[PreludeSH]

Originally Posted by nirmaljusdoit

I think this perfectly sums up our situation as a city and a country

Who are we actually paying ? Maybe we should have separate taxes for paying our lords and to public exchequer. They are not able to separate them properly.

Also, need new rules where public assume more responsibility for new projects, supervision and maintenance of them.

[shankar.balan]

We used to drive or ride from Chennai to Bangalore in the 1980’s and 1990’s and all.

I clearly remember that from Kolar onwards all the way into Bangalore via Hosakote and KR Puram and all, there used to be lots of water bodies on both sides of the road.

Closer to KR Puram there were large water bodies on either side.

If we used the Hosur approach, there were the same water bodies on both sides.

Even in Madras on Poonamallee High Road around Arumbakkam and Koyambedu and Poonamallee itself, there were water bodies and fields on both sides.

All these water bodies and fields were at a level which was significantly lower than the road level.

All of them were perfect ‘catchment’ areas.

Every single one of these have been concreted and built over.

Where then, will the water collect?
And where then, will it go?

[souvikjana83]

There is a YouTube channel called NotJustBikes who emphasizes that govt should not build highways in cities. Instead it should invest in building sustainable public transport not only within the city but also to suburbs as suburbs will grow to become part of the city in future.

Any major cities in the world be it London, New York, Tokyo, Seoul, Melbourne, Sydney, Beijing have world class public transport and govt continuously keep developing them.

Unfortunately Govts of India focus only in making cities car centric and not much effort is being made to develop public transport on massive scale. By doing that they are able to make corporators rich and also make people buy their own vehicles to earn revenue. But they forget they are actually losing money on fuel imports, road repair and maintenance and wastage of people's time and money in massive traffic jams.

That's why it is so important to choose your leaders wisely.

[Jazzybala]

It comes down to a strong civic sense too. There are plenty of us literate urban citizens who still choose their representives based on their community and their regional sentiments(within the same state as the city are living in), instead of coalescing as an one to demand a much more inclusive development for the betterment of the city and the state as a whole.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by souvikjana83

Instead it should invest in building sustainable public transport not only within the city but also to suburbs as suburbs will grow to become part of the city in future.


Unfortunately Govts of India focus only in making cities car centric and not much effort is being made to develop public transport on massive scale. By doing that they are able to make corporators rich and also make people buy their own vehicles to earn revenue.

That's why it is so important to choose your leaders wisely.

We are notorious in India for our short sightedness and orientation towards get rich quick and the seeking of nirvana for the ‘self’ rather than thinking for the good of the greater number over the long term.

This kind of poor quality thinking and behaviour applies not only to Politics but nowadays incidentally also to the startup world. (With exceptions of course.)

If our blokes had had the foresight then we would not be struggling in this manner in our cities and towns of today.

Its nice to think of being able to choose the leaders wisely. However, the sadness is the leaders are always chosen by the vast uneducated uncaring majority who seem to be motivated primarily by freebies and gimmicks and community/ tribe based loyalties and parochialism (and how can I forget the all Important Movies!)

[am1m]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

However, the sadness is the leaders are always chosen by the vast uneducated uncaring majority who seem to be motivated primarily by...

Shankar sir, I don't think that this is a bad thing. I'm not sure that if I was in the same position, I would vote any differently. Specifically in the context of this thread, why would I vote for a government that promises better road infra when I can't afford a car in the foreseeable future?

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

If our blokes had had the foresight then we would not be struggling in this manner in our cities and towns of today.

Again, while I certainly agree that our political leadership leaves much to be desired, and again sticking to the context of this particular thread, when it comes to traffic woes, I think our car-driving class is equally, if not more culpable.

The government is not forcing us to buy bigger cars to use on roads that can barely accommodate small cars. The government does not ask us to buy cars when we don't have parking at home and then park on the road. We all love to patronize restaurants that offer 'valet parking' - basically take my car and park it in front of some other bugger's gate.

And finally (my pet peeve!), even for jobs that can be done remote, we tell thousands of our employees to spend hours on the road to congregate everyday in large glass towers with poorly planned entry and exits!

Which government would not take the money generated from such activities and give it to the voter class that will keep them in power?

[ghodlur]

Originally Posted by am1m

why would I vote for a government that promises better road infra when I can't afford a car in the foreseeable future?

I beg to differ here. Even if the affordability is not for a car but for better commute either through public or private transportation a good road infrastructure is a must. I don't stop thanking whichever govt provided the NH 48 roads in KA everytime I travel. At same time I loathe the govt for the delay in the Dharwad Hubli section. That does not stop me for voting any govt which promises me better infrastructure.

[PreludeSH]

Originally Posted by ghodlur

I beg to differ here. Even if the affordability is not for a car but for better commute either through public or private transportation a good road infrastructure is a must. I don't stop thanking whichever govt provided the NH 48 roads in KA everytime I travel. At same time I loathe the govt for the delay in the Dharwad Hubli section. That does not stop me for voting any govt which promises me better infrastructure.

They say roads contribute to economy. I think it has happened. But this has resulted in inequality growing. If I have to think about food/shelter and roads, I would think more about the former. The promise of improving lives of people in poverty has not happened. That is the tragedy.

For me, roads have improved my life. But its about tourism, meeting dear ones more often etc. With inflation and taxes, savings have not increased that much. Holistically, it hasnt improved much.

[SidTheChamp]

While we think that if govt change , the roads will miraculously become good. It doesn't happen that way. No. Of vehicles wont reduce , it would only increase. Road condition may change slightly but not dramatic change. Corruption will be there. And in big cities, choc a bloc will continue as vehicles are multiple times the capacity of roads.

For eg. Maharashtra roads are bad. This has been for years whoever the govt is. They fix some roads , again it goes bad. And there is corruption in road tender, layout and maintenance. Plus sometimes trucks are allowed in cities in daytime by some lazy or corrupt policeman causing havoc in the town.

In comparison, Rajasthan roads are good. Because it has been good for a long time and it doesn't get bad so easily whether govt changes or not.

And finally one point i liked. We expect IT industry leaders to be better than politicians. But they all jumped in unison to force people to come to office whether needed or not. They only wanted more control over employees. No thoughts for society and traffic. In cities, the traffic became mad only after WFH was discontinued and hybrid mode started.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by SidTheChamp

We expect IT industry leaders to be better than politicians. But they all jumped in unison...

After more than 2 decades in the IT industry, I've seen several similarities between big private companies and government departments, including the way employees at all different levels behave. So people are fundamentally the same, the systems make them the way they are.

Originally Posted by SidTheChamp

No. Of vehicles wont reduce , it would only increase.

Honestly, while I enjoy posting here the most, it is after all a rants thread, I think for the majority of people, traffic is not a big issue at all.

More people are buying bigger cars; people still love to drive to tourist spots and city locations they already know will be crowded; it's most of us employees who are stuck in traffic everyday but if you go to the wfh thread, most of us also support the party, oh I mean management line that our fellow employees can't "be trusted to work honestly" remote; more people are pouring in to the cities.

Why should the government change a good thing that most people are ok with?

For those of us in the minority who don't want to live a significant percentage of their lives stuck in traffic, the only option right now is to try and structure our lives so that we can avoid as much of that as possible. I don't see any real structural changes, either from the government side or us traffic-causing public side till things get much, much worse.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by am1m

Shankar sir, I don't think that this is a bad thing. I'm not sure that if I was in the same position, I would vote any differently.
Which government would not take the money generated from such activities and give it to the voter class that will keep them in power?

This is the perfect illustration of democratic debate and differing points of view.

Yes, a poor person who can never in this lifetime own a car may well vote only for the politician who promises him free food.

Yes, we car owner folks are buying more and bigger cars in order to brave the broken infra.

(But we also pay taxes. And it is not wrong to expect ROI on one’s investment!)

Yes, many of us patronize restaurants and have to use valet parking and indeed the valet will park neatly while inconveniencing someone else.

(But we do pay our taxes and yet the powers that be, don't enforce any kind of zoning or checks and balances while granting permission to buildings. Every neighbourhood has residences cheek by jowl with commercial establishments and apartments. And apartments being built on sites once destined for single residences. 2400 sq foot plots which are vertically accommodating 8 apartments.)

Indeed it is very stupid for companies to demand and enforce 100% or even 50% work from office, in our traffic choked grid locked cities. There is an incredible loss of productive time. There is an incredible amount of traffic related stress.

However there is all that real estate and investments made in fancy offices with pool tables and whatnot.

And employers impose all the restrictions because they are simply unable to trust their employees. The ‘honour’ system simply doesn’t seem to work here.

Yes, this thread is going to be a never ending rant and the cities are only going to get worse as more and more folks flood into them.

There is no one size fits all answer. We need things to change from very deep within. And the tragedy is that I do not think we will see this happen in our lifetimes.

So perhaps the only way is after say another 10 years (if we are able to manage for that long), maybe we should buzz off and live in a quieter place.

[Naetik30]

Originally Posted by Jazzybala

It comes down to a strong civic sense too. There are plenty of us literate urban citizens who still choose their representives based on their community and their regional sentiments(within the same state as the city are living in), instead of coalescing as an one to demand a much more inclusive development for the betterment of the city and the state as a whole.

I agree with most of your comments. What little activism for public transportation in Bangalore especially is hijacked by vested interests. In particular, there is one gentleman 'Srini... A' who calls himself a public transportation stalwart. But all he is - is a front for the autodrivers union.

So at the end, the public is left with pathetic infra.

[KrisTvpm]

Saw some news about a Bengaluru entrepreneur suggesting an app for "pothole rating"!

This sterling idea set me thinking of other such options:

* Just as Bannerghatta/Mysuru zoos have option to "sponsor" their animal inmates, why not GoK / BBMP give option for civilians to have major traffic bottlenecks/roads-turning-into-rivers etc in our names, but without any further payout from us (we already sponsor their pockets via taxes/bribes etc) and needless to say, without any responsibility by the govt. bodies to fix those!?

* Turn the major water leaks/cascades from metro bridges into temporary waterfalls & collect fees from visitors; add some colour LED bulbs atop to improve customer experience too

* BBMP could introduce monsoon-special boat-service for Bengaluru roads, with hefty fares

* Similar to radio cab services, private agencies can launch rent-a-boat, luxury/AC ones unlike BBMP's cattle-class boats

...

Baadal Nanjundaswamy stays ever-relevant, all thanks GoK & BBMP (image credit: newspapers)

[itwasntme]

VVIP visit at Palace Grounds today:
https://www.hindustantimes.com/citie...779154136.html

[binand]

Originally Posted by itwasntme

VVIP visit at Palace Grounds today

Who is the VVIP, and why is their name such a closely guarded secret? It is not mentioned in any press report of the restrictions (which all seem to be identically worded, so I suspect a press release).