the Metro system can remain smooth and efficient as the network expands. Maybe they already are, but just looking at some of the issues that are getting exposed, it looks like we are already scrambling to catch up.
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