[manuc]

Dear All,

I am sure we have all come across people in public service (Politicians, Govt. officials, Police, bureaucrats, military personnel etc.) abusing their position on Indian roads by brazenly flouting rules. Seeing such behavior is shameful to say the least and I’m sure many of you feel the same. With the permission of the Admins I’d like to start a thread to report such behavior whenever encountered by any Team BHP member. Here’s the first-


Location/Date: Gurgaon/ 30-Jul-10
This seems to be the 'private' (not Military registration) car of a supposedly senior Army officer. From the one star badge it would indicate a rank of a 'Brigadier'. In addition to the Star if the front & back he has a Red light at the top, flag/insignia at the front in this private vehicle. No other occupants other than the person driving it. Could only manage pictures of the back.

[aaggoswami]

1) This attitude shows why India is still not able to progress as compared to other nations. You really cant help the situation. I prefer not to indulge with any kind of conversation with people whose cars are marked with symbols like the you have posted.

2) There is already a thread running on this topic.

[TaureanBull]

No Knowledge is better than half-cooked knowledge. No offence to anyone to begin with. At the very start you are not sure about the vehicle and you want to accuse. Lets get the facts straight first.

Let me inform you that this vehicle is for a person who is equivalent to Brigadier rank of IAF. This vehicle has been hired for him as he is authorized a vehicle and for administrative reasons can not be provided with defence vehicle. What ever has been displayed including the star, the flag and red siren is authorized to him by the president of India. When ever he is using an official vehicle (even if its a hired one) he is authorized to do so. He can not do that on his private vehicle. Its very rare to find them using siren and pushing their way through which is true for all politicians. He is no rouge like a politician who has 5 vehicles like this unauthorized and no one to comment or check.

That was as far as the facts are concerned. BTW how has this person abused his position on the road can you clarify? Just displaying these symbols which he has been authorized by the GOI and none less the President.

The wrong thing I see here is that the plates should be coverd, flag taken off and siren kept inside/switched off when the person authorized is not present inside. Well, it can be taught to a defence personnel not to a civilian. The civilian driver here seems to be misusing the power.

If at all you feel offended and think its wrong you must report to police.

[Samurai]

Actually I feel bad that such a high ranked Army official can only afford a bashed up Santro, while the local corporators run around in SUVs.

[Arkin evoisrevo]

@Taurenbull:
Brigadier rank officials are eligible for a black Amby/black sedan owned by the Defence OR if at all a hired vehicle, definitely not something like a Santro. They are eligible for cars like an SX4 or higher.
Back to the topic, this is just blashpemous.
I have seen 3 cars so far in Bangalore with "Government of India" stickers. This includes an A-star belonging to my dad's colleauge. I'm proud that my dad has't stuck such a sticker on his car, but I've never seen a private car with Govt. board, Beacon Light and such.

[TaureanBull]

Originally Posted by Arkin evoisrevo

@Taurenbull:
Brigadier rank officials are eligible for a black Amby/black sedan owned by the Defence OR if at all a hired vehicle, definitely not something like a Santro. They are eligible for cars like an SX4 or higher.
Back to the topic, this is just blashpemous.
I have seen 3 cars so far in Bangalore with "Government of India" stickers. This includes an A-star belonging to my dad's colleauge. I'm proud that my dad has't stuck such a sticker on his car, but I've never seen a private car with Govt. board, Beacon Light and such.

Please again let me tell you your information is wrong. They are eligible for those vehicles you mentioned when they are at their station of duty. Imagine an officer travels from Trivandrum to Delhi for Temporary Duty. What can he do? He is not authorized to drive all the way. A vehicle is hired for him for the period of his stay. There are no spare vehicles to give it to him.

If you have not seen private cars like that then it does not mean that becomes a fact. Go to Delhi Cantt and you will see plenty of them. I also pity for the poor officer that a santro was hired for him. It is not HIS private car let me clarify.

[adnaps]

Originally Posted by TaureanBull

No Knowledge is better than half-cooked knowledge. No offence to anyone to begin with. At the very start you are not sure about the vehicle and you want to accuse. Lets get the facts straight first.

Let me inform you that this vehicle is for a person who is equivalent to Brigadier rank of IAF. This vehicle has been hired for him as he is authorized a vehicle and for administrative reasons can not be provided with defence vehicle. What ever has been displayed including the star, the flag and red siren is authorized to him by the president of India. When ever he is using an official vehicle (even if its a hired one) he is authorized to do so. He can not do that on his private vehicle. Its very rare to find them using siren and pushing their way through which is true for all politicians. He is no rouge like a politician who has 5 vehicles like this unauthorized and no one to comment or check.


The wrong thing I see here is that the plates should be coverd, flag taken off and siren kept inside/switched off when the person authorized is not present inside. Well, it can be taught to a defence personnel not to a civilian. The civilian driver here seems to be misusing the power.

If at all you feel offended and think its wrong you must report to police.

1. Did the President authorize the use of the letters "ARMY" ? If so why are they not used on other Army vehicles.
2. How come a white board vehicle is taken on hire , should it not be a yellow board vehicle ?
3. It is the responsibility of the authority who hired the vehicle to ensure that the civilian driver (if the driver is civilian) knows and complies with the regulation.

To me it appears that not everything is above board in this example

Last but not the least , Brigadiers are in the army and not in IAF

[TaureanBull]

Originally Posted by adnaps

1. Did the President authorize the use of the letters "ARMY" ? If so why are they not used on other Army vehicles.
2. How come a white board vehicle is taken on hire , should it not be a yellow board vehicle ?
3. It is the responsibility of the authority who hired the vehicle to ensure that the civilian driver (if the driver is civilian) knows and complies with the regulation.

To me it appears that not everything is above board in this example

Last but not the least , Brigadiers are in the army and not in IAF

Your last one first. Please read clearly. I said equivalent of Brigadier. What I meant was equivalent rank of Brigadier in IAF (not of IAF). I am much better informed on the subject because its first hand.

Please catch the agency which provided the vehicle. The contract is with him.

How do you ensure that the driver complies? If you put these symbols on your car and drive around how can defence be responsible for it?

No "ARMY" is unauthorised. But the logic here is and arguable that if you write "GOD" on your car you are not one. Write what you want on your car until you want to use that to your advantage.

Believe me if he uses this on his private car he would be court martialled.

It seems like I am hurting the popular sentiments. I am just providing info. Take it if you like or keep believing what you think is correct.

BTW, since a civilian driver was spotted using that symbols how can anyone say that defence personnel is misusing the authority? Is it a guess the officer was driving himself his private vehicle?

[suman]

Originally Posted by manuc

This seems to be the 'private' (not Military registration) car of a supposedly senior Army officer. From the one star badge it would indicate a rank of a 'Brigadier'.

Originally Posted by TaureanBull

No Knowledge is better than half-cooked knowledge. No offence to anyone to begin with. At the very start you are not sure about the vehicle and you want to accuse. Lets get the facts straight first.

Let me inform you that this vehicle is for a person who is equivalent to Brigadier rank of IAF.

Just for my understanding, what did manuc say that was half-cooked?

Originally Posted by TaureanBull

This vehicle has been hired for him as he is authorized a vehicle and for administrative reasons can not be provided with defence vehicle.

I disagree. A hired vehicle would have commercial plates, not a private registration. Going by the registration series, this is a VIP number, a hired car would not have this series.....

Originally Posted by TaureanBull

The wrong thing I see here is that the plates should be coverd, flag taken off and siren kept inside/switched off when the person authorized is not present inside. Well, it can be taught to a defence personnel not to a civilian. The civilian driver here seems to be misusing the power.

How are you sure there is a civilian driver at the wheel?

Originally Posted by TaureanBull

If at all you feel offended and think its wrong you must report to police.

He wants forum members to highlight similar cases or examples. I see nothing wrong with that. I don't want to generalize but I too have seen instances of vehicles with private registration & with "Army" etc stickers that drive aggressively & try to use these stickers to obtain right of way.....

[Arkin evoisrevo]

Originally Posted by TaureanBull

Please again let me tell you your information is wrong. They are eligible for those vehicles you mentioned when they are at their station of duty. Imagine an officer travels from Trivandrum to Delhi for Temporary Duty. What can he do? He is not authorized to drive all the way. A vehicle is hired for him for the period of his stay. There are no spare vehicles to give it to him.

If you have not seen private cars like that then it does not mean that becomes a fact. Go to Delhi Cantt and you will see plenty of them. I also pity for the poor officer that a santro was hired for him. It is not HIS private car let me clarify.

Please read the 2nd part of my posts again. My dad himself is a GOvt. Official, and I've seen only a single car owned by someone from his dept. with A goverment sticker. Just because a govt. board and laal batti is common in Delhi CAntt doesn't mean its a fact.

And, how can you be so sure the Santro is a hired car? D o you know the person in question personally?

EDIT: Almost all the cars owned by someone from the military I see have an 'ARMY' sticker on them. Maybe they are meant to showcase the army community, like TBHP stickers.

[TaureanBull]

So I am fighting against the odds. I am not supporting anyone or against anyone.

What he said wrong was use of position. Ok, as you say how can I be sure that he is a civilian. I ask you how can you be sure he is a defence personnel. So, when something clearly can not be defined do not blame. Secondly, as I said he is authorized to use it on a hired vehicle and private vehicle NO. IMO its a hired vehicle, because I have never seen in my life (not as a civilian) anyone using it on his private vehicle. If he has gone amok to use dont worry he would be court martialled soon.

@Arkin : I dont know status of your father. I am talking about a department I know of. These are common in Delhi because lot of officer come here on Temp Duties. And A Brigadier (equivalent rank in IAF and IN) are authorised these three items - Flag, Laal Batti, and Star plate.

Last to sum up : If you are of the opinion that he was the officer using his private vehicle like that he is DEFINITELY doing wrong. I wont say misusing power because that power was never their with him. What I am saying is it can be other way round too. Why always look at the one side of coin?

@Suman : I have also seen many people with army sticker doing that. Firstly, it does not prove that he is from army. Secondly I have seen (not generalizing again like you) countless number of people without any such sticker driving rash.

One more thing, if a defence personnel drives his vehicle rash what its go to do with his job/department?

[Gooney]

Disclaimer at the outset - No knowledge about the subject. Perception - The Indian Army would not allow such a shoddy vehicle to bear its flags (Even if it is a humble Santro, in all probability it will be black or maybe white AND immaculately maintained). Even if is a temporary vehicle and hired (which I doubt, atleast not for a brigadier) it will NOT be so shabby.

As for the "Army" stickers in private cars - Army personnel do not need to transfer their private vehicles when they are relocated. Neither their dependents.

[adnaps]

Originally Posted by TaureanBull

So I am fighting against the odds. I am not supporting anyone or against anyone.

@TaureanBull - Don't get us wrong, No one is fighting on this forum. We appreciate you for sharing your frank opinion, just that not everyone may always agree with you.

[TaureanBull]

Originally Posted by Gooney

Disclaimer at the outset - No knowledge about the subject. Perception - The Indian Army would not allow such a shoddy vehicle to bear its flags (Even if it is a humble Santro, in all probability it will be black or maybe white AND immaculately maintained). Even if is a temporary vehicle and hired (which I doubt, atleast not for a brigadier) it will NOT be so shabby.

As for the "Army" stickers in private cars - Army personnel do not need to transfer their private vehicles when they are relocated. Neither their dependents.

When the budget provided is minimum thats what can happen. Thats whats the story of the Armed Forces my friend. Dont you see so many people opposing?

Originally Posted by adnaps

@TaureanBull - Don't get us wrong, No one is fighting on this forum. We appreciate you for sharing your frank opinion, just that not everyone may always agree with you.

Thanks. I dont want anyone to agree with me. I just want people to consider facts and then blame. Like I said I am not defending anyone here. Lots of people here are commenting on the basis of "guesse" and poor knowledge of the system. Some people think any defence personnel can just put them and roam around.

If someone is doing it he should be admonished and will be admonished. The justice in defence is speedier. If the author confirms that he was a defence officer driving his private car like that, I am first one do support him. But not on mere guesses.

[suman]

Originally Posted by TaureanBull

I have never seen in my life (not as a civilian) anyone using it on his private vehicle. If he has gone amok to use dont worry he would be court martialled soon.

TB, allow me to share a first hand experience with you. We lived in GK II for almost six years (Sept 2000 to April 2006) & our landlord's son was a retired Army Officer. He had a red Zen, PB registered, with an Army sticker on it. I last met him in Dec 2009 & he was still driving that Zen.....and it still had the sticker. And I know for a fact that it is his personal car.