[Taronish_E]

There seems to be a tonne of speculation, theories, counter-theories and other factors in this accident.

Here's my opinion on this accident.

1) The M3 was going way too fast - how do I know? Because the Activa is in two halves AND two people died - yes, two humans.

2) The Activa rider was foolish to keep his headlight off, or if he was turning where he should not have or whatever he was taking an unneccesary risk. He must have also misjudged the speed of the M3 as it came in towards him. Also, the pre-median where the bike was allegedly struck does not have a single street lamp. The hell is up with that?

3) Roads in Mumbai are terrible. How can you go from having a single white-striped line dividing two lanes into a median with electric poles and not have ample lighting on an abandoned road (as observed, there is nothing for miles around).

4) That drawing is, to say the least - interesting. It also does sort of explain that if the driver was going fast and the Activa came out of nowhere, his first reaction would be to avoid a collision and swerve. Perhaps the Activa kept coming and didn't stop hence the impact occurred where there's no divider and the car came to a rest several hundred meters down the road thanks to momentum.

5) Going fast never kills anyone - it's suddenly coming to a stop that gets you. This is what has happened here. Ever had someone in a car doing 20 kph give you a high-five as they passed by? If yes, you'll know what I am talking about. Multiply that by atleast five, involve the weight of the entire BMW (German over-engineering) and the added BHP (and speed as well probably) and you are going to have a bad time.

I will keep a hawk's eye on this topic as it develops. Let's see what happens.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by ais

Why I write this post is to convey that just because a car is involved doesn't mean it's driver was at fault. Had an accident happened in my case, then I guess that would have been the obvious conjecture.

Almost every day I read of serious injuries and death of bikers on the roads. Almost every day I see bikers who are only kept alive by the avoiding tactics of other motorists.

When I read the reports, it is always a bigger vehicle that has "rammed" the two-wheeler. Sometimes, when it is stipulated that the law-abiding biker was, for instance, stopped at a signal and mown down by a vehicle with no intention of stopping for life or light, it is pure tragedy and little less than murder, but otherwise, my conjecture is the opposite of what you suggest. Bus or Beamer, I don't care: "rammed" probably means that the biker cut in front, or pulled out in front, of the "ramming" vehicle.

I had to visit The Hindu offices some time back. Of course, the place is packed with bikes. I put my money on all those those "biker was rammed by bus/beeemer/truck/whatever" pieces are written by bikers who are incapable of having any other viewpoint or intelligence or awareness other than the way they drive is right, and it is right that everybody else has to keep them alive.

Apologies to the bikers who also know all this (especially if you work for The Hindu ): I guess you won't need the apology, because you probably feel just the same as I do.

Yes, there is a certain rich-kid-in-a-fast car prejudice too. That also is a stereotype that has some good reason to exist.

[ais]

We also see so many two wheeler riders without helmets, and several of those who wear helmets do not fasten the strap!

In this accident has anyone even mentioned helmets?

An Activa can probably be broken into three or more pieces by a car hitting it at any speed, slow or fast. In a developed country, by now the accident scene would have been recreated and a few Activas test rammed at the exact angle of the accident to estimate the speed of the M3. Or am I just speculating/wishing now???

[R32_GTR]

A conventional scooter's chassis design (see pic of activa chassis below) itself is questionable to start with. A head on collision at 30kmph too would do enough to break it in two pieces at the weakest point (circled in red)- The foot board area?? Its unimaginable (or as one can imagine from the pics of what remains of the activa). There have been instances where cars have broken in two at high speeds (or 3 in case of a BMW recently?) so the speed of the impact too is fairly relative.

Then there is the condition of the scooter itself - for instance, a rusty old scooter chassis could easily break as well - Not sure if that was ever taken into consideration while speculating all this while. Even a lighter and/or slower vehicle could do similar damage depending on the impact angle and speed.

Accidents happen everyday and its really inevitable with the way things are on our roads. This could have happened to any of us and what we would have done to recover from the mess that we found ourselves in would be relative in most cases.

EDIT - Also, statistically and at the risk of generalized assumptions - older motorist do have bad reflexes and often find themselves in a "tight" spot on the roads everywhere. So while it might have been an M3 (read - fast car) - at the other end of the spectrum, its also an activa with a 60+ year old with a pillion rider - God bless all their souls.

[crdi]

Originally Posted by D33-PAC

I love the scenarios where the immature driver dies from his own wrongdoings. Lots of young rich kids with fancy cars have perished from their lack of discipline.

But when innocents are involved, that's when it hurts the most !

I remember a few years back, a 22 yr old was gifted an F430 Scud by the father. The kid died the same night, the body was barbecued. Statistics show that some serious stuff is about to happen when young ones are gifted serious toys by successful baaps !

Typical Indian mindset of blaming the larger/Costlier vehicle involved. Pathetic, is the least I could say about attitudes that love a loss of life. Pretty much similar way of thoughts, to the crowds who torched the car, if that was the case. Irresponsible drivers drive all sorts of vehicles from two to two+ wheelers, not just supercars & cause terrible fatalities. Should we love all those deaths ?

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by ais

In a developed country, by now the accident scene would have been recreated and a few Activas test rammed at the exact angle of the accident to estimate the speed of the M3. Or am I just speculating/wishing now???

You are probably exaggerating, but , speaking for my mother country, a lethal accident will lead to road closure and detailed forensic investigation, possibly for several hours. That is true whether it is a back lane or a motorway. No, they would not try to recreate the event with other vehicles, but they would examine the bits, measure the skid marks, mark and plan everything. No driver of any vehicle involved would escape from questioning, and breath/etc tests would be a matter of course.

Originally Posted by R32_GTR

EDIT - Also, statistically and at the risk of generalized assumptions - older motorist do have bad reflexes and often find themselves in a "tight" spot on the roads everywhere. So while it might have been an M3 (read - fast car) - at the other end of the spectrum, its also an activa with a 60+ year old with a pillion rider - God bless all their souls.

And younger motorists have bad overconfidence, and not a fraction of the actuall ability or skill they think they have. Yes, it is another generalisation, but try asking the world's insurance companies which age groups are the safer, and which the most likely to have accidents that lead to claims.

I don't know if Indian insurance companies have really caught up with this yet. If you are a 25-year-old, in London UK, your insurance, annually, is likely to be more than the cost of your car, and if your car is either very old/cheap or very expensive/powerful, you are likely to be refused altogether. UK car-hire companies do not hire at all to people under the age of 25. Why? Too much risk.

I think you need to revise your "statistics!"

[apachelongbow]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

And younger motorists have bad overconfidence, and not a fraction of the actuall ability or skill they think they have. Yes, it is another generalisation, but try asking the world's insurance companies which age groups are the safer, and which the most likely to have accidents that lead to claims.

Agree with your thoughts. However can we take a look at that 60 year old senior citizen on the scooter? Had he or his pillion worn helmets? Was his bike road worthy (as far as I read, he had no working headlights), was he obeying traffic rules (he cut across the median or pulled up into the wrong lane). In most civilized countries, the scooterist, would be at blame, and if alive would be hauled off to jail.

What about the village mob? Who among them was arrested for arson?

[R32_GTR]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

And younger motorists have bad overconfidence, and not a fraction of the actuall ability or skill they think they have. Yes, it is another generalisation, but try asking the world's insurance companies which age groups are the safer, and which the most likely to have accidents that lead to claims.

I don't know if Indian insurance companies have really caught up with this yet. If you are a 25-year-old, in London UK, your insurance, annually, is likely to be more than the cost of your car, and if your car is either very old/cheap or very expensive/powerful, you are likely to be refused altogether. UK car-hire companies do not hire at all to people under the age of 25. Why? Too much risk.

I think you need to revise your "statistics!"

Irrespective of age, most motorists on our roads shouldn't be given a library card, let alone a drivers license and we have a whole lot of motorists. So we both might have been a bit biased one way or another with our attempts at rationalizing the situation?

Speaking of statistics - Here's my source - http://morth.nic.in/writereaddata/ma...e/File1465.pdf

[stanjohn123]

So now who is going to sue the guy's who torched the M3 unnecessarily ? Accidents happen due to X reason's but does that give anyone the right to torch someone else's property ? Also why wasn't the M3 taken into police custody which is the normal protocol in case of a crash ?

[A.K]

Originally Posted by stanjohn123

So now who is going to sue the guy's who torched the M3 unnecessarily ? Accidents happen due to X reason's but does that give anyone the right to torch someone else's property ? Also why wasn't the M3 taken into police custody which is the normal protocol in case of a crash ?

Who is going to sue? No one, coz the owner's family torched it I hear. Why wasn't the M3 taken? Because in India you can do anything when you have a stronghold in the area.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

Agree with your thoughts. However can we take a look at that 60 year old senior citizen on the scooter? Had he or his pillion worn helmets? Was his bike road worthy (as far as I read, he had no working headlights), was he obeying traffic rules (he cut across the median or pulled up into the wrong lane). In most civilized countries, the scooterist, would be at blame, and if alive would be hauled off to jail.

What about the village mob? Who among them was arrested for arson?

You may take a million unroadworthy vehicles, being driven badly, at any moment, and, as and when something happens, pick on some aspect such as the age of the driver. It may or may not be relevant. Please remember that, in this case, we still have no definite knowledge of what actually happened or whose fault it was.

Originally Posted by R32_GTR

Irrespective of age, most motorists on our roads shouldn't be given a library card, let alone a drivers license and we have a whole lot of motorists. So we both might have been a bit biased one way or another with our attempts at rationalizing the situation?

Speaking of statistics - Here's my source - http://morth.nic.in/writereaddata/ma...e/File1465.pdf

Yes, you are right: not safe with a library book, let alone a car or a bike.

I am very nearly 63 years, which might give you a clue to my bias. I think there is an age at which the risk profile reverses, and failing observation and reaction along with failing to admit and take account if it becomes a danger. Yes, age has its dangers just as youth does.

What I say is correct for UK, but you refer me to an India-specific document. Thanks, I will loo at that. Another UK-specific thing is that the most dangerous years of one's driving life are the first two after passing one's test. These things may be country specific, and there is some difference in infrastructure, but the nature of people is not so different. The over-enthusiastic youth is still over-enthusiastic, and the doddery oldie is still doddery.

And sure, one can set fire to one's own car if you want to.

By the way: is there any actual update on this case, or is it all still rumour and supposition?

Sometime later...

I went through that document, and found that there is a table of non-driver victims classified by age, and clearly 25-65 is a period of our lives when we would be safer staying at home! I could not find data about accident by age of driver. Please point it out if I missed it.

[Taronish_E]

Purple Audi R8 Spider just crashed into a Honda City at Marine Drive around 5:30 AM.

Have pictures but don't know whether to share them here or not.

A good thing is I saw no blood. No injuries or deaths seemed to have occurred and that is an acceptable outcome.

[Rosso Corsa]

Originally Posted by Taronish_E

Purple Audi R8 Spider just crashed into a Honda City at Marine Drive around 5:30 AM.

Have pictures but don't know whether to share them here or not.

A good thing is I saw no blood. No injuries or deaths seemed to have occurred and that is an acceptable outcome.

Yes thankfully no casualties.

Here's the Honda City's front after the crash. I'm assuming it rear ended the R8 Spyder (?)

[Taronish_E]

Originally Posted by Rosso Corsa

Yes thankfully no casualties.

Here's the Honda City's front after the crash. I'm assuming it rear ended the R8 Spyder (?)

RossoCorsa, it didn't rear end. Seems to be another case of either misjudged turns or the Honda driving the wrong way . The R8 was struck on the front passenger side by the front passenger side of the Honda. I can't possibly imagine how they managed that.

[Rosso Corsa]

Originally Posted by Taronish_E

RossoCorsa, it didn't rear end. Seems to be another case of either misjudged turns or the Honda driving the wrong way . The R8 was struck on the front passenger side by the front passenger side of the Honda. I can't possibly imagine how they managed that.

The front side doesn't show any signs of damage, at least in this photo clicked after the crash (assuming it's after the crash because of the deployed airbags)

Photo found on Instagram