[anilupadhya]

Originally Posted by ebonho

I echo your sentiments bro. But Bajaj just does not have any congruence with RE's business outlook and philosophy. RE volumes do not excite or even prick Bajaj because they probably sell more units per month than what RE sells in one or even more years. So the way Bajaj looks at a product will necessarily be different.

Their philosophy behind the Adventure is that sure it will do initial good volumes. But those will comprise of the only guys who are looking for this kind of "specialized" bike. Once that boom is over, there will be a sharp dip in further sustained demand for an Adventure type bike.

Doc,

I am sure you have observed, that of late we have a lot of bhpians in their 30's to 50's getting into motorcycling and a scouting for motorcycle which has a sense of maturity, looks inconspicuous and have good power. Most of them currently look towards a bullet for the same reason even though it runs on tractor technology.

Now if the adventure version is made keeping the Indian requirement (read good pillion seat, comfortable ergonomics, suspension and decent looks), it should do well with the middle class segment who want a weekend entertainment. And knowing that the basics (engine chassis) are already developed the cost involved in producing an adventure bike isn't much, considering KTM are already experts in this segment. Fine tune the suspension, plonk a decent wind deflector, adjust the placement of foot pegs and the tourer is done.

Making it comfortable to ride is the key.

KTM, Please please dont deny us the adventure model.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by anilupadhya

Doc,

I am sure you have observed, that of late we have a lot of bhpians in their 30's to 50's getting into motorcycling and a scouting for motorcycle which has a sense of maturity, looks inconspicuous and have good power. Most of them currently look towards a bullet for the same reason even though it runs on tractor technology.

Now if the adventure version is made keeping the Indian requirement (read good pillion seat, comfortable ergonomics, suspension and decent looks), it should do well with the middle class segment who want a weekend entertainment. And knowing that the basics (engine chassis) are already developed the cost involved in producing an adventure bike isn't much, considering KTM are already experts in this segment. Fine tune the suspension, plonk a decent wind deflector, adjust the placement of foot pegs and the tourer is done.

Making it comfortable to ride is the key.

KTM, Please please dont deny us the adventure model.

I have always agreed and mirrored this view. Hope KTM and Bajaj agree as well. Its been KTM's bread and butter, with street bikes and faired bikes being their new forays. I am sure they could make an Adventure (or have already made one under wraps) with their eyes closed and their hands tied behind their backs, with a liberal dose of ketamine thrown in for added measure. It would be truly difficult to live down for them if TVS-BMW get there first ......

[anilupadhya]

Originally Posted by ebonho

I have always agreed and mirrored this view. Hope KTM and Bajaj agree as well. Its been KTM's bread and butter, with street bikes and faired bikes being their new forays. I am sure they could make an Adventure (or have already made one under wraps) with their eyes closed and their hands tied behind their backs, with a liberal dose of ketamine thrown in for added measure. It would be truly difficult to live down for them if TVS-BMW get there first ......

Doc,

Looks like your ask for a 390 supermoto is going to be answered, however will be arriving a little late. Got me super excited.

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-...ied/24161.html


.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by anilupadhya

Doc,

Looks like your ask for a 390 supermoto is going to be answered, however will be arriving a little late. Got me super excited.

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-...ied/24161.html

Yeah I saw this elsewhere yesterday bro, and yes, it did send my pulse racing.

Initially I thought the photo was from the mountains up north (Dehradun in particular) and that and the exhaust end can got me thinking it was the Indian 690 Duke.

But this article says the photo is from Europe (Austrian registered bike, posted on an Italian forum) so its very/equally probable that they are testing the Enduro/Adventure 390/200 there.

Chassis and Suspension setup is a KTM specialty so its not unthinkable that they do the development there with the initial testing with their pro riders before doing the rest here at Chakan.

Personally though, I would be extremely disappointed if they launched a Supermoto in India versus an Enduro/Adventure/Trailie version with big tank and spoked wheels.

The Supermoto is a great toy, but rarely an only bike. More a second bike to have fun with, with a very limited and focused usage envelope. And it would still suffer the same two drawbacks of the Duke for the mountains - i.e. alloy wheels with tarmac tyres, and a small (in fact even smaller) tank. Yes the suspension would be beefed up, but that's it.

They could go the route of offering these 3 (wheels, tyres and tank) as after market KTM Power Parts, but seeing as how fuel lid stickers are priced when they are Power Parts, I might as well then import them myself.

[tharian]

Found this video of a Duke 690 being stripped totally, including the engine.
Informative,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FFQpFAU_So

[Abhi_Automobile]

So, I am alittle confused here. DO we have any news if the Duke 690 will be manufactured in India ( a la Dule 390/200), CKD operation or full Import?

From what I read, people seem to be biased towards manufactured in India. But, do we have any insider info or there or is it just a simple guess? Also, do we have any idea of the time frame for the launch

[ashkamath]

Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile

So, I am alittle confused here. DO we have any news if the Duke 690 will be manufactured in India ( a la Dule 390/200), CKD operation or full Import?

A section of the news so far in the media point out that Bike will be fully manufactured in India and so the cost will be down and price very competitive. There is also news that as the Duke 690 will be a totally new platform and Chakan is not ready for that, it could follow the CKD route and assembled in India initially and gradually indigenise the product. But everyone agrees that it shall be 2015 before the 690 sees the light of the day in India. so we have a full year (or more) to wait and save.

Now the focus is on RC series for this year 2014 and I guess the picture will be clear in the later half of this year as to what path KTM and Bajaj (either a fully indian product or CKD) decide to follow. So it is too early to speculate and anyways as it is over a year down the line, I am just contended with my 390. When the 690 comes we will see, as the saying goes we shall cross the bridge when we come to it. ( I mean we will deal with it when it's time comes)

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by ashkamath

There is also news that as the Duke 690 will be a totally new platform and Chakan is not ready for that, it could follow the CKD route and assembled in India initially and gradually indigenise the product.

As I said earlier, the fact that they are eventually and actually getting the 690 to India means that they are going to make it here. All 690s - not just "Indian" ones. That's the only thing that would justify the completely new assembly line and retooling and training and logistics chain that would be involved. And to sell in India, they cannot (will not) sell at Austrian KTM prices. Remember, a small round tank lid sticker of KTM Power Parts cost 2K+ bucks ..... and KTMs unlike in India are really expensive bikes abroad ..... supposedly more pricey cc to cc than their similar counterparts from BMW and Ducati for instance. Think what the 690 would THEN cost us here in India! They are not going to come to India only for a manufacturing hub. Not when there is a population of 1.2 billion with an upwardly mobile middle class of 400 million as a potential target population sample to play within.

[ashkamath]

Originally Posted by ebonho

As I said earlier, the fact that they are eventually and actually getting the 690 to India means that they are going to make it here. Think what the 690 would THEN cost us here in India! They are not going to come to India only for a manufacturing hub. Not when there is a population of 1.2 billion with an upwardly mobile middle class of 400 million as a potential target population sample to play within.

Doc, KTM will eventually make the 690 here for the similar reason like HD or BMW plant in India. While it will cater to the huge local market, the proposition is all the more tantalising commercially because then India would become an export hub for KTM. Considering the high cost of manufacturing the bike in Europe or elsewhere, it would only be natural for them to set base here.
You are right when you said that the upwardly mobile middle class of 400 million would be their target, but even a lower price tag between 3-4 lakh will psychologically render it out of the reach of most of the average Indian class Kitna deta hai mentality. Bajaj already has experience in this class with Ninja 650 and this will act as a barometer to test the Indian waters for CKD or Inhouse production of 690.
Next, the buyers of 690 will essentially be the Duke 200/390 / CBR 250 /Ninja 250/300/Hyosung 250 riders who are looking for an upgrade. and all will not definitely upgrade for many obvious reasons like price factor or being contented with their existing bike etc. There will be fewer riders from the 150-200 cc section who will upgrade to a 690 directly ( I say this because compare the number of 200 and 390 on the road with the Ninja or Hyosung 650s. riders would take one step upgrade a time). So you are looking at a not very large / fixed number of buyers of 690 in India. So definitely the company will take more time and weigh all the factors before taking the plunge with 690 in India unlike the way they did with 200 or 390 ( as pricing of both were on the fringe and not out of reach for many middle class Indians - again speaking mentality wise not monetary wise)

[anilupadhya]

Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile

So, I am alittle confused here. DO we have any news if the Duke 690 will be manufactured in India ( a la Dule 390/200), CKD operation or full Import?

Originally Posted by ashkamath

A section of the news so far in the media point out that Bike will be fully manufactured in India and so the cost will be down and price very competitive.

Originally Posted by ebonho

As I said earlier, the fact that they are eventually and actually getting the 690 to India means that they are going to make it here.

Originally Posted by ashkamath

Doc, KTM will eventually make the 690 here for the similar reason like HD or BMW plant in India. While it will cater to the huge local market, the proposition is all the more tantalising commercially because then India would become an export hub for KTM.

690 might not make it

KTM CEO Stefan Pierer has said the Austrian firm has 500cc and 800cc parallel-twin engines in development.

The new engines are likely to be used in production in the next three years and will be manufactured in India, for the Indian market, to avoid strict import duties, he told Overdrive.in.

Mid-sized models such as the 690 Duke and 690 SMC are currently not available in India due to high import costs.

Pierer also explained that the new RC125, RC200 and RC390 models will be launched in India mid-2014 and development of a new focused off-road model will begin utilising the same engines.

An adventure tourer with a larger tank, based on the same platform, is also likely to be produced according to Pierer.



Read more: http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-...#ixzz2t1BW5qjL

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by anilupadhya

690 might not make it

Thank god for the adventure tourer! They really need to bring that out with the 390 engine. Really, we don't need any more firepower than that one in this country!

[ashkamath]

It seems so. the 690 may not make it to India, and even if it does, then the price could be quite steep and beyond affordable range. and for another 20 Km increase in top speed, I don't think I shall be keen to shell out over half of Million (Rupees that is).

and it seems Mr. Pierer has plans for new twin parallels for India, but that could take another 3 years ( definitely more than that) and by that period lot of water would have flown in India Biking scenario (what with Hero Hastur knocking the door already and may be Mahindra or TVS have some surprise in their kitty too and all the Japanese companies falling over each other for their share of pie in the Indian sports bike market.

So it appears that some of us are in for a long haul with our 390s unless we loosen our purse strings (reluctantly) to shell out quite a lot more for the next upgrade.

Adding to what anilupadhya already mentioned in a post below with regard to Stefan Pierer speaking with overdrive on the sidelines of 2014 Auto Expo, Pierer also mentioned that

Pierer said KTM is also looking at the 690 Duke for India, but while producing or assembling it here is not currently an option due to low expected volumes, importing it directly requires both homologation and high duties which raise the prospect of unviable sales

http://overdrive.in/news/ktm-conside...ikes-in-india/

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by anilupadhya

690 might not make it

What is interesting is that he is talking about two diffrent platforms for the 125/200/390.

A "focused off road model" and an "adventure tourer" - the key word in the report being "also." This is honestly great news, because we really do not have a decent dirt bike in India, which one can have as a second light peppy rough use bike to bash around and have fun with, without any serious purpose. An adventure tourer is a totally different category and class.

Originally Posted by Red Liner

we don't need any more firepower than that one in this country!

Who is "we"? I for one definitely want the 690, and need the 690. I got bored pretty quickly of the tame 390.

Originally Posted by ashkamath

Adding to what anilupadhya already mentioned in a post below with regard to Stefan Pierer speaking with overdrive on the sidelines of 2014 Auto Expo, Pierer also mentioned that

http://overdrive.in/news/ktm-conside...ikes-in-india/

Really really disappointing start to my day man .....

[kolimuttai]

One of the best news. I love this country. When it rains, it rains awesome.

Down the line next year imagine shopping for a efficient commuter cum tourer.

[ashkamath]

Originally Posted by ebonho

I for one definitely want the 690, and need the 690. I got bored pretty quickly of the tame 390

I agree with you on that Doc. Now that brings a thought to me. I have read scores of threads where the rider rants about his ride being slow and how he is dying to lay his hands on a 650cc or a 800cc or a litre bike and also how the 30 or 40 HP is not thrilling enough and the holy grail is definitely over triple digit HPs or whatever is the fastest on the road today. I have had my fair share of rant too.

Now the question to all is. what ever you may be riding, may be a CBR 250 or a Ninja 250 or a Pulsar 220 or a Duke 390. Have you really exploited your bike to the fullest in terms of speed, handling and in all possible ways before saying "I have no more to exploit with this bike. I have extracted the max possible from it and there is no more juice left and I need to move on".

I for one am an average rider. never did daring (read reckless) speeds on my Pulsar earlier and there were many better riders in my group who could ride faster and handle the bike better ( be it cornering or braking). So that means I still had a lot to learn and exploit and extract from my Pulsar. But I was only a mediocre rider doing some occasional bursts of high speed on straight roads and gloating over it and considered myself a complete rider and I need an upgrade. I never exploited or extracted the fullest from any of my earlier rides or drives for that matter.

Now my 390. I have done some decent distance and speeds but no where have I fully exploited the 390. I bet many of the riders haven't done that. I agree we have had our moments on road, but a 390 is a very superior machine and a lot can be done on this bike. I am yet to master my 390 in terms of handling it or taking the best out of her, but then I start salivating on the Hastur or 690 or a N650 thinking ..wow. that is 70HP top speed is 200 Kmph wow and I NEED IT.

A rider who could not fully 100% exploit / extract from his Pulsar 180 (I am speaking of me) is now dreaming of owning a 650 / 690 cc bike and what then. Again I might do an occasional burst of high speed on a straight road, over take some lesser mortals, gloat over my bike, it's performance and consider myself a biker. the one thing I feel is I will become a lazy biker as I progress higher up as I really don't need to work hard or sweat any more and a mere blip of the throttle can push all the lesser mortals and lesser Gods on their 250's 390s in to oblivion. So does that mean my skills are better or that I am extracting the max from my new machine or I am a better rider?

The other day a friend of mine from Bangalore who had ridden down to Goa for IBW was telling me that his Suzuki bandit is slow and he wants to sell it and upgrade to a much faster bike and I was wondering like -Man has this guy has really mastered the bandit in all possible ways that the bike has to offer or one of his friends on a Busa over took him at one of the rare straight stretches on the highway which made him to comment that his Bandit was slow. and at KTM Orange day at Goa, a couple of months back there were lot of participants enthusiastic ( some without proper gear, but that is another matter) with their 390s and I was surprised at the way many rode their bikes. The Orange day was essentially a skill test and some had no idea what they were doing on the track. some could not negotiate simple turns, there were a couple of crashes, no leaning, braking, entry/exit errors and such aspects. So the point is there is so much to learn, to understand. to practise, to improve before we really master our 390 and then it kinda of gets boring ( as Doc said) and then you know, it is time to look out for an upgrade.

The question that arises is how a progression / upgrade should really be? should it be influenced by peers? should it be influenced by a bigger bike in the market? Questions are plenty. and I started to realise that I have a long way to go with my 390 before I can even say that " Yes. I am done with 390. there is nothing more in any possible way this bike can offer me than which I have extracted and grown over. Now I am ready for the progression. I am ready for the next upgrade". But as I said earlier, upgrade removes all the fun as a slight blip is all that is needed higher up there and there is not much learning (except to blip sensibly) and even I may not need to change the gear too as first and second gears are more than enough to squash any challenge.

If all I want is to beat the next guy from signal to signal, do I need a bigger bike? I could be a better rider on my existing bike for that purpose. If I want to just pose with a bigger bike and I have the dough, then it is a totally different matter ( they are a different breed of riders), so I need to ask why do I need another extra 20 or 40 horses under me? what am I going to do with it?

But Doc. I agree that you need an upgrade because I know you have extracted every possible ounce of power from your 200 and also exploited all her handling / braking prowess. You are one dude ready for a 690. while most of us (including me) can do (should do) with our existing rides and learn to exploit them to the max. May be some time in distance, I may say that " Yes Now I am ready"