[w 12]

Originally Posted by amitk26

Do you suggest that if a Kannadiga whole-seller goes to Ludihyana for buying wollens he should learn Punjabi so that he can travel safely in Autos ? If not why the same suggestion to person who do not know Kannada ?

Does the auto driver in Ludhiana or delhi learn kannada or tamil or telugu or malayalam , so that he can speak to his customers in their language ?

If not why the same suggestion to a person who does not know hindi. ?

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by w 12

Does the auto driver in Ludhiana or delhi learn kannada or tamil or telugu or malayalam , so that he can speak to his customers in their language ?

If not why the same suggestion to a person who does not know hindi. ?

Isn't this thread about beating by an auto guy. What does language have to do with anything?
Speaking of Auto Wallahs and police nexus, I have been in Chennai/BLR/Delhi/Punjab/CHD etc., and I have found that only in Bangalore and somewhat in Chennai, police will tolerate such rowdy behavior on the road by autowallahs.

Its a failure of police and administration. There is no law saying its okay to beat people who do not know local language.
If you are somehow justifying the beating, just because the guy does not know a language, you are a secret Xenophobic who would like to have your own country whose boundaries end at your city, and bar entry of anyone else. Fortunately, closet Xenophobes do not have a very large influence on the constitution, but they definitely do have a lot of influence on the local administration in many cities

[aqualeo2040]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Its a failure of police and administration. There is no law saying its okay to beat people who do not know local language.
If you are somehow justifying the beating, just because the guy does not know a language, you are a secret Xenophobic who would like to have your own country whose boundaries end at your city, and bar entry of anyone else.

Yes. Definitely there is a failure. Yes I also do agree to the point that the Bangalore Cops are more busy doing breath-analysis tests(it is definitely important) and lack the spine to chase up a autodriver who will not be able to shell out too much.
(I was witness to a situation when my friend was harrassed by the cops with the line " Tum North Indian log ..etc etc).

However, I beg to disagree to the vew that anyone here justified the beating! All of us Bhpians feel sad about it. Not knowing the lingo did not get the poor guy beaten up: nor can we predict what the scenario would have been if the guy spoke the local language. The language factor came in because we, as human beings, obviously want a channel of communication. I think that the point is being misconstrued.

Another factor we missed was that while the poor chap was getting beaten up, no one came to help. Do you honestly dont think that a shout of "What are you doing" in the local dialect would have drawn attention of more people?
I guess a crowd always responds better.
Anyways, we are only talking methods of deterrence here. The main issue of taking it up with Police is still pending.
Any views on that?

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by w 12

Does the auto driver in Ludhiana or delhi learn kannada or tamil or telugu or malayalam , so that he can speak to his customers in their language ?

If not why the same suggestion to a person who does not know hindi. ?

The question I asked was if a person is beaten up in Ludhiyana and does not know the local language would you discuss his linguistic skills rather then the crime and how to deal with it ?

I find this tendency to overlook the incidences disturbing , never mind I have my own way of dealing with rogues and till now it works

[w 12]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

There is no law saying its okay to beat people who do not know local language.
If you are somehow justifying the beating, just because the guy does not know a language, you are a secret Xenophobic who would like to have your own country whose boundaries end at your city, and bar entry of anyone else. Fortunately, closet Xenophobes do not have a very large influence on the constitution, but they definitely do have a lot of influence on the local administration in many cities

yaar TSK , stop reading between lines & branding people you do not know. That is being childish.

Where did I justify beating up by auto drivers ? My answer is in response to amitk who said "Afterall people in Taxi / Auto industry are supposed to ferry people speaking multiple languages from one point to another. " and then gave the example of auto driver in ludhiana. I am yet to come across an auto driver in delhi who will speak to me in kannada or any south indian language , as I am his paying customer and he is supposed to "know multiple languages to ferry people "

If it should be true in Bangalore it should be true in delhi or ludhiana as well..right?

[pramodkumar]

Common guys why is the tone and flavor of this thread changing all of a sudden? Why are we all speaking of language and all such crap? i speak very fluent Tamil and this is what happened to me this sunday.





Well the issue... OH well, it was Pongal this sunday and all the wine shops in chennai and the Entire Tamil Nadu (and pondy) were supposed to be closed, The auto driver was drunk like most of the others on the road(shall we blame the cops who pocketed 10k each from a bar owner?), he hit a bike guy coming wrong side(isint this a very common sight in chennai) Hit the divider and toppled. He left me and my friend to die there and ran away with his auto my friends watch, his phone and his wallet. After some good five minutes and 300 ML of blood loss i got up went to the nearest clinic and got our self treated.

The point is, all this happened at Tiruvanmiyur which is one of the highly populated places in chennai, All this happened at 1 PM so cannot say nobody was around. the auto guy has a toppled damage auto and got away with our belongings so cant say no one saw him.

The point is if things have to go wrong they will go wrong anywhere on earth, lets leave aside the chennai, bangalore etc talk.


Pramod

[amitk26]

W12 I pity the selective reading on your part , My post was clearly in response to another prior one which again comes back to linguistic skills or lack of them,

Time and again I have emphasized on this thread it has nothing to do with language but ego and effect of mass media. I quoted a real incidence from hindi heartland where effect of movie dabang resulted in a death.
But still despite the cleanup on this thread it is going in same circles .

I wish the closet xenophobes here face a similar situation of unprovoked physical attack and then they can check firsthand if their perceived local linguistic skills work.

[lohithrao]

Bangalore going the Delhi way! Very sad incident!

@flyingkolors how is your friend doing now?

Am still not able to get why the auto guy took such a ruthless step, either he was crazy or wanted to vent out his frustration or maybe he was provoked? since none of us were in the location we can just assume...
I hope he is caught before he does harm to anyone else….

btw i dont understand why this "language/local" thing pops up every time when such incidents occur? it gives me a feel that such things are happening only in Bangalore?

On the contrary have heard from many who dont speak the local lingo that they dont see the need to learn the language as they can do without it!

Auto guys fleecing customers is not just restricted to the non-localities, even locals face this regularly.

Even if there was a “local” instead of “flyingkolors” friend he would have faced similar consequence.

[noopster]

@pramodkumar- that sucks dude! So sorry for you and get well soon.

Guys- pls focus on the point of this thread instead of meandering into needless Ludhiana vs Bangalore discussions that don't help anybody.

The broad issues here are:
- Mob behaviour turning against the victim and in favour of the aggressor
- Police disinterest in registering a valid case against the aggressor
- Unacceptable behaviour in absolute terms by the aggressor

Let's focus on these shall we?

[kuttapan]

My thoughts are with the person who suffered the ordeal in the OP.

Language or not, there is a lot of scum amongst Bangalore Auto drivers. Union is their protective umbrella and they think they can go to any extreme. However, from my experience they back down when they realize that you are not a 'soft'-ie. If you can talk back, that too in native language, they usually don't bother, unless it is a criminal wearing khaki. In that situation, you would have to stoop down to his level and be ready for anything, which most of us wouldn't be.

The best response for honking from behind is no response, but that is easier said than done, on our roads. I used to reach office with boiling blood, just after a 4km drive to office, despite promising to myself that I will be patience personified for the day. You are better off not getting into ugly situations, the trick is to know when to back off and when to assert yourself. It is a truth that IT crowd is viewed as soft targets by the outer world.

Slightly OT :- How many of the IT crowd has picked up the kannada(can be Marathi/Tamil or whatever) language or interact with the local crowd? We can speak of parochialism, but it takes two to tango. People should make efforts to mix, rather than live in ghettos, which I think is a catalyst to local/outsider thinking. Maybe this behavior is endemic to humans, I see lot of ghettos in Australia as well.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by amitk26

W12 I pity the selective reading on your part , My post was clearly in response to another prior one which again comes back to linguistic skills or lack of them,

Time and again I have emphasized on this thread it has nothing to do with language but ego and effect of mass media. I quoted a real incidence from hindi heartland where effect of movie dabang resulted in a death.
But still despite the cleanup on this thread it is going in same circles .

I wish the closet xenophobes here face a similar situation of unprovoked physical attack and then they can check firsthand if their perceived local linguistic skills work.

I will be the first person to agree with you that road-rage itself is independent of region, language and all the stuff you can think of. It happens everywhere, all over the world, to and with all kinds of people.

Do remember that this thread is not just about what has happened, but also about suggesting ways how to avoid such things from happening. That's where the language suggestion comes into picture. Knowing the local language acts as a deterrent, and sometimes helps in defusing situations before they get out of hand. A man speaking the local language can make more people around him understand what he's trying to say, and that can sometimes make the difference between getting lynched or saved by the mob. This has nothing to do with bias for/against any particular language. Kannada helps in KA, Tamil in TN, Marathi in MH and Hindi just about anywhere in North and Central India. This isn't bias, just common sense.

And contradictory to what we might want to believe, all these people involved in road-rage cases aren't aliens descended from another planet. They're among us, all around us, in every walk of life. It's an auto driver in this case, might be a trucker tomorrow, a politician the next, some frustrated techie another day, an angry pedestrian sometime else.

Road-rage has no classified categories of people. Everybody is capable of it, depending one the circumstances. Me, you, everybody.

I think we all need a big chill-pill, on a national level.

P.S. I will readily admit that this doesn't help in every case. I've myself got into scraps back home in Bhopal even though I can speak Hindi as good as anybody there and had a local vehicle as well. There is no one-solution-fits-all remedy for road rage. All situations are different, and need to be handled accordingly. Keeping a calm head and putting safety on top priority is the best way forward in a road-rage case.

[w 12]

Originally Posted by amitk26

W12 I pity the selective reading on your part

I wish the closet xenophobes here face a similar situation of unprovoked physical attack and then they can check firsthand if their perceived local linguistic skills work.

to reiterate , Nobody here is justifying actions of auto driver.

and I pity your selective understanding & interpretation..branding & labelling people is the easy way out , when you do not have answers.

If you expect the auto driver in bangalore to understand hindi to serve his customers well, a similar driver in ludhiana or delhi should understand tamil or kannada to serve his customers too ..too difficult ?

[sunishsamuel]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

, and I have found that only in Bangalore and somewhat in Chennai, police will tolerate such rowdy behavior on the road by autowallahs.

Its a failure of police and administration.

+100 to that. Completely agree.

Please do not get personal here, let's take arguments with a critical angle and try to think over it. A fight is not necessary to prove a point, a value added discussion is what we need and the will to fight evil together regardless of which area/part of India we belong to.

I got agitated reading the first post (i don't know the victim) but that's really an irritating unfortunate incident. Had it been i at the place of victim i would have done something different (atleast i'd hope so) and retaliated badly. Why ? Its my nature that i would not want to take crap, come what may. Even it that means going to the police, case etc. Possibly because i have an advantage of being in the mightier side ! And i know if something happens to me, there would be someone from my family or a trust worthy friend who would pursue the matter on behalf of me. Let me keep the bad effects of such a situation for a moment. (and that thought makes me behave patiently and avoid confrontation unless extremely unavoidable) If possible, please pursue the matter with police and get the auto guy to pay up for his mistakes.

In this situation the people did not rush to help the victim because it was none of their business and they are not going to get any benefit (off topic but we all know why people around the locality demand money during accidents even if you offer to treat the victim at a world class hospital at your expense, or when you did not do any mistake). There is a benefit factor for them and trying to fish in troubled water.

The remaining office going/upper crest of the crowd stayed away from the scene, though they were around because they did not want to risk themselves in the process of helping someone (similar to situations where we see accident victims lying in a pool of blood to die) and fight with an auto guy. Would not blame the people, as in their heart they would have really wanted to help, but knowing and seeing the bad experiences in helping others, they just chose not to do so. Isn't it ?

Contradicting myself from previous posting at some point.

I don't believe but unfortunately "Might is Right" and this situation arose due to the complete failure of the law and order maintaining departments.

Here are some thoughts.

I consider all of India mine, and today I am at Bangalore, tomorrow if I feel like going to Bengal i would just do so. As long as I am an Indian citizen with a valid document to prove, i should have same preference everywhere and law should treat me without any bias. Shouldn't i be ?

The local/regionalistic tone to any argument/fight comes only when one side realize they are the losers. So if an auto guy ends up picking up a fight with a non localite physically/monetarily stronger than him, would he not lose ? Yes. And would he even fight ? No. What if he was fighting with an international gun wielding goon ? Answer is obvious. Might is right.

Once there was a heavy checking session going on near Salem, after a naxalite incident, police stopped me and spoke to me in bit English and Hindi requesting permission to check my car and at the same time talking rashly and abusively addressing a Tempo traveller driver from Karnataka in Tamil. In TN, they won't take a chance with SUV's as most of them would be owned by party officials or rich business men. He did not even bother about my regn as in his mind image matters (the image of SUV = mighty) So who has problem with language barrier ?

If language is an issue then how come people from all over India do business with each other ? They don't fight and even the guys who don't know the language of the seller/buyer speaks in English or Hindi and settles deals for profit ?

Also note, most people think that knowing local language means "localite" They assume he/she would know local contacts and hence issues get settled when you speak local language. Actually an element of fear is involved. Again Might wins.

Just two days back, an indicab tried overtaking me from the wrong side and stopped very close to before getting hit, and honked. I did take a chance and moved my car a bit more close and blocked him. Got down and with a smile asked him what's his problem in Hindi. He said i should speak in Kannada, and i spoke to him in hindi that he would not want to hear again (abuses). Suddenly he calms down and tells me that he did not want to hit me and stopped because he did not want to scratch "such a beautifully maintained car" He started speaking to me in Hindi and he is a guy from a community who speaks urdu but tried acting smart. He was just half the size of me so did not take a chance with me. So ?

I'd definitely try to avoid a confrontation with anyone because i have so much to worry anyways.

I have been in a similar situation and realized keeping quiet or not reacting won't get me any value add points for my good nature. And i'd ensure i would not try to defend my misdeed by reacting. If i did something wrong, i'd apologize and pay up for it, by repairing or replacing the damaged car part. But won't try to get into senseless defensive arguments for the sake of it. I even refused to take money from an elderly gentleman who said sorry holding my hand even though he damaged my lovely Rajdoot RD350 badly.

Hope some day

- we will learn to accept "NO" as an answer
- We will learn to say Sorry after committing a mistake
- Stop fighting within ourselves and start thinking about the country than the states except for administrative reasons.

And anyone for a beer ? Let's chill out guys

My thoughts go with the victim and i hope he would get over it soon and to his normal schedule. Some people can get badly affected and hope he gets the right support from his friends and family.

[amitk26]

While people are saying that knowing a local language could diffuse such situation my experience is that it can not.
You need to understand the psyche of the people involved and business behind it.

An auto driver is rarely owner himself , most probably he is always a migrant from some nearby place who hardly knows the routes. They pay a daily rent for the auto , Fuel and engine oil is on auto driver and the condition is that there must not be damage to auto. So to maximize the profits they refuse to travel by meter or ask 2X or 1.5 X. Any time wasted in traffic is direct hit on profits so that irritates them.

I had a long chat with auto driver once who was a nice guy most of these autos are owned by rowdys and /or police man . They have protection from police and also they fear the rival rowdys and refuse to go to area of rivals. They prefer to operate in the area where they have protection and behave like king and lords.

Only if they think the other guy is equally tough nut and can cause a damage to the thing which will draw ire of the owner they mallow down.

Originally Posted by w 12

If you expect the auto driver in bangalore to understand hindi to serve his customers well, a similar driver in ludhiana or delhi should understand tamil or kannada to serve his customers too ..too difficult ?

Since you seem to be stuck on certain issue I am putting the expectations and understanding in bold and caps with underline for one final time.

NO I DO NOT EXPECT HIM TO UNDERSTAND HINDI AT ALL
but I DO FULLY EXPECT HIM NOT TO RESORT TO ROWDY BEHAVIOR AND NOT TO INDULGE IN PHYSICAL violence.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by sunishsamuel

+100 to that. Completely agree.

Please do not get personal here, let's take arguments with a critical angle and try to think over it. A fight is not necessary to prove a point, a value added discussion is what we need and the will to fight evil together regardless of which area/part of India we belong to.

.............

Some really good insight there

Driving should be about the fun and the good memories, not the arguments, bruises and police cases. I hope the injured guy doesn't take this incident to heart. That would be the worst outcome.