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Old 14th September 2020, 10:00   #46
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Re: Vroom for real - My used Porsche 911 (997.2)

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Originally Posted by androdev View Post

Wow. I am sure you already know, Targa is an epic choice, made even more awesome by beautiful landscapes! It is so many cars rolled into one. I wish I had the choice of buying one here. I guess it must have been a hard-find even in your market.


I was also hesitant to start a thread on a 10 year old car which I hardly know how to drive but I guess our personal stories behind such cars are unique and interesting. Your signature shows some really nice cars and I am sure your perspective would make a great read. At the very least, you would have some lovely car pictures for us to enjoy!
I did try finding a bit about the rarity of this variant/model.
According to https://www.ianbevis.co.uk/porsche-9...uction-numbers, only 141 + 1761 + 1426 = 3328 Targa4S 997.1 were produced. Most went to the US & other left hand drive countries (most of the world). So this right hand drive model is pretty rare, compared to other 911s. Not entirely sure of the exact number, but it may be like 1 of 700/800, maybe (in the whole world) - I maybe completely wrong.
But I have not seen another of this vintage here, yet. It was the last run of this model, all issues resolved, fully optioned & low mileage, in an excellent condition & that Meteor Grey color & the special wheels are just droolworthy in sunlight & in person. Also due to the rarity, it does not depreciate much at all, but by the number of kms I am clocking because I just can't stop driving it for no reason - I don't know if I will ever profit from it or not (not that I care about resale value) - I have no plans to sell it ever, if i can have my way in life - man proposes, God disposes :-)
Porsche's are made to be driven & bring joy - in my opinion - not to be babied around as an investment. But well, that is just me.
Took me 8 hard months of searching, actually driving all around the country to inspect/test many of them & to narrow down to this one.


I used to be a car nut, when back in India. Fresh out of college & in a good job for a year, purchased the Honda City many years back, which got molested & abused like anything by rickshaws, monkey menace, "innocent mistakes" in parking by neighbours & other fellow road users - while on the road & more when parked. Just killed my interest in ever buying anything more than a tin can on 4 wheels, in India - sold it in disgust & with a heavy heart.
Now that I am in a sparsely populated country, that interest has rekindled & come back with a vengeance :-)

I'll try to find time & pen down my first thread on Team-bhp, with some courage sometime :-p

By the way, please go ahead & join a Porsche club & go to their events - it will exponentially improve your enjoyment of the car.

Last edited by anks_at : 14th September 2020 at 10:30.
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Old 14th September 2020, 14:04   #47
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Re: Vroom for real - My used Porsche 911 (997.2)

Heartiest congratulations on your purchase. The car looks like a fine wine which is aging perfectly. Nice write up too. Just had two queries
1. How much did it costed you including registration charges in KA.
2. What about underbelly scrapping considering the conditions of bangalore roads
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Old 26th September 2020, 16:13   #48
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Re: Vroom for real - My used Porsche 911 (997.2)

Many congratulations on getting the dream car that petrolheads all over the world consider the holy grail of sports cars. Owing a Porsche has been a dream since I was a child and moreso, the 911. Hopefully, I'll get there someday, but until then, would love to read experiences of other people like you who so generously share.

Must say that you had me with the witty writing of yours. It was tough to decide whether I liked your writing more or your 911.

You inspire me to pick up writing and I am seriously considering writing a thread of my own on the Cooper S, which has also been one of my wife and I's favorite car.

Wishing you many miles and cherished moments with your 911!
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Old 3rd November 2020, 16:27   #49
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Re: Vroom for real - My used Porsche 911 (997.2)

Update on ownership transfer:

I got the keys in the 2nd week of Aug and ownership transfer got completed in the 1st week of Nov. The procedure is elaborate with usual duplicate/triplicate hand-filled forms, very well documented on this forum and elsewhere on the internet. Armed with my inexperience and fairy-tale expectations, I told myself, "let's get it done!"

First step was for the seller to get NOC from CH RTO. He engaged Mr. Worst-case-scenario who wasted one whole month with comforting statements like "these things take time, ask the buyer to be patient" which were forwarded to me on Whatsapp. My best guess would be that this person was trying to get the NOC through the back channels without doing any paperwork. Totally unnecessary and undesirable for a legitimate car.

Having wasted a month, I told the seller not to bother and decided to get the NOC by myself. A very helpful member of this forum (thank you sir!) introduced me to his contact in CH and he was a gem. It seems all one has to do is take an online appointment and submit the documents. The earliest appointment I could get was 20 days later. No worries, at least, there is a roadmap now and I am in the driver's seat.

CH contact pointed out that insurance details are not updated on Vahan portal without which it would be a non-starter. I started chasing TATA-AIG to update the Vahan portal. Imagine what happens when an insurance company and government have to jointly work together - using computer systems? Singularity. After many Kafkaesque nights, finally I think some well fed aunty draped in an oversized gold necklace had the sense to call the tea-boy walking past her desk to find out which key to press. I missed the appointment by then, but thankfully it could be managed and I got the NOC on the same day.

Next step was to file for RC transfer in KA RTO. This happened very smoothly as I went with tax amount DD (along with paperwork and invoice) and received the tax paid receipt immediately. I was promised the RC transfer in a day or two but it took 20 days. By this time my expectations were well tempered and I understood their language. Tax paid receipt was good enough for me to drive around without hindrance, so I was not in any great hurry.

Once I had completed the RC transfer, I had to get the insurance policy transferred to my name. I was shocked to know that the insurance company won't honour any potential claims if the names on policy and RC card don't match. TATA-AIG call center as usual disappointed me but calling the local branch connected me to the right person and the transfer was taken care of over email for a fee of Rs 60. This was a 3rd party policy so there was no need to inspect the vehicle, etc. I guess.

Hopefully I will get the KA number soon and add "completed inter-state vehicle ownership transfer" to my resume. For the sake of brevity, I have skipped the routine stuff. I would be happy to reply if there are any specific questions about the transfer process.
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Old 3rd November 2020, 22:38   #50
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Re: Vroom for real - My used Porsche 911 (997.2)

Congratulations. Finally you managed. And good it went through formal official channels and systems else it may cause problems many years down the line.

On the tax to be paid, how was the same calculated. Is it on the offical price you paid to the seller (which some people may under quote in used car sale) or is there a RTO specific depreciation formula. Also is the new KA tax valid for another 15 years or will there another renewal tax one may have to pay at the end of 15 years of the car's age.
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Old 4th November 2020, 05:49   #51
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Re: Vroom for real - My used Porsche 911 (997.2)

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Originally Posted by gulerianeeraj View Post
2. What about underbelly scrapping considering the conditions of bangalore roads
The question was not asked of me, but I can probably help answer:

It will scrape on some Bangalore potholes & some speed breakers or garage entrances. But much much less than you would think/expect of such a car of any other make. Go sideways or reverse (obviously no reversing on a main road with traffic), & it will probably not scrape anything.

Mine never scrapes anything in NZ, except a few very steep private driveways only (which are not necessarily constructed to the same standards & guidelines as public roads), which is easily avoided by going on an angle rather than head on. If you can reverse instead, it never ever scrapes anything that would not be considered off-road. Mine is lowered by 10mm due to Sports Chrono package.

Not sure, but did Porsche increase the height/ground clearance a bit more for India? The newer ones definitely have an option to have a Lift mechanism installed for such situations.

Last edited by anks_at : 4th November 2020 at 05:59.
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Old 4th November 2020, 10:17   #52
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Re: Vroom for real - My used Porsche 911 (997.2)

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Originally Posted by dipen View Post
On the tax to be paid, how was the same calculated. Is it on the offical price you paid to the seller (which some people may under quote in used car sale) or is there a RTO specific depreciation formula. Also is the new KA tax valid for another 15 years or will there another renewal tax one may have to pay at the end of 15 years of the car's age.
It was calculated based on the original invoice I shared, received discount based on the age of the car. Straight forward affair if original invoice is available. Sale price amount was not asked during the entire transfer process. Maybe if you buy from a dealer, there might be GST/TDS, etc. on the sale price but I have no idea about it.

Good question about what happens after 15 years of age - I don't know. I am assuming life-time-tax is literally for life but now that you made me think, I won't be surprised if the taxman comes after me again.

In general, the environment is very hostile towards old cars. They may ban old cars, may force us to scrap or at the very least impose penalties. I really struggled to make up my mind to buy this car due to these uncertainties but the show must go on. Forget about the car, I am more worried about what would be happen to me by that time

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Originally Posted by anks_at View Post
Not sure, but did Porsche increase the height/ground clearance a bit more for India? The newer ones definitely have an option to have a Lift mechanism installed for such situations.
No India specific adjustments for sure. My car is a base version without adaptive suspension (PASM) which sits 20mm higher than sport with PASM. Enthusiasts will be not pleased with the aesthetics of car sitting 20mm higher but it was one of the compelling reasons to buy this particular car.

I live in the outskirts of Bangalore where every house has its own personal speed breaker and roads are constantly dug up for election fund-raising. Due to shorter wheelbase, it does better than Honda city and 5 series that I drive regularly. There is one major difference though - engine and transmission are at the rear, which means you need to be super careful when the rear wheels clear the speed breaker. My muscle memory with front-engined cars is to zoom off as soon as the rear wheel is about to clear the speed breaker. For the same reason, front-only nose-lift is not terribly useful for the monstrous roads that we have.

Even though the 19" tire side wall is not much, the face of the alloy wheel is having generous amount of recess relative to the face of the tire to offer decent protection against scuffs and scrapes. It's not comfortable to ride for sure, but the car is rugged enough to taken on Bangalore. Hypothetically speaking there is enough space in the car to fit spare wheels and extra fuel cans to do epic road trips if one desires (hint!).

Vroom for real - My used Porsche 911 (997.2)-tirerecess.png
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Old 7th November 2020, 15:25   #53
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Re: Vroom for real - My used Porsche 911 (997.2)

Vroom for real - My used Porsche 911 (997.2)-proad.jpg

Have I overpaid for an old car? Was it a mistake to pay the hefty KA road tax? When the objects in the mirror shrink in size rapidly and the truck in the front becomes a wall in the blink of an eye, there are more pressing questions to ask, such as, what if the brakes donít work?!

Remember those "flight info" screens on international flights that say 700 kmph with -50C outside? You try to look outside for some sign to believe and the only thing you feel is your wife snoring? Not in this car. She is clutching your shoulder screaming at you to *#$! the slow down - and even before you touch 70 kmph. And the temperature? Oh the damn temperature - sick of everyone adjusting those twelve-zone climate control buttons all the time to get the perfect temperature setting. Sorry, there is a serious dearth of buttons in this car. BYOB. Bring your own buttons. The adrenaline button, the excitement button, the scream button and so on, The car will push them for you.
Vroom for real - My used Porsche 911 (997.2)-buttons.png

Quote:
...Burmester incredible 3D sound system, which uses a whopping 27 high-performance loudspeakers and 24 discrete amplifier channels inside the cabin. The total output of Maybachís sound system is 1,590 watts...
Impressive. But can you operate it with a foot pedal? Is it spiritual enough to part the Red Sea of Fortuners? Do people follow you to hear a little more of that music? I never thought I would love a loud exhaust but here I am, spreading joy and irritation. On a recent drive, I have heard and seen this car go past me when I was driving another car. Each time it passed me, I felt like a kid at the aeroshow.

Have you seen the F1 drivers struggling to get in and get out of their race cars? I struggle more. I imagine myself mindfully performing Seiza, a formal traditional way of sitting in Japan during a tea ceremony. Reality is a bit clumsy at the moment and gets comical when my kids have to be squeezed into the back seat but it's all part of the experience. Much like everybody being strapped and checked before a roller coaster ride. Adds to the drama.

Hydraulic steering in this car is da bomb. It went extinct after this car and was an important factor that tilted the scales towards buying 997 vs 991. You can read road-braille with it. Reminder of good old times that you want to extend a little bit longer. I think as I drive different cars over the many coming years, one thing that will set this car apart would be this steering. It is like pen and paper vs iPad and Apple pencil.

Anyways, here I am.. driving a sports car with family on Bangalore roads with enough excitement accessible at speeds suitable for public roads. Could be better, could be worse.
Vroom for real - My used Porsche 911 (997.2)-pparking.jpg

Other observations based on my brief ownership:

I was sold on 911 mainly because I wanted a very compact four-seater that looks as 'cool' as a two-seater. I was worried about the real-world usability of four seats, but wow they make the car much more usable. I would have driven a lot less if not for the rear seats.
Vroom for real - My used Porsche 911 (997.2)-prear.jpg

No spare tire, etc. You can buy a space saver type emergency tire which can fit in the frunk but the wheel you take off won't fit in the frunk and will have to be placed in the rear seat. Space saver can only be used at the front. If you need to replace the rear wheel, you will have to first shift the front wheel to the rear and then mount the space saver at the front.

Max fuel efficiency on highways can be 7.5 kmpl. PDK does a very good job of extracting high FE. But general fun driving should be around 5 kmpl. Tank capacity is around 65L I think. I felt one can get 4 hours of spirited drive on a full tank. If driven sedately, 400+ km range is doable. You can spec the car with a 90L tank while buying new. I wish it had it.

Getting high octane fuel regularly is a problem as my place is a bit far off from such outlets. I am so far sticking to high octane fuel only. Honestly, I donít know the difference as I am new to the car but just trying to be nice to the car. Previous owner was running on Shell normal petrol and the service advisor said itís good enough.

Luggage space in the frunk is pretty decent for a car of this category. The limiting factors for a long drive would be spare tire, fuel availability, road conditions, etc. and not the luggage space.

There is no place to keep water bottles It has fancy cup holders but would have preferred a more traditional bottle holder. I will explore some options like fixing a storage net in the passenger footwell.

Seats offer manual fore/aft adjustment and electric incline which was a preferred feature for me due to my need to access the rear seats frequently.

I am yet to play music in the car, for that matter do anything other than just drive. As such there is not much to fiddle in the car. No parking sensors also.

NVH is poor. Ride is hard. Cramped cabin. All for a cause.

Sorry about the poor quality pictures, casually taken by others.
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Old 7th November 2020, 23:24   #54
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Re: Vroom for real - My used Porsche 911 (997.2)

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Originally Posted by androdev View Post
You can read road-braille with it.
It is like pen and paper vs iPad and Apple pencil.
Couldn't have described it better. I remember the first time I drove mine on a 'kaccha rasta' (we Bangaloreans drive on these often, no matter the car). But the feeling was insane. I could feel every rock, everything in the road through the wheel. Never experienced anything like it before!
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Old 8th November 2020, 08:55   #55
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Re: Vroom for real - My used Porsche 911 (997.2)

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Sorry, there is a serious dearth of buttons in this car. BYOB. Bring your own buttons. The adrenaline button, the excitement button, the scream button and so on, The car will push them for you.
True, it presses them even if you don't bring them. The old style PCM module literally has enough buttons on it though

Quote:
I never thought I would love a loud exhaust but here I am, spreading joy and irritation. On a recent drive, I have heard and seen this car go past me when I was driving another car. Each time it passed me, I felt like a kid at the aeroshow.
The exhaust on this one is awesome & can indeed be very loud (especially the sports exhaust). However, say, only 20% of the fun (exhaust sound) comes inside the cabin :-( The engine wail though does come in nice & clear.

Quote:
Have you seen the F1 drivers struggling to get in and get out of their race cars? I struggle more. I imagine myself mindfully performing Seiza, a formal traditional way of sitting in Japan during a tea ceremony. Reality is a bit clumsy at the moment and gets comical when my kids have to be squeezed into the back seat but it's all part of the experience. Much like everybody being strapped and checked before a roller coaster ride. Adds to the drama.
The getting out part is the hardest. If you have parked in a tight space & cannot get the door fully opened, then one gets to learn new contortionist moves! :-) Half open door is not useful, unlike many other usual cars.

Quote:
Max fuel efficiency on highways can be 7.5 kmpl. PDK does a very good job of extracting high FE. But general fun driving should be around 5 kmpl. Tank capacity is around 65L I think. I felt one can get 4 hours of spirited drive on a full tank. If driven sedately, 400+ km range is doable. You can spec the car with a 90L tank while buying new. I wish it had it.
I usually get a fuel efficiency of 10ish on the highway here, which surprised me. But I guess that is due to the following factors: Speed limited to 100, cruise control, sticking to a lane without problems, hardly ever braking. Yes, the fuel capacity is 65litres.

Quote:
Getting high octane fuel regularly is a problem as my place is a bit far off from such outlets. I am so far sticking to high octane fuel only. Honestly, I donít know the difference as I am new to the car but just trying to be nice to the car. Previous owner was running on Shell normal petrol and the service advisor said itís good enough.
It does require minimum 95RON. The turbos required 98RON. The new ones would be minimum 98RON now. I typically use 98RON, since I inadvertently end up pushing the car almost always & so it is just happier & safer with that.


Quote:
There is no place to keep water bottles It has fancy cup holders but would have preferred a more traditional bottle holder.
I am able to squeeze a 600ml thin (& long) bottle in the storage space under the door armrests on each side. Only certain ones are able to fit.

Quote:
NVH is poor. Ride is hard. Cramped cabin. All for a cause.
NVH - depends what one wants to listen to- passengers or the engine wail :-) The newer ones are quieter, but these are certainly not on the level of other luxury cars, which some might expect, given the money paid. Just built for a different experience.
The ride is in between the hardness levels I have seen on other sport/roadster cars, eg: the SLK I drive is harder still. When I sit in the 911, it feels so soft. Lol.
I tried out the air suspension on their Panamera & on the S-class. That is soft to an infinite level :-)
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Old 8th November 2020, 21:51   #56
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Re: Vroom for real - My used Porsche 911 (997.2)

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Yes, he was a thorough gentleman and took care of this car very well. I see that you are an Arsenal fan - what are you doing to cope with that? I am a Barca fan and all the 911s in the world won't be able to help me deal with the depression.
hahaha we're doing much better than i foresaw so i'm nothing less than euphoric at the moment - all kudos to don mikel for the sea change in playing style. you on other hand, this lovely big beetle i'm sure feels like the equivalent of how many ever euros barca will exchange messi for eventually
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Old 9th November 2020, 02:46   #57
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Re: Vroom for real - My used Porsche 911 (997.2)

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hahaha we're doing much better than i foresaw so i'm nothing less than euphoric at the moment
this did not age well.
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Old 9th November 2020, 09:51   #58
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Re: Vroom for real - My used Porsche 911 (997.2)

Yet another brilliant piece which helps us to know how is it to live with that German thoroughbred everyday! Enjoy the winter and keep it coming!

Quote:
Originally Posted by androdev View Post
Have you seen the F1 drivers struggling to get in and get out of their race cars? I struggle more. I imagine myself mindfully performing Seiza, a formal traditional way of sitting in Japan during a tea ceremony. Reality is a bit clumsy at the moment and gets comical when my kids have to be squeezed into the back seat but it's all part of the experience.
You are much better off! Trust me! I have been getting in and out of this thing below since morning today while I was setting it up with my daughter at our home. And it's not been pleasant either for my back or my girls watching me do it!
Vroom for real - My used Porsche 911 (997.2)-img_20201109_092732721_hdr.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbelAFC View Post
this did not age well.
Just when you think we have finally hit that apex on the torque curve, a cylinder or two misfires, the engine stutters and there is severe understeer while that sector goes from purple to deep red ! :(
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Old 10th November 2020, 17:43   #59
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Re: Vroom for real - My used Porsche 911 (997.2)

Came across this thread just today. Fantastic buy sir. Congratulations. Please update us about the average service costs also if you don't mind.
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Old 12th November 2020, 13:44   #60
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Re: Vroom for real - My used Porsche 911 (997.2)

Vroom for real - My used Porsche 911 (997.2)-reardelete.png

Service update:

By now I am used to the bills for scheduled service of these EU brands which are to be honest quite manageable. Miraculously, I have so far escaped big repair bills and sometimes I feel like a guinea pig in a lab that is yet to bite the wire that gives a shock. Or more like a guinea pig that won't stop biting till it gets a shock. Time will tell.

The car has completed its first service (under my ownership) and everything went along the expected lines: the stationary used for printing bills is of the highest quality I have seen so far - you can judge the premium pricing by the quality of the envelope used, the service desk answers your calls by your name (they've got your number!).

The numbers: 50K for regular scheduled service (I have asked them not to change the air and AC filters as they are relatively new but somehow they managed to bring it up to 50K), 55K for replacing front suspension mounts, 30K for driver side window regulator. The last two items were ordered during pre-purchase inspection and took the usual long time to procure the parts. Bills attached at the end of this post.

The car had an elaborate "PORSCHE 911 Carrera" badge at the rear, I asked them to remove everything and just put back the Carrera badge alone (like standard spec from the factory). They said they won't be able to reuse the badge and I will have to order a new one. For the time being, I asked them to remove the entire badging, which they did and thankfully the paint finish is clean without any ghosting by the old badge. No charge, yay!

I asked them to take care of the few rattles from the steering and driver's door pad (which they opened once to diagnose the window issue) but I know too well by now that it's impossible to get the dealer to fix them on old cars. Even on new cars, you need to be very lucky to get rattles fixed by the dealer. Btw, the car rattles to glory on bad roads, which is pretty much every road, due to the combination of age, suspension and tires. I think I have figured out the source of the two most annoying buzzing sounds (steering and door pad) and I should be able to fix them with a felt-tape. Definitely not the car for a quiet ride, but also very easy to drown any sort of noise

One rear tire was very old which was a stop-gap replacement by the previous owner. Due to the tire import ban, the dealer was not in a position to place an order (forget ready stock - everything pretty much has to be ordered). This tire ban is a total killjoy for people with high end bikes and cars. I finally managed to get a 2018 stock from Madhu's (305 30 R19, Michelin Pilot Sport same as the rest of the tires) for 40K. Madhu's on Wilson Garden road seems to be the go-to place for high end cars - they have a nice machine to take the tire off the wheel without damaging the wheel - but I still ended up with a nick during balancing maybe (keep calm and carry on)
Vroom for real - My used Porsche 911 (997.2)-wheelmachine.jpeg

Some general observations:
The frunk lid is held up by two very flimsy struts, it has a tendency to suddenly close down. Could be worn out struts also but feels cheap overall.

Due to the short wheelbase and rigid suspension, when you jack up the rear wheel, the front wheel also comes off the ground I took the rear wheel for tire replacement. Axle hub and wheel bore make a super tight fit - I hate such tight fits, a real pain to change tires. S Class wheels are a joy to change - hub fits just perfect, lug nuts can be fastened just with fingers before the final torquing. It comes with a guide pin to help you align the lug nut holes on the hub and wheel. You see precision and thoughtfulness at work.

Black alloys are tough to maintain - every tire change will come with some minor scuffs and scratches, not to mention the damages due to bad roads.

Frameless windows: The top of the window frame has to rest inside the window beading to seal the cabin and this frame rolls down an inch just before you open the door and rolls up an inch as soon as you close the door. If the window regulator/motor stops working, then you can't open the door as the frame needs to roll down an inch to clear the window beading. When I bought the car, the service centre fixed the window an inch lower and disconnected the motor so that the door could be opened and closed. Thankfully it still provided a sealed cabin as I could drive and park it in rain.

The horn - it's super hard to press. By the time I manage to make it honk, I am 2 minutes behind schedule.

It has a rear spoiler of sorts that lifts up above certain speed and can also be deployed with a button from the console, but it is out of sight for the driver so I am never sure what the button is doing I like the clean look without the spoiler down and it's not such a pretty looking spoiler either.

Vroom for real - My used Porsche 911 (997.2)-bill1.jpeg
Vroom for real - My used Porsche 911 (997.2)-bill2.jpeg

Boulevards of Bengaluru:
Vroom for real - My used Porsche 911 (997.2)-road.jpeg
Vroom for real - My used Porsche 911 (997.2)-spiff.png

Last edited by androdev : 12th November 2020 at 13:46.
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