[joslicx]

I know for sure that in Noida there was a traffic baba, a person who used to try something similar. He'd station himself at various crossings and try to install some traffic sense in people (simple things like not jumping signals or wearing helmets etc). it was very effective. Dont know if he is still there.

EDIT: found a link about him
http://www.newzstreet.com/noida/news.php?news_id=25930

also once the court gave unique punishment to repeat offenders in Delhi. They were made to stand at busy crossings and help traffic police regulate traffic. Dont know either if it is still followed.

Bangalore can try something similar.

[benbsb29]

Originally Posted by sansvk

Exactly, I stopped using this strech in the evenings between 5.30 and 7.30pm. I prefer to wait it out at the Kundalhalli junction rather than fighting it out with these morons as seen in the photo above.

I have switched to using the Varthur route to avoid this mess. Really makes you start the day on a bad note.

[Zed]

Originally Posted by binand

Doesn't work. As psychological research has shown, imposing fines only legitimizes in the mind of the offender the offense he is about to commit. In India for example, instead of "I shouldn't jump that signal", it becomes "it will cost me only Rs. 500 to jump that signal" and then it is merely a question of affordability or cost-vs-benefit - the moral aspect goes out of the window.

Which is why I emphasis on the word hefty. I paid a fine of € 190 (~ Rs 13k) for doing 97 kmph in an 80 kmph zone during a trip to switzerland. It was a 100 kmph stretch with an 80 kmph restriction on account of roadworks. Although Ive always been a cautious driver im now extra cautions when driving in switzerland.

The point is what if the traffic violation fine were Rs 5000 instead of Rs 500 ? ( Or proportional to the category of vehicle considering the wide social disparity among road users - an idea discussed elsewhere in this forum ).

Would this not be an effective deterrent ?

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by Zed

The point is what if the traffic violation fine were Rs 5000 instead of Rs 500 ? ( Or proportional to the category of vehicle considering the wide social disparity among road users - an idea discussed elsewhere in this forum ).

Would this not be an effective deterrent ?

I totally second that. Make the fine amounts to rs 5000 and you will see 99% of the people following the rules religiously. But then the hard part of this is that first you need to ensure that there are proper sign boards regarding verious rules on our roads like clearly marked no parking zones, speed limits on various roads and so on.

[vikram_d]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

I totally second that. Make the fine amounts to rs 5000 and you will see 99% of the people following the rules religiously. But then the hard part of this is that first you need to ensure that there are proper sign boards regarding verious rules on our roads like clearly marked no parking zones, speed limits on various roads and so on.

Speed limits in Bangalore are really simple. They have made a blanket rule of 60kmph for cars all over Bangalore except on the road going to BIAL Airport and the elevated express way.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by Zed

Which is why I emphasis on the word hefty. I paid a fine of € 190 (~ Rs 13k) for doing 97 kmph in an 80 kmph zone during a trip to switzerland. It was a 100 kmph stretch with an 80 kmph restriction on account of roadworks. Although Ive always been a cautious driver im now extra cautions when driving in switzerland.

The point is what if the traffic violation fine were Rs 5000 instead of Rs 500 ? ( Or proportional to the category of vehicle considering the wide social disparity among road users - an idea discussed elsewhere in this forum ).

Would this not be an effective deterrent ?

All this is wonderful but doomed to remain in the realms of theory. Until we are serious about governance, being governed and enforcement as well as self regulation, this will remain a dream.

[shashank.nk]

Increasing the fines will hardly solve the situation in our cities. The key is enforcement of these rules. If one has to pay Rs.5000 in place of Rs. 500 to a traffic cop, in all likelihood he's gonna pay 500 and getaway without a receipt.

The best way i see this working atleast to an extent, is to ensure fines are paid online. The SI should issue a note of the violation and the fine to be paid, the owner should later pay the same online, and if he fails to do so in a reasonable amount of time, appropriate action should be taken.

I notice a lot more cops with BB's these days, so checking if fines are due shouldn't be an issue.

[sansvk]

Originally Posted by shashank.nk

The key is enforcement of these rules.

I agree with the above statement. I would also like to see more patrolling by the traffic cops. They are understaffed no doubt, let them install cameras and latest traffic management gizmos at traffic junctions and let a central control team manage the traffic depending on density.
Take for example a strech between Kundalalhalli junction and Graphite India. The road its a 4 lane road with 2 lanes in one direction. But on the whole strech you will find private buses parked opp to the hypercity busstop; taxis & buses parked near a service apartment before Cosmos mall; vehicles of all sizes parked at regular intervals between Cosmos mall and all the way upto the Kundalalhalli village. All this makes this strech a one lane road. I would like the traffic cops to be given a fuel efficient two wheeler where they go around on an hourly basis collecting fines from these offenders. The whole notion of cops visible only near signals would change and this would certainly be a deterent to all who park on this strech.
Mobilise the traffic police and you will certainly see a difference.

[binand]

Originally Posted by Zed

The point is what if the traffic violation fine were Rs 5000 instead of Rs 500 ?

Would this not be an effective deterrent ?

Originally Posted by shashank.nk

If one has to pay Rs.5000 in place of Rs. 500 to a traffic cop, in all likelihood he's gonna pay 500 and getaway without a receipt.

There you are. This is the problem with disproportionate fines - people will just bribe their way out. Plus there is the consideration of natural justice - that the punishment should be commensurate with the crime - so the moment a Rs. 5000 fine for jumping a traffic light comes to the attention of the supreme court, it will be thrown out, considering the fines for several far more serious sections of the IPC are in the 1000-2000 range.

Originally Posted by shashank.nk

The best way i see this working atleast to an extent, is to ensure fines are paid online.

How can this work, in a country where Internet penetration is estimated at 12%, and e-Commerce (ie, online transactions) is much lower (2-3%)?

[shashank.nk]

Originally Posted by binand

How can this work, in a country where Internet penetration is estimated at 12%, and e-Commerce (ie, online transactions) is much lower (2-3%)?

I didn't suggest a nationwide implementation. It was more for Bangalore and other metros.

As for those without internet connectivity in the city, they can always pay at Bangalore one centers.

[binand]

Originally Posted by shashank.nk

I didn't suggest a nationwide implementation. It was more for Bangalore and other metros.

As for those without internet connectivity in the city, they can always pay at Bangalore one centers.

In India, Internet penetration in Bangalore is quite low among the metros and tier 1 cities (Ref: Bangalore has least number of Net users).

In any case, the scheme you proposed wouldn't work unless (a) the RTO records are computerized nationwide, (b) they are accurately tracked and updated (does your car's RTO record move with you when you move apartments?) and (c) the states evolve a method of checking vehicles against each others' records. For example, several of the water supply tractors that serve my area (Marathahalli) sport AP-03 or AP-04 number plates (if they sport one at all). How does the SI determine who the owner of the vehicle is, and where to send the fine notification?

[shashank.nk]

Originally Posted by binand

In India, Internet penetration in Bangalore is quite low among the metros and tier 1 cities (Ref: Bangalore has least number of Net users).

That's why i suggested paying at Bangalore One centers.

Originally Posted by binand

In any case, the scheme you proposed wouldn't work unless (a) the RTO records are computerized nationwide,

Like i said, this was more bangalore specific. As far as i know, most of the new cars registered have their details registered online when a smartcard is issued. Don't know exactly how many RTO's are fully computerized though.

Originally Posted by binand

(b) they are accurately tracked and updated (does your car's RTO record move with you when you move apartments?)

When you change apartments, it amounts to change of address. On the RTO site a quick search threw up procedures to be followed for change of address for outstation vehicles, something similar would be applicable for change of address within the same state. So rest assured, the RTO will have a track of your address.

Originally Posted by binand

(c) the states evolve a method of checking vehicles against each others' records. For example, several of the water supply tractors that serve my area (Marathahalli) sport AP-03 or AP-04 number plates (if they sport one at all). How does the SI determine who the owner of the vehicle is, and where to send the fine notification?

I agree that record matching between 2 states is still not present. However, the SI can ensure these vehicles ply with a valid NOC, as that will mean both AP and KA RTO's have a record of the vehicle. Logically, the fine should be paid in the state of violation.

Thanks

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by shashank.nk

That's why i suggested paying at Bangalore One centers.

I was just going to bring this up as I was reading through the conversation.

Bangalore One would be the best option. They should insure that cash transaction should be zilch between the cop and the violator. Just give him a slip and move on. No question of arguing or anything.

And the fines should be EXORBITANT. And I mean, seriously huge. No more of this 100 bucks thing. Violations like driving the wrong side on a one-way, no seat-belt, parking on busy roads should be 1000 bucks. Rash driving and DUI should be a court-slip and nothing else.

[shashank.nk]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Bangalore One would be the best option. They should insure that cash transaction should be zilch between the cop and the violator. Just give him a slip and move on. No question of arguing or anything.

That's my point! The source of corruption is the transaction between the offender and the cop, lets cut it off and you've a solution to corruption. Its the only way i can think of to ensure HUGE fines, if levied, will be a deterrent to regular traffic offenders and bring some discipline to the chaos on roads.

Only problem i see is, the 'i've got contacts' kinda people getting away from this.

[joslicx]

shashank

If that was implemented, why would cop give you a ticket? he would just make a deal with you - no ticket for 500!

The rules are already there. theres no need for anymore. what is needed is for people who drive vehicles to be educated about the rules. that would be a start, for starters. More than half of people driving on our roads do not know the rules even educated folks.

Large fines are never a deterrent in corrupt regimes. they are all the more reasons for more public harassment.