[ebonho]

Originally Posted by ku69rd

There only true innovative product is their TB 500

I would disagree on this one as most Bulleteers would.

Their best product to date was the Machismo LB 500.

[bblost]

This bike looks very nice.

But asking a bullet guy to give a honest answer about this is impossible.
Its like asking a person to comment on a member of the opposite sex in the presence of the spouse.

[Haroon]

I am not a bulleteer, and personally I dont see many bullet riders being fascinated by the SR400 coz bulleteers I believe have a very different perspective.

Having owned/ridden some really fine bikes on the planet, I must admit I still miss my first love- my RD350 which I sold off in 1990. Have thought many times of restoring an old RD but didnt go down that road as its just not feasible under my present circumstances.

The SR400 is surely a legend in its own right, but as a die-hard RD lover who likes to relive how good old motorcycles were meant to be, my heart & head would easily bypass this SR400 towards the Bonneville or maybe a CB1100 to ride a classic with new technology (and with no rusted body parts on new bikes, you know which bike I mean!), where I can spend whatever precious time available riding rather than wrenching or complaining....

[Mpower]

Although it matches the specs and looks of a Bullet, the key question is weather you get the signature 'thump-a-thmup'

Being a dirt bike derived engine, I think not !! & that should answer you question.

[am1m]

Why Bulleteers? To my eyes, this bike is more evocative of the RD350 than the Bullet. What do the RD aficionados think?

Originally Posted by ku69rd

Can you elaborate more on "No one can beat a Bullet".

+1 to that! The Bullet is a great bike all right, but the product and the service that the company provides today is nowhere near as great as the cult-image that has somehow gone into overdrive over the past few years. Surprisingly, it is the very customers who have suffered at the hands of the dealers (premium pricing for a not-so-premium product, unnecessary bugs in the bike (rust spots on a brand new bike?!), arrogant attitude, ridiculous waiting period, indifferent service) who are shoring up the Bullet brand!

Don't get me wrong, I have a Bullet and I love her! But I also have 2 other bikes (not premium by any means) that I use regularly, and the difference in quality levels, and more so, the stark difference in service satisfaction is just too obvious to ignore and accept with a "oh it's a Bullet" kind of remark.

I understand the love for a bike, I do. But let's think, are we just falling for the brand marketing here? Again, nothing wrong with that, but when a company's considerable order list leads it to take its customers for granted, then that's a bad thing.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by IQBAL VEERJI

All said and done .but it is a jap bike,in our Bullet owners words it is a PLASTIC bike. Most of the fitments looks to be of plastic..Bullet toh Bullet hi hai. No one can beat a Bullet.

What if you heard this bike produce a better thump than the beloved "Bullt"?
What if you heard this bike produce a marvelous thump moving in front of your eyes while your "Bullt" lies with the mechanic at a garage most of the time ...
What if you saw this bike and saw the impeccable paint work, fit and finish while your "Bullt" starts rusting the very next day you bought it ...


One thing is that this is a Yam - reliability and quality is consequential - something our Royal Enfield brethen will never understand.
Second is that this is a single cylinder - so it definitely will thump. Now the torque curve comparison with the Bullet can only determine whether this bike will have the thump or not.
Third, even the RE bikes of today cannot recreate the magical sound of the old Bull.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by alpha1

What if you heard this bike produce a better thump than the beloved "Bullt"?
What if you heard this bike produce a marvelous thump moving in front of your eyes while your "Bullt" lies with the mechanic at a garage most of the time ...
What if you saw this bike and saw the impeccable paint work, fit and finish while your "Bullt" starts rusting the very next day you bought it ...

It still will never be a Bullet.

I've owned three Bullets over 10 years. Ridden close to 150,000 kms on them. Over most of India. This "mechanic more than road" thing is an urban myth.

Sure Bullets need more attention, no one denies that. But seriously, saying that they are at the garage most of the time rather than the road is stretching an argument beyond the elastic limit.

One thing is that this is a Yam - reliability and quality is consequential - something our Royal Enfield brethen will never understand.

I am one of your Royal Enfield brethren and I am the first to admire the build quality and finish of all Yams. Consistently down the last 2.5 decades since my high school days.

Second is that this is a single cylinder - so it definitely will thump.

Not at all. All large capacity singles are called "thumpers." That's clasification. The thump of a Brit single is very very different to any large capacity Jap single or even the modern Euro singles like the Duke 690 for instance.

Third, even the RE bikes of today cannot recreate the magical sound of the old Bull.

Agreed. My Classic 500 sounded and felt like a big Karizma.

[navin_v8]

Well as a Bulleteer here are my thoughts. Firstly let us not compare these two bikes as they both are different. One is a true blue retro Japanese bike while other is a pure English retro bike, albeit the Bullet especially the CI's(right gear and left brake) have the same technology from the 50's.

Many motorcycle manufacturers are going the retro way read Kawasaki W800, Truimph Bonneville, etc.(Kindly note these two are parallel twin bike with 800cc and upwards) These two iconic motorcycles also have retro looks but are stuffed with modern technology. When it comes to these iconic motorcycles we cannot compare as each has its own charm and feeling. Let's not forget like our beloved CI Bullet these motorcycles too have their distinct personality and fan following.

In my opinion this Yamaha SR400 is a looker with technology to match. For an enthusiast like me motorcycles like Yamaha SR400, Kawasaki W800, Triumph Bonneville, etc. would not be an alternative to my Bullet but will be like companions to my bullet in the garage. It would be like riding each of these beauties in turns.

[ku69rd]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Not at all. All large capacity singles are called "thumpers." That's clasification. The thump of a Brit single is very very different to any large capacity Jap single or even the modern Euro singles like the Duke 690 for instance.

Doctor,
My reasoning would be that the Japs use the more reliable OHC (Over Head Cam Shaft) system compared to the outdated Push Rod Technology that is found on Harleys & Bullets. That gives you the typical Thump compared to the Phuss Phuss

On your CL 500 sounding like a Big Karisma, the Catalytic converter in the exhaust might be the dampener. Did you try removing that silencer and fitting in a a free flow to observe for the exhaust note?

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by ku69rd

Doctor,

Doc will do bro.

My reasoning would be that the Japs use the more reliable OHC (Over Head Cam Shaft) system compared to the outdated Push Rod Technology that is found on Harleys & Bullets. That gives you the typical Thump compared to the Phuss Phuss

Whatever the technicalities may be, my point was that while traditionally all large displacement singles are called "thumpers", only the Bullets and old Brit singles actually ''thump." Its not just the sound. Its the whole feel as well, the low revs.

On your CL 500 sounding like a Big Karisma, the Catalytic converter in the exhaust might be the dampener. Did you try removing that silencer and fitting in a a free flow to observe for the exhaust note?

As I said, its not just a sound thing. Its the overall feel of the bike, the way it idles, and revs. I sold that bike within 3000 kms.

[iron.head]

Originally Posted by ku69rd

PS: Am not writing this to spawn the traditional conflict of Bullet Vs Jap Bikes. Just making an attempt to draw parity. Apologies if this hurt you cause there was no intentions from my end to do likewise.

Originally Posted by ebonho

As I said, its not just a sound thing. Its the overall feel of the bike, the way it idles, and revs. I sold that bike within 3000 kms.

UCE breed of bullets come with their own set of niggles and low refinement levels. For example, till the end of first quarter of 2012 the wiring harness provided in UCE's was of very poor quality and the connectors start rusting within a few months. Every week tens of wiring harness were replaced in Classic 350's due to electrical issues. It is pathetic that RE could not get rid of electrical issues till 2012 when other manufacturers have mastered such areas in building a motorcycle.

Another prominent issue in winters, which many UCE owners must be facing is noise from auto decomp. This part again suffers from issues reported by a large number of owners. A kat-kat noise is produced for some minutes on a cold start in winters and RE can do nothing to fix it. Such irregularities in quality and design take the charm out of owning a Royal Enfield.

I own a Classic 500 and despite all my efforts to take care of my bike(warm up every morning without revving, oil change every 1500-2000 kms, etc etc) I am facing issues every now and then and am fed up due to the same. I have invested around 1.5L in this bike and will never invest in a bike from such a manufacturer ever.

I am looking forward to a new ride next year which does not suffer from design and quality issues unlike the ones produced by RE.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by iron.head

UCE breed of bullets come with their own set of niggles and low refinement levels. For example, till the end of first quarter of 2012 the wiring harness provided in UCE's was of very poor quality and the connectors start rusting within a few months. Every week tens of wiring harness were replaced in Classic 350's due to electrical issues. It is pathetic that RE could not get rid of electrical issues till 2012 when other manufacturers have mastered such areas in building a motorcycle.

Another prominent issue in winters, which many UCE owners must be facing is noise from auto decomp. This part again suffers from issues reported by a large number of owners. A kat-kat noise is produced for some minutes on a cold start in winters and RE can do nothing to fix it. Such irregularities in quality and design take the charm out of owning a Royal Enfield.

Don't want to turn this into a traditionalist Bulleteer UCE bashing thread, but you have just skimmed the top creamy layer of the barrel here. There are n number of almost new bikes with stripped gearboxes seen, requiring entire engine to be cracked open. Blown big ends, almost impossible to rebuild to factory spec. Multiple (and repeat) seizures. Blown sprag clutch bearings. EFI issues and fouled plugs. And the magneto side cover single restaining bolt stripping and taking the entire primary case with it leading to catastrophic failures. These are just some I have heard of and seen. Am sure there would be more.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by ebonho

It still will never be a Bullet.

I've owned three Bullets over 10 years. Ridden close to 150,000 kms on them. Over most of India. This "mechanic more than road" thing is an urban myth.

Sure Bullets need more attention, no one denies that. But seriously, saying that they are at the garage most of the time rather than the road is stretching an argument beyond the elastic limit.

Of course, I exaggerated by saying that a bull spends most of the time in garage. But the point is that in terms of reliability RE really needs to work hard.

I am one of your Royal Enfield brethren and I am the first to admire the build quality and finish of all Yams. Consistently down the last 2.5 decades since my high school days.

Even I own RE. Thunderbird. AVL. 2003
I have faced certain frequent issues, which many other also ppl have.
Especially something like cam profile getting worn out!!
Rusting on chrome parts!
Clutch wire wearing out and breaking, no bracing for the back seat/ rear back rest.

Then I read a case (on this forum) about how all drum brake bulls steer towards right while front braking!

Let's not even start about the electric start.

Not at all. All large capacity singles are called "thumpers." That's clasification. The thump of a Brit single is very very different to any large capacity Jap single or even the modern Euro singles like the Duke 690 for instance.


Agreed. My Classic 500 sounded and felt like a big Karizma.

Of course if its a short bore single cylinder its not gonna sound like a thumper.
Anyway I haven't heard the Yam SR400 to actually like/dislike the sound.

[Ajaybiz]

Heard some power comparison between Yam and Bull, as per my real life experience these claimed power are not even close to what they claim, i can bet for 25% less power when they are on dyno and these figure varies as per the manufacturers standard.
SR is sure for me but not now i may need couple of more decades, I cant digest vibrators, I gave blunt comment to Harley Davidson guys after riding their big twin bike, I need torque but not at the cost of vibration across the bike including the rider. And Bulls are known for their vibrations.

[COUGAR]

Originally Posted by ebonho

To underpowered, please add "overweight" too, at 190+ kilos.

How much does your bull weigh? My RC mentions a figure of 183 kilos, and puts out 18bhp at the crank?

Originally Posted by ebonho

When you are comparing such bikes, 27 bhp (of the Classic 500) versus 30 bhp (of this Yam) is not really much of a talking point is it?

are both manufacturers using the same set of standards when they provide these figures? The devil as always is in the details.

is the figure of 27bhp at the crank or at the wheels? ANd what about the Yam? What are the power to weight figures when?

In any case, i am sure Yamaha bikes will be more reliable steeds than anything from the Enfield stable. ANYONE is!

Chod na BSDoc! (as in LEAVE IT not F**K IT) As they would say in your town, "Chaalto tevha Raja sarkha, Thambte rani saarkhi!) :P

Godspeed