[Joy]

Originally Posted by MX6

......
I don't know who exactly to blame. The zen guy fled the scene making it clear that there's some law he broke and didn't want to be held responsible.
......

But you have consider today's state of India. There is a thread in TBHP where in a member who tried to help a fellow citizen from accident is himself suffering. Here is the link: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...-accident.html.

By the way, whoever is complaining (I am not getting into controversy) can they handle the situation if the zen estilo guy knows the proper connections and turn the tables on them.

I think the best solution is what many had already suggested that you take the FIAT into a garage and get it repaired.

Also, even if you get hold of him, you can do nothing as:
1) his car might be fully insured and your car is not. And since, no third party is injured, the insurance company is not liable to pay.
2) he is just learning with a "L" board. There is a provision in law where in you have to be careful about learner's.
3) You can't demand your car's compensation, of course, you can file a case but ultimately he will go Scot free and he deems it right, he can even claim damage to his reputation and turn the tables on you guys.

So, think of every option before you take any concrete step.

[funkykar]

Thankyou Joy and others for all your valuable views.

As I wasn't there in the Fiat at the time of accident, I can say anything more.

But to solve the mystery, some of we Fiat 1100 Club guys along with Sujith, plan to go to the accident site and do a detailed investigation as to what exactly happened, just for learning experiance.

FCB report soon!

[bblost]

Originally Posted by Joy

2) he is just learning with a "L" board. There is a provision in law where in you have to be careful about learner's.

To the best of my knowledge there is no such thing. Can you provide some documentary proof about this.

But to solve the mystery, some of we Fiat 1100 Club guys along with Sujith, plan to go to the accident site and do a detailed investigation as to what exactly happened, just for learning experiance.

I smashed my bike a couple of months back.
Went back the next day and spent some time at the accident spot to analyse what went wrong.

[fordperfect]

If the accident happened exactly as it is shown in the video, it is mainly the fault of the car making the right turn. If I had been in the car on the coming on the opposite side, you can rest assured that I would be the one filing an FIR and suing for compensation.

If you think it's ok to "poke the nose of the car into the fast lane on the opposite side", I can only hope I never run into you in an intersection. I'm not saying I never do it when I need to take a U turn quickly, but so far I've been careful enough to not cause accidents.

--
As for this particular incident, it might have turned out quite differently from what is depicted in the video, so I can't comment.

[Gansan]

The Estilo chap might have been a new driver alright, but not necessarily one with a learner's licence. A lot of people leave the L sticker on for reasons of safety even after getting their permanent licence, for the first few months of driving at least. Especially if it is a new car.

[aargee]

Originally Posted by Gansan

A lot of people leave the L sticker on for reasons of safety even after getting their permanent licence, for the first few months of driving at least.

So isn't that considered an offence? I mean, when you've a permanent driving license, sticking a "L" board on the car? Just asking out of curiosity.

[funkykar]

I too feel its not correct to have a 'L' sticker for a person holding a permanent license. Other side of story could be a family member could be learning, hence the 'L' is left out.

Also, let alone who was at fault or who had the right of way, some of them on this thread kind of indirectly support hit and run to avoid further consequences(bad ones of course). I strongly disagree. However bad it could turn out to be, one has to stop and call the police immediately. Not all police are corrupt and harass and not all accidents turn out to be bad experiences. Moreover, after the hit and run, when he continues speeding to escape consequences, thats when the driving gets REALLY dangerous. Sub consciously driving fast (to some) is different from purposefully driving fast. That too an L loard guy could have caused further mishaps while escaping.

At the max what would have happened to the Zen Estilo (forget whose mistake it was in this accident), if proved guilty, he might have had to cough up a few thousands. If he sped away and committed another mishap, I have no comments. Irrespective of whose mistake caused the accident, the Estilo guy is definitely guilt of hit and run which is a bigger offense than the accident itself.

Never hit and run. If you cant dare to face consequences, why drive? Use public transport.

I too had a terrible experience in 2003. I too was a learner. At 23:50, a chilly Bangalore night, I was taking a right turn. I was very cautious and started the turn. No one was ahead or behind me. Once I started turning right, a high speed modded RX 135 (bike did not even have a headlight) banged my cars left door. I absolutely dint spot the bike without lights and the street lights were off. The riders on the bike flew over 20 meters. Bike totally shattered and both riders on street with heavy blood loss. In the dead of the night, I could so easily escaped. There was no one on the street and no way anyone could have noted my number. Also, the area where accident occured is kind of a area with many unruly people. I didnt care. I stopped immediately, got the riders some help. I got in touch with a beat constable and headed to the station. The riders were apparently very drunk. Police dint let the doctors certify them as drunk since they would be in all sorts of trouble including insurance. Police just cut a deal with me asking me to confess guilty so that the bikders get insurance. I just did that. All I spent was 5k. The thing is I did not put the bikers in trouble after the accident and ensured everything went well until they recovered. Insurance took care of everything. I know of many friends who met with accidents like this, not a single hit and run. May be that was the reason I really got mad at the Zen Estilo guy who ran away after the accident

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by aargee

So isn't that considered an offence? I mean, when you've a permanent driving license, sticking a "L" board on the car? Just asking out of curiosity.

No, it is not. A learner (with L licence) should not masquerade as an experienced driver, should display an L board, must have someone with a permanent licence on board while driving and all that, but an experienced driver can pretend to be a learner to protect his car from dents!

Moreover if tomorrow my wife learns to drive, buys a new car and drives around with the L sticker, I can't be expected to remove it every time I myself take the car out, can I?

But generally all new drivers consider it below their dignity to sport the L sticker, and remove it within a couple of months.

[funkykar]

Also, one thing has been hovering my mind all the time. Why couldnt the Estilo come to halt on time. Assuming he is really a learner, it could be that at a decent high speed, he jammed the brakes and clutch? The car veered out of control and caused the accident. How effective is Estilo braking while the clutch is applied like say at around 70-80 kmph. Does it halt neatly or is it expected to brake without applying clutch or a typical gear down fashion?

[AlokSriva]

Originally Posted by funkykar

Also, let alone who was at fault or who had the right of way

Why should that be left alone? Breaching the right of way of other driver caused this accident. Thankfully there was no physical injury to anyone. Rather than counting lucky stars, we are continuing with the rant..

Again, this would be countered by stating that the Estilo was speeding. Who is there to verify this? In Bangalore where it is raining these days and roads are slippery, wheel locking can happen at a speed of 40 kmph as well. Now it is a case of word of one person against another.

Estilo was allegedly speeding whereas Fiat for sure breached the right of way. No rocket science to deduce who was at fault in this case.

Additionally, I have mentioned earlier too, nothing happened to a one year old kid in the accident who obviously was not in a baby seat should be the reason of rejoicing and not sulking over a damaged car. No matter how much I love my car, human life would always be more dear to me at least.

some of them on this thread kind of indirectly support hit and run to avoid further consequences(bad ones of course). I strongly disagree.

This is called as selective reading/interpretation. It was natural human psyche which was mentioned.

At the max what would have happened to the Zen Estilo (forget whose mistake it was in this accident), if proved guilty, he might have had to cough up a few thousands.

Why do we keep repeating 'forget whose mistake it was'? There was a mistake of poking one's nose in someone else's way and this caused the accident. It's all in black and white, they why should the very reason be overlooked/brushed aside under the carpet?
Considering the fact and circumstances, I am sure no stone would have been left unturned in proving him guilty instantaneously and forced to cough up.

If he sped away and committed another mishap, I have no comments.

I am sure it would have appeared in Bangalore Mirror if there was a subsequent accident he got involved in.

Irrespective of whose mistake caused the accident, the Estilo guy is definitely guilt of hit and run which is a bigger offense than the accident itself.

Yet again we are trying to keep aside the root cause and trying to treat a symptom!
I too don't approve of hit and run but somehow I feel this poor Estilo guy did the right thing for himself else he would be in trouble for no fault of his.
PLEASE NOTE - the emphasis I have layed on the text in bold and underlined. I do not subscribe to the theory of hit and run but if at the risk of facing mob ire/goons, I would rather leave the scene and go to the nearest police station. Sorry, I don't believe in mob justice. Period!

I too had a terrible experience in 2003.
.....
The riders were apparently very drunk. Police dint let the doctors certify them as drunk since they would be in all sorts of trouble including insurance. Police just cut a deal with me asking me to confess guilty so that the bikders get insurance. I just did that. All I spent was 5k. The thing is I did not put the bikers in trouble after the accident and ensured everything went well until they recovered. Insurance took care of everything.

I am absolutely speechless.. hang on, I need to pick my jaw..
Okay, am back..

You not only promoted corruption, you participated in it too!!
So the police made you cough up money, and they made bike guys cough up money and left you wiser with the fact that Insurance company took care of everything.. Wow!

Without taking anything away from you for the help you extended to the injured guys, I have a small question - Why couldn't you have registered an FIR against the drunk guys who caused this accident? Was that more prudent or was covering up a more sensible thing to do.

Now if one co-relates this old accident with the current estilo accident, there would be no marks for guessing what would have been the outcome.

[MX6]

@Funky. In 2003 "All" you spent was 5000 for an accident you didn't cause? While it was brave for you not to flee the scene and you did the right thing, both legally and morally, I'm surprised as to why you ended up accepting a mistake, which wasn't yours.
Is it because of the fact that you didn't want legal hassles?
2001 I was driving my uncle's maruti. A biker who was at a signal in the right ahead of me on Poonamallee high road, near Ega theater, cut in front of me and tried turning left in to a no-entry besides the theater, when the signal turned green.
I was irritated that this bugger cut's in front from right to left, but let it go.
Apparently he saw a cop standing at the corner and didn't want to be caught entering a no-entry, and like a crazy moron did a U-turn with all the highway traffic moving in a green signal and came directly in front of me.
I hit his bike and he fell.
Luckily, I'd have done only 20 or 25 kph and didn't run over him.
He had scracthes in his leg and when I got down to ask whether he was injured badly, he clenched his feet and started abusing me as to who gave me license and things. My Aunt was shocked and she literally had tears.
The crowd was gathering which apparently tried to support the biker.
The cop comes over and I tried explaining that this bugger made the mistake of cutting in front of me in to a no entry and then rashly swerved back in the last moment directly on to my car. I tried swerving not to hit him as there are other vehicles behind me. Managed to hit the rear end of his bike which resulted in him losing balance. At impact he was perpendicular to the road and to traffic.
This guy tried his histrionic skills to instigate public.
The police quickly dispersed the crowd. He told me that he watched everything.
He requested to drop him in a nearby hospital if possible and get him a tetanus injection and some first aid.
I took this bugger who was complaining all the time. Got him an injection and some dressing done in a hospital. Paid around 100 bucks. Put him in an auto back to Ega theater where his bike was parked.
There are good police. That was the only time I ever hit anyone. Accidents happen. Irrespective of how defensive one drives. Crowd always come to support the lesser previleged. Sometimes, god helps you immediately. Sometimes, he plays truant leaving you to learn a bigger lesson!
Once I was on a two wheeler and an Auto in chennai hit me! It was a very comical event. I shall relate it some other time.

[Joy]

Originally Posted by bblost

To the best of my knowledge there is no such thing. Can you provide some documentary proof about this.
.......

Sorry, I don't have any documentary evidence. I was told by a very senior driver when I was young about this and thought it must be a law. May be I am wrong? But those "L" board got have some meaning.

Also, I need to clarify here that I do not support hit and run incidents and one cannot argue who is right or wrong based on a single side story. One has to know both side of the story to come to any conclusion.

[revvinhard]

strange but truth. in india, irrespective of whose fault it is, by default its a fault of bigger vehicles all the time. if a pedestrian walks on street instead foot path and suddenly crosses the road and hits a bicycle, then its a fault of a bicycler. if a bicycler pokes the main road from cross road perpendicularly to the oncoming big vehicles and hit by those vehicles, its a fault of big vehicles. and same with car and trucks. accidents do happen because its an accident, accident is not a crime, but if you hit someone and run away its a crime, no excuse for that. even high influenced salam khan was also jailed.

[funkykar]

^^ All of you guys got my accident incident completely wrong. I did not simply go to the police station to bribe them and get away. I went through every single procedure of filing a complaint and the bikers too filed a counter complaint after 3 days. 5k was not just a ticket for me to get out of the mess. I paid a fine, and had to go through some miscelleneous expenses. Yes, it included a small bribe. Bribe was not to get out of the system and stay away from the mess. Bribe was to use the sytem and settle the matter. Only reason I did that was, some senior policemen told me that if I go to court and prove the bikers guilty (I had snaps of the damaged bike and clearly it showed no headlamps or not even a provision for one), they will not get a penny even from insurance. The cost of repairs of the bike and treatment in hospital for the bikers would have to borne by themselves since it was a drunk driving case. I showed sympathy and took the blame onto myself. The riders by the way incurred a few lakhs of hospitalization. One guy had a bad cut on his head and around 14 stiches were needed. I know I did justice by accepting the blame and dont really expect any further comments on this.

Regarding insurance thing, I was referring to the compensation and stuff that was done for the bikers, not my car. It was a easy task since it was cashless and they took care of everything from that point on. It saved me and the bikers time, nothing else.

Coming to the Estilo: Yes, I stated forget whose mistake it was. I made such statements as I was giving up on the incident since I too now believe it could be either partys fault. The video and the pictures were not made by a person who witnessed the accident nor involved in the accident. It may not have show the exact sequence of events that might have happened. We dont even have the Estilo guy to say his part of the story. In the entire incident, in my opinion the hit and run part is the most crimminal thing that happened.

[funkykar]

Originally Posted by revvinhard

strange but truth. in india, irrespective of whose fault it is, by default its a fault of bigger vehicles all the time. if a pedestrian walks on street instead foot path and suddenly crosses the road and hits a bicycle, then its a fault of a bicycler. if a bicycler pokes the main road from cross road perpendicularly to the oncoming big vehicles and hit by those vehicles, its a fault of big vehicles. and same with car and trucks. accidents do happen because its an accident, accident is not a crime, but if you hit someone and run away its a crime, no excuse for that. even high influenced salam khan was also jailed.

I agree! Its a unwritten rule that cops adhere by. They do this to settle the matter immediately. In a way this helps the financially weaker party. Its very bad though.

The Estilo really dint have anything to worry about since his car would have been insured. If he wasnt guilty he would have stopped I guess. Moreover, in a area like Koramagala, I dont think you would expect a mob to come and beat him up or anything for such an incident