[AdiSinghV12]

Incredibly overpriced considering the specs. Apart from that its certainly not a bad track car. A bigger exhaust minus the M-shaped thingy behind the seats and a price tag of around 40L OTR would blindly make me go for this over the caterham or the Ariel.

[HammerHead]

Originally Posted by pganapathy

In that case, a good superbike will decimate almost any supercar and is quicker round a track than most vehicles.

No its not as my reply was considering safety in mind!
Super cars are no only fast but are safe too.

What's the difference in terms of safety between a sports bike and this car or rather Go-Kart?

By the way when I first looked at this thread, I though GTO reviewed it lol

[pganapathy]

Originally Posted by HammerHead

No its not as my reply was considering safety in mind!
Super cars are no only fast but are safe too.

What's the difference in terms of safety between a sports bike and this car or rather Go-Kart?

By the way when I first looked at this thread, I though GTO reviewed it lol

Am guessing that this car has been crash tested. Come to that, a well designed go kart also has the advantage of a cocoon. The biggest problem with a bike is there is nothing restraining you from flying off at the speed of tue crash, while seatbelts in any four wheeler help keep you in one place and let's the chassis and car body take more impact.

But yes, a good superbike is way better in the adrenaline raising stakes.

[Mpower]

I take it its powered by a Ford Zetec crate motor.

The hot one probably has Cosworth internals.

[Chris C]

Originally Posted by howler

The motors sound pretty weedy, and for its MRP why would anyone pick this over an atom or a caterham (im guessin the prices are similar)? Epic fail IMO,

I find it interesting that you think the engine is weedy.

Firstly it is not easy to compare a mid engined car to a front engined car in this segment they are quite different in handling, as front engine cars struggle to put the power down so compaing power is somtimes not a sensible thing. The Atom however is a good comparison though it is not a direct competitor to the Typhoon because of its price and purpose.

Secondly which Chaterham are you refering to?, they have 8 road models a 1 track model, some have lower power and some have higher power?
In fact the UK prices of the chaterham like for like is actually more expensive fully specified, not by much but still its more expensive. Also the Atom is more than twice the price in the UK for the entry level honda engined one. Its a little like comparing a Veyron to a GTR

Finally, the Typhoon in the specifcation you see is designed more so as a Road/Track crossover with India in mind so a large number of features are not fully fleged motorsport specification or make the car driveable and reliable. If you have ever driven an atom in traffic you will know what I am refering to.

Originally Posted by vinair

55 lakhs for sheet metal folded and bolted?? man this is insane!!

Ariel Atom in comparison looks smashing and has a equal stunning engine!!

The car is not made of sheet metal it would weigh a lot more than 600kg if it was and have visibale riveted seams all the way along it too.

Originally Posted by howler

Atom all the way, jus look at the engine specs on this .appears to have been pulled out of any mid size sedan like a corolla. And the options? Sounds like a joke. The cat and the atom will just blow this thing away on the track

I find it intresting that you say on a track that you think that a chaterham would be faster, if it was lets say a roadsport with similar PWR then what factor would you say that would make this the case?

Very true that the atom would go faster since their engine develops 300 and revs higher. I personally hav a lot of respect for the designers at Ariel. If you were again to have the same PWR then I would ask what specifically makes you think that the atom would be faster? In fact there is something that fundamentally makes the atom slower on paper if they had an engine that delivered the same PWR, can you guess what it is, simply from looking at the pictures of the two?

Note from the Team-BHP Support: Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing one post after another on the same thread.

[Chris C]

Originally Posted by pganapathy

This car is going to be quick but needs a bit more work to become an absolute beast. Boost the engine. 2 litre evo engines put 400 bhp stock (lots of forged internals admittedly, but still) so more power and put it down properly on the road and you have a track day tool that is up there with the very best in the business. The light weight is really good though we need to see how the chassis and suspension handles. The blue print for a good track day is simple enough. Light weight, good coefficient of drag, good spoilers for downforce, good engine, good handling characteristics. Execution is the hard part.

The chassis is designed to take in the region of 400+bhp with solidy mounted engine so sothing is possible however its not designed to be a track beast otherwise it would not have lights, indicators and a numberplate.

Also one lapse of concentration in such a car and they would certianly be on the way to a medical facility!

Originally Posted by carfreak

Is the Atom available in India?any idea about the pricing as compared to the Typhoon?

In the UK the base model atom is more than twice as much as ours, so if they setup a manufacturing facility here like us then the car would be twice to three times as much (if you use standard pricing model which is to approximiately double the originating price). If they were to import fully bult then even more.

Originally Posted by Harrie

But the same product offered at say 15L+ would be a game changer.

It may be some time before this price point is reached as the costs of production of the components is very high due to volumes and specifications.

Production manufacturers use techiques to keep costs down however a lot of those are simply not applicable in the motorsport area not only becuase of volume but also because of the specifications.

Lets take an example our (2+2 pot) rear brake calipers are made from 3 blocks of high grade aliminium machined in a CNC machine that takes some 20-30 mins to achive the parts. Most mass motor manufactuers make them from cast steel one piece. Much heavier, less effective but much much cheaper. Try telling somebody in racing however that you have cast steel 1 pot calipers...

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Since it's hand made, all they need to do is get the parts down along with the tools and build it in India. Lower cost of labour will bring down the price considerably. I'm sure that the bulk of the 55lakhs price is super expensive british labour and the second highest is the import duty.

In fact the labour is not a limiting factor its actually the improt duty that is main cost followed by parts costs.
If India had the same level of duty for import vehicles as the UK then the car would be approx 20lakhs cheaper

Note from the Team-BHP Support: Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing one post after another on the same thread.
We advise you to read the Announcements and Board Rules section before proceeding any further.

[Harrie]

What engine / gearbox are you running on this car? Is the engine mounted transverse or longitudinally?

[Chris C]

Originally Posted by AdiSinghV12

Incredibly overpriced considering the specs. Apart from that its certainly not a bad track car. A bigger exhaust minus the M-shaped thingy behind the seats and a price tag of around 40L OTR would blindly make me go for this over the caterham or the Ariel.

When you say bigger exhaust what do you mean?

We would never remove the roll bar, it is required for UK approval in case of roll over which is very easy in a 600kg car!

We do have an FIA approved roll over bar however that is only avaliable in the UK at the moment. We are however making a staight top one too which will be an option soon.

We are the manufacturer so we can change things according to customer requirements as long as they are safe, sensible and pass the UK appproval tests.

Originally Posted by Harrie

What engine / gearbox are you running on this car? Is the engine mounted transverse or longitudinally?

To reduce weight the engine is transversely mid mounted.
The interior tunnel you see is for asthetics and to seperate the cabin. If you take a look at the gallery on our website http://www.profusion-exotic-cars.in/gallery/you will see a picture of the engine mounted in the car

Note from the Team-BHP Support: Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing one post after another on the same thread.
We advise you to read the Announcements and Board Rules section before proceeding any further.

[pganapathy]

Originally Posted by Chris C

The chassis is designed to take in the region of 400+bhp with solidy mounted engine so sothing is possible however its not designed to be a track beast otherwise it would not have lights, indicators and a numberplate.

Also one lapse of concentration in such a car and they would certianly be on the way to a medical facility!

Just because it is road legal does not mean it cannot be a track beast at the same time. Yes, removing things like lights, indicators etc will make it quicker and better on the track, but finally a good track vehicle is determined by the engine and chassis.

I agree that one lapse in concentration of a track beast can have dangerous consequences, but I unfortunately come from the old school. Do not make a car idiot proof. It spoils it. Yes, the dangers are more when you don't have a hundred electronic aids to keep you safe, but driving the cars is an extreme bore and waste of time. I would rather know that the only safety aids are my brain, my driving skill and and the brakes. Not 20 different electronic aids that would never have let me get into that position. Then I might as well not be driving the vehicle and have a computer do it for me. Why bother. I would rather go out in a blaze of glory doing what I enjoy doing than not be allowed to do it at all.

[Chris C]

Originally Posted by pganapathy

Just because it is road legal does not mean it cannot be a track beast at the same time. Yes, removing things like lights, indicators etc will make it quicker and better on the track, but finally a good track vehicle is determined by the engine and chassis.

Its intresting that I think we both agree and disagree at the same time!

I disagree because
If I was to make a track car only I would change a few things like:
-Changed the flywheel for a super light flywheel so the idle would need to be at least 1500rpm
-Changed the clutch from orgnaic standard spring to kevlar 3(or 4) paddle with uprated spring so you would need to rev to 3000 rpm to get away and you could not slip the clutch plus the clutch pedal would need 50% more force to move it.
-Supercharged the engine to gain 300 odd bhp so you would only be able to drive at road speeds purely on the anti stall revs thus had near zero engine braking. We would design it for top end power rather than low-mid torque so you would need to rev it to get any meaningful motion
-Install a sequential 6 speed gear box with lower ratios which would mean changing very frequently
-Stiffened the road strings to promote reduction of lean and quicker rebound
-Reduced ride hight to less than 10cm to reduce bump streer and to reduce high speed lift

These are things that would be very useful to you on a track however would make the car simply undriveable on the road in the UK let alone in India were traffic is closer to you. I only say this from experiencing the high end Chaterhams, Atom and X-Bow on the UK roads

All this said, this is why we are also planning a race track only car based on similar setup but with these additional changes. I dont think we would ever offer this for the road. If you look at the new Chaterhams they are also now restricting their top end models for the track only.


I agree because:
We also dont like driving aids, we want the road and the car to have nothing but a seat and steering wheel keeping them apart. We would never want such iterference to the driver, if your car is out of control its the drivers fault and no one else.

I dont thing that we would ever have any electronic driving aids on the car. We would offer hi-tech features like customsable ECU, safety push start and remote alarms etc but nothing that affects the driving quality.

Personally I belive that a car and driver should feel balanced together. We recently had a high speed track test done by a UK magazine who are doing a feature on us and they commentend the same thing to us, hopefull when reviews happen here in India also they will find the same thing.


We believe in this first offering that its about maintaining a balance between the two uses and should there be real demand we can design somthing that is faster. Its not that we cant, its that we didnt think it was wise to do so at least at this stage.

[pganapathy]

Originally Posted by Chris C

Its intresting that I think we both agree and disagree at the same time!

I disagree because
If I was to make a track car only I would change a few things like:
-Changed the flywheel
-Changed the clutch
-Supercharged the engine
-Install a sequential 6 speed gear box
-Stiffened the road springs
-Reduced ride hight

These are things that would be very useful to you on a track however would make the car simply undriveable on the road in the UK let alone in India were traffic is closer to you.

All this said, this is why we are also planning a race track only car based on similar setup but with these additional changes. I dont think we would ever offer this for the road.
I agree because:
We also dont like driving aids, we want the road and the car to have nothing but a seat and steering wheel keeping them apart. We would never want such iterference to the driver, if your car is out of control its the drivers fault and no one else.

I dont thing that we would ever have any electronic driving aids on the car. We would offer hi-tech features like customsable ECU, safety push start and remote alarms etc but nothing that affects the driving quality.

Personally I belive that a car and driver should feel balanced together.
We believe in this first offering that its about maintaining a balance between the two uses and should there be real demand we can design somthing that is faster. Its not that we cant, its that we didnt think it was wise to do so at least at this stage.

Ok Chris, it looks like we do think alike. I agree that some of the changes mentioned will make the car impractical for either road or track use depending which way you go. That said, I do believe it is possible to design a car that is balanced enough to be good both on the track and the road. For evidence look no further than the evo X fq 400. I will admit though that this balance does not come cheap. When it is done by a large manufacturer they can recover some of the costs of R&D from the halo effect and hence sale of lesser model cars, something a small producer does not have the advantage of.

However, I do believe that you can make a car that is practical for road use but still more track friendly. This I believe is a better balanced car that you may not have reached. Forced induction would boost power to levels that permitted fun driving with reserves for additional fun. Have a vehicle with a roof so that it is actually a practical daily driver. Yes, you have said you can but are not doing it at present. My question is what volumes are you looking at for that. Unfortunately at the prices you are looking at, the market is small and you better get it right the first time.

And unfortunately I cannot afford one of your gems. But I really am gonna try and figure out how to make enough to afford one if you get the balance right

[Chris C]

Originally Posted by pganapathy

Ok Chris, it looks like we do think alike. I agree that some of the changes mentioned will make the car impractical for either road or track use depending which way you go. That said, I do believe it is possible to design a car that is balanced enough to be good both on the track and the road. For evidence look no further than the evo X fq 400. I will admit though that this balance does not come cheap. When it is done by a large manufacturer they can recover some of the costs of R&D from the halo effect and hence sale of lesser model cars, something a small producer does not have the advantage of.

However, I do believe that you can make a car that is practical for road use but still more track friendly. This I believe is a better balanced car that you may not have reached. Forced induction would boost power to levels that permitted fun driving with reserves for additional fun. Have a vehicle with a roof so that it is actually a practical daily driver. Yes, you have said you can but are not doing it at present. My question is what volumes are you looking at for that. Unfortunately at the prices you are looking at, the market is small and you better get it right the first time.

And unfortunately I cannot afford one of your gems. But I really am gonna try and figure out how to make enough to afford one if you get the balance right

I do like the evo series, very practical but monsterous at the same time, and those little fins at the top of the rear window make all the difference :-) I have been on tour with one of these following me and its certainly a fast car but its not a raw drivers car there are many elctronic aids controlling the torque at the wheels and monitoring wheel speeds etc. It not quite the same market though is attachtive to many petrol heads (though I would opt for a GTR is I little more "precise" in a very japanese way!)

Maybe we had gone for a little low down in people expectations however I think that you have to drive it to see how fast it really it. Soon, soon ...
Let me but it this way, ive owned and driven a lot of cars in my time from
porsches to ferraris to the atom and x-bow I currently own a 420 bhp 6.0 v12 coupe so I do know what fast is and I trutly belive that we have a good blend in this first car. If I didnt think so I would not have brough the car to the market. It took some time and many tries to get to what we have but we are happy with it at the moment.

This said we can tweak the car as we are "motorsport" company so unlike major car companies you can bring your car back and say I need more grip / power / downforce / clutch strength etc and we can design a upgrade package for each customer once they have had the car for a while and know what want.

We are currently looking for distributors that may be able to offer these vehciles on a time share basis or shared ownership so you can club together with a few others to own one.
We have spoken and had some intrest from some companies already in Delhi and Mumbai none in Bangalore yet. Will keep you posted.

[dipen]

Originally Posted by Chris C

We are currently looking for distributors that may be able to offer these vehciles on a time share basis or shared ownership so you can club together with a few others to own one.
We have spoken and had some intrest from some companies already in Delhi and Mumbai none in Bangalore yet. Will keep you posted.

You could try a direct tie up with tracks like BIC, where people just have to pay a fee to drive it on the track for a particular time. The track provides you space while you take care of all the training, maintainence, ride programs, schemes.

Here you can have different versions of cars available (like high power, high grip, fast cornering and similar) to suit different audiences and cater to everyone's fantacies. Each car would have it own pricing scheme.

A membership program could also be explored.

Since the car costs 5x less than full blooded sports cars, while provides the seat off the pants fun, it could do well on the finacial side.

In India people may not buy this as a road car. It is too incomplete in the weather conditions that we have + it attrarts too many good as well not not so good comments. You will find it difficult to get decent sales numbers but from the track scheme, you could generate more revenue as well as a good fan-base.

[Maky]

Originally Posted by Chris C

I do like the evo series, very practical but monsterous at the same time, and those little fins at the top of the rear window make all the difference :-) I have been on tour with one of these following me and its certainly a fast car but its not a raw drivers car there are many elctronic aids controlling the torque at the wheels and monitoring wheel speeds etc. It not quite the same market though is attachtive to many petrol heads (though I would opt for a GTR is I little more "precise" in a very japanese way!)

Maybe we had gone for a little low down in people expectations however I think that you have to drive it to see how fast it really it. Soon, soon ...
Let me but it this way, ive owned and driven a lot of cars in my time from
porsches to ferraris to the atom and x-bow I currently own a 420 bhp 6.0 v12 coupe so I do know what fast is and I trutly belive that we have a good blend in this first car. If I didnt think so I would not have brough the car to the market. It took some time and many tries to get to what we have but we are happy with it at the moment.

This said we can tweak the car as we are "motorsport" company so unlike major car companies you can bring your car back and say I need more grip / power / downforce / clutch strength etc and we can design a upgrade package for each customer once they have had the car for a while and know what want.

We are currently looking for distributors that may be able to offer these vehciles on a time share basis or shared ownership so you can club together with a few others to own one.
We have spoken and had some intrest from some companies already in Delhi and Mumbai none in Bangalore yet. Will keep you posted.

The price mentioned is CBU yes? Is it possible for you to bring this in as CKD? If so, How much cheaper would that be?
Also, Could you tell me make of the engine? I think Caterham uses Ford ones...

[AdiSinghV12]

Originally Posted by Chris C

When you say bigger exhaust what do you mean?

We would never remove the roll bar, it is required for UK approval in case of roll over which is very easy in a 600kg car!

We do have an FIA approved roll over bar however that is only avaliable in the UK at the moment. We are however making a staight top one too which will be an option soon.

We are the manufacturer so we can change things according to customer requirements as long as they are safe, sensible and pass the UK appproval tests.[/b]

Hi Chris! Good to see someone from the company itself on T-BHP. By bigger exhaust, I meant something like the one found on the LP-640. I know the two are totally different cars but it'd make this one look much more aggressive and desirable. The straight top one would be interesting. Bring it onn!