[pramods]

Thanks Haroon, BMW are segment leader and Triumph as I understand made Explorer to compete with GS and they are getting a fair response. Hope BMW GS/A prices get reasonable in India and people would be able to appreciate both the bike for what they offer.
As I understand GSA performs better in off road condition, while Explorer may have some edge on on road performance. Both are very desirable machine having some unique engineering with boxer and triple engine.

-Pramod

[mobike008]

Haroon, thank you for sharing that. Only thing missing is a side-by-side pic of the Beemer and Triumph

Fantastic comparison report of 1200GS & 1200XC and coming from an expert like you means its solid information

[IronH4WK]

on my drive to Goa in June, this Triumph Tiger 800XC blew past me on the NH4. caught up with it at the next pit stop wondering what the heck is this (had never heard of it before).

















now i know it has a elder brother

congratulations on the acquisition Pramod and wish you many happy rides.


ps: the couple on the TT800XC were heading to the Himalayas.

[Haroon]

Originally Posted by mobike008

Haroon, thank you for sharing that. Only thing missing is a side-by-side pic of the Beemer and Triumph

Fantastic comparison report of 1200GS & 1200XC and coming from an expert like you means its solid information

Thanks Avi & Pramod. Not an expert Avi. Just that I have had the GS for a while and also had exposure to a variety of bikes.

Sadly on the last day, we unloaded our stuff in the B&B and when I went to return my bike, I forgot to take my camera, so no pic of the XC I rode. But on the arrival day I had clicked pics of their garage which is mostly BMWs but with a few Triumphs and Multistradas. Some pics here without hijacking Pramod's thread

Not the bike I rode. Thats the regular Exp 1200 near an army of 1200GSs..



Their 2014 Liquid cooled R1200GS Adventure for the taking. But I went with the RT due to its better luggage capacity (esp with my lady travelling with me)


Thats my own trusty old lady in Bangalore




The 2014 Liquid cooled R1200RT that we rode for 2,400kms in the Adriatic countries. This is at Lake Bled in Slovenia

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by Haroon

But on the arrival day I had clicked pics of their garage which is mostly BMWs but with a few Triumphs and Multistradas. Some pics here without hijacking Pramod's thread

Iam sure as long we are talking about adventure bikes and Tiger's competition, Pramod would surely not mind ( Iam hoping so)

Thats a typical scene in most bike stores across US, last month clicked lot of mobile pics in Seattle and Boston of GS, Tiger and Multistrada as they are parked in heaps exactly as I see in your picture.

Are they available for rental or outright buying?

Originally Posted by Haroon

The 2014 Liquid cooled R1200RT that we rode for 2,400kms in the Adriatic countries. This is at Lake Bled in Slovenia

Lovely picture. Btw, I too bought same colored converse tee shirt in my recent trip to US

P.S: I wonder what stops you from starting your own bike thread here or atleast a travelogue of your global bike trips. Trust me, it will induce a lot of interest in members across the forum

[Haroon]

Originally Posted by mobike008

Are they available for rental or outright buying?

This pic is just one side of the garage. I saw atleast 40+ bikes there and all bikes are for Rentals only.

Originally Posted by mobike008

Lovely picture. Btw, I too bought same colored converse tee shirt in my recent trip to US

P.S: I wonder what stops you from starting your own bike thread here or atleast a travelogue of your global bike trips. Trust me, it will induce a lot of interest in members across the forum

Many thanks. Indeed, eastern europe was absolutely mesmerizing. Picked mine at Wrenthams in Boston

As much as I would like to share ride reports here, the only reason I am unable to post my travelogues here is due to the large amount of pics. All our blogs are very pic intensive since I have an 'advanced version' GoPro sitting on my back seat. So after all filterations, we normally have per trip atleast 300-400 pics plus few videos categorized by each day and since I post on couple of other forums that allow third party pic hosting, here it again becomes a long process to reload all the pics and put the write up in between all over again. Plus, since the signature does not allow links to www, my personal website is in my member profile, where anyways all the trips (including our recent Limca record) and useful tips for riders wanting to do foreign bike trips is documented. Pramod got the gyaan from my video how my short wife mounts onto the rear seat of the tall GS. So its only this above limitation for me.

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by Haroon

So after all filterations, we normally have per trip atleast 300-400 pics plus few videos categorized by each day and since I post on couple of other forums that allow third party pic hosting, here it again becomes a long process to reload all the pics and put the write up in between all over again. Plus, since the signature does not allow links to www, my personal website is in my member profile, where anyways all the trips (including our recent Limca record) and useful tips for riders wanting to do foreign bike trips is documented

I agree with you that our forum rules are strict but, they are like that for a reason

Content can also be copied pasted but, agree reducing picture size to meet our 1mb per picture limitation is a lot of work.

But, I sincerely wish you would share a full blown travelogue with lots of pics or your ownership thread here sometime in future

Sorry Pramod for hijacking your thread. Look forward to next installment of your story whenever it happens....

[pramods]

I believe its a good discussion happening here, would love to hear more from Haroon and others, any adventure riding info is a good info, even though I love Triumph explorer XC but I do love other bike in this category specifically would love to ride GSA, Multistrada or Yamaha Super Tenere, they are all too good to be ignored.

Wanted to ride today, but rains are not allowing it, maybe tomorrow.

-Pramod

[pramods]

Finally, myself on XC showing the ride height


From other angles


One more



I am getting used to height and weight, still getting this on centre stand is still hard, if you are not at right position then it's almost impossible, but if everything is right it's easy to get on centre stand !

-Pramod

[Haroon]

Pramod, thats a ruggedly handsome bike. Some more sharper pics on the highway are overdue here

Myself while first time moving from regular bike to the Adv Touring bike, as far as riding experience was concerned, probably you also felt it, its a little vague coz your tilt angles etc are a little higher than you are used to and can initially be a little funny, but after that initial getting used to, its a lot of fun. Besides, you get a commanding position of the road ahead and the wide handle bar gives you better leverage when the road surface is uneven.

Although the Multistrada 1200 is also generally included in the Adv category and can do some elementary off road work, actually I would slot the 1200GSA, 1200XC and Super Tenere 1200, KTM 1190 Adv in the true Adv touring category coz on these latter 4 bikes, a competent rider can drop the tire pressure (I guess normally about 18-20 PSI) and take off on hardcore dirt trails and flog them well. Even damage from normal get offs wont be too big on the pocket, whereas, with the MS1200, you can seriously damage the alloy wheels, besides that kind of power on dirt (even set on its lowest mode) is much more than what one would need. I think BMW is almost ready for the forthcoming Intermot show in Italy with the S1000F Adv bike (4 cylinder with chain drive) taking a direct shot at the MS1200. I would guess these bikes can be slotted in the new breed of adv-sport-tourers that maybe targeted at retiring supersport riders who want to move to a touring bike that is still aggressive & agile but more comfortable on a long journey.

As for off roading, when I bought my GS, I was fixed that I wanted a good touring bike that can also handle bad roads, but I was not looking at doing those trail rides and desert safaris. Hence picked the regular GS with alloy wheels. However, if anybody is considering these bikes for lots of off-road touring/riding, importantly these are 'heavy dirt-bikes' and hence unless you have some basic training on off-roading or unless you take it easy you could hurt yourself and the bike. BMW has its off-road training centers in Hechlingen, Germany. They also run classes in few other parts of Europe/US. The best thing about these classes (in Hechlingen atleast) is that they give you the bike (1200GS or 800GS) and there are no charges for 'damaging' the bike...so you can learn better knowing at the back of the mind that dropping the bike wont end your session or entail a costly trip to your local dealer

Ride safe

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by pramods

Finally, myself on XC showing the ride height

Woah, the bike looks really handsome and unclear pics ( one of them is completely blurry) isnt helping

As Haroon mentioned, some sharp pics of this beast on the highway is due

[rashreddy]

Originally Posted by pramods

Finally, myself on XC showing the ride height
I am getting used to height and weight, still getting this on centre stand is still hard, if you are not at right position then it's almost impossible, but if everything is right it's easy to get on centre stand

The Bike looks huge Pramod.. No wonder these Bikes draw so much attention wherever they go.. But please do post better pics that do full justice to the Bike

Originally Posted by Haroon

Although the Multistrada 1200 is also generally included in the Adv category and can do some elementary off road work, actually I would slot the 1200GSA, 1200XC and Super Tenere 1200, KTM 1190 Adv in the true Adv touring category coz on these latter 4 bikes, a competent rider can drop the tire pressure
.
.
.

Superb Stuff Haroon This will really help a lots of guys here
How would you rate the Aprilla Caponard? Is it also in Multistrada category or tougher? and also the Suzuki VStorm and also the Kawasaki Versys which i thought they were going to launch here.. How do all these compare with the Tiger and 1200GS?
Does the BMW actually deserve to command such a hefty premium over the other bikes just on Brand value? As it is the other Bikes themselves dont come cheap and cost 20 or upwards of 20lakhs
Many Thanks

[Haroon]

Originally Posted by rashreddy

Superb Stuff Haroon This will really help a lots of guys here
How would you rate the Aprilla Caponard? Is it also in Multistrada category or tougher? and also the Suzuki VStorm and also the Kawasaki Versys which i thought they were going to launch here.. How do all these compare with the Tiger and 1200GS?
Does the BMW actually deserve to command such a hefty premium over the other bikes just on Brand value? As it is the other Bikes themselves dont come cheap and cost 20 or upwards of 20lakhs
Many Thanks

Thanks rashreddy.

A small typo correction in my hurry in my previous post- the Intermot is in Germany

In this wonderful thread of Pramod, one of the most heartening things to see is that there is a small but rapidly growing group of bikers in India who want to enjoy the lovely biking world beyond the ‘Doom’ type of inline4, fully faired, crotched seating, loud exhaust…..sports bikes. Till some years back here in India adventure touring bikes where simply looked upon as a lost in translation bike…It was like that very tall girl in school who was good in studies but not everybody wanted to be seen with her! And on the all important 10km weekend ride to the local joint (for the posing crowd), there was nothing much in terms of outright performance to brag about so that bike was non-existent. Now, that sure is changing with serious touring enthusiasts wanting something different and 3 cheers to Triumph for presenting these bikes in a ‘relatively’ affordable range and being lenient with demo rides for serious enthusiasts.

Taking a little liberty from Pramod on Adventure touring subject on his thread and coming to your query on the Caponard, while I have ridden the Multistrada1200 back in 2010 when it was launched (I was blown away by that bike), I haven’t ridden any of the Aprilias till date. So a new Caponard owner like our fellow member-Rossiter will be the best person to shed first-hand knowledge on that bike. In the meanwhile, from my long association on international touring forums, I have noticed that the earlier generation Caponard was a well liked bike in Europe as well as US. It was a fairly durable & go anywhere bike, but riders stayed mostly on paved roads. Their only weak point in general were the electricals (like most earlier Italian bikes). The new Caponard has been completely revamped with a punchy motor and lots of electronics. From a touring point its again in the same league of ‘Adventure-sport-tourer’ like the MS1200 but from what I gather some of the main differences in these two wonderful bikes is: The MS1200 definitely is more powerful, has much more sharper handling, more on the sporty side of touring and lighter in weight, while the Caponard is more on the softer side of suspension etc, which means it has more emphasis on the touring side of adv-sport-touring description, and more comfy, but definitely heavier. Both bikes have got their own versions of the ‘intelligent suspension’ which basically understands the kind of road surface/speed and automatically adjusts the suspension to your needs. Ofcourse, being Italian, you get what you pay for so the stock suspension, wheels, brakes & other components etc are all top notch stuff. Indeed the MS1200 is a lot more expensive than the Caponard.

Coming to the V-Strom, a riding buddy here in Saudi had the first generation V-Strom650 and we always exchanged bikes when I had my earlier R1100RT, so I have ridden his bike for many many kms. It was an absolutely wonderful machine, dead reliable, easy to maintain- rather rarely needed any maintenance other than oil changes. Honestly it could do about 80% of what a regular GS can do at probably one-third the BMWs price. It also had a good gas mileage. The earlier generation 1000 although a good bike, it was not a big seller. The new 650 & 1000 are substantially revised bikes and great value for the money as long as you are not addicted to the inline4 engine. The V-twin has a character of its own and most people fall in love with it after a while. I would have still preferred the V-strom650 for Indian market over the 1000 for being offered at a lower price range and the 650 is more than adequate for our riding conditions even with a pillion & luggage.

As for Versys1000, just prior to purchasing my recent bike in Saudi, the Kawasaki Concours14, there was a sparingly used Versys for sale and I took it for a small test drive. Seating, riding & handlebar position etc was almost like the GS and the engine was almost similar to my 2007 Z1000, which btw is a brilliant engine, but since I already have the GS in India and since I have been on shaft driven bikes for a long while, I didn’t buy it. If not I would have definitely purchased the Versys1000. It’s a lot of bike for the price as it comes standard with Traction control in different modes, ABS etc.
These 2 are UJMs which you must remember while being extremely reliable and easy to maintain etc are always made to a particular price point. So its natural you cant expect top notch components like Ohlins, Brembos etc, therefore some bit of limitations on suspensions, fork play etc will be there, but as long as it’s the bike that you are in love with, these can be easily remedied with a host of aftermarket stuff for these bikes. Touratech, Twisted Throttle etc are aftermarket companies that make a living mostly from adventure touring bikes.

All said, these 4 above bikes have long travel suspension, higher ground clearance, windshields for better wind protection, luggage rack provisions etc, but they all come with alloy wheels, so your true off-road adventures are limited to some light duty only. A serious alloy wheel damage can set you back anything from Rs 50K to 100k or more per wheel. Whereas spoke wheels on the Tiger, Explorer, GS/GSA, Super Tenere, KTM1190 can take a lot more beating and tackle hardcore off-road stuff.

As for BMW, if anybody has noticed their prices in Europe & US (its biggest markets), for the past 6-7 years the prices there have remained almost on the same level. Besides, in those markets the base model S1000RR or 1200GS is probably $1000-1500 costlier than their completion from Japan. Whereas here in India its a combination of factors that put their prices high up on the roof. Firstly, it’s a pure dealer initiative to order the bikes from BMW Germany (not BMW India) and sell them, so they just pay the full price, import it and put their markup and sell it. That’s why you don’t see much adverts, lenient demo rides & other promos etc since BMW Motorrad Germany is not participating in any of these and they have to be funded exclusively by the dealer. Secondly, they mostly import the top of the line full option bikes that naturally take the prices to the sky. Thirdly, currency fluctuations play their own game. Lastly, at the prevailing prices only a small percentage of their buyers are serious enthusiasts who can afford them.

In the above scenario, all above bikes being CBU imports, Aprilia has a very small functioning dealership network some of which I am told is good, Ducati is still vavering, BMW is already highlighted here while Suzuki & Kawasaki(if they bring the Versys1000), are going to be ‘bought’ (rather than being sold!). Hence with Triumph churning out some high quality, reliable bikes and having a full fledged dealer network and parts support, their Tiger & Explorer have a very good potential to ‘Triumph’ over the others if they stick to a game plan for the long haul in India.

Ride safe & hope to see more adventure touring bike ownership threads here

[pramods]

Originally Posted by Haroon

.......
In this wonderful thread of Pramod, one of the most heartening things to see is that there is a small but rapidly growing group of bikers in India who want to enjoy the lovely biking world beyond the ‘Doom’ type of inline4, fully faired, crotched seating, loud exhaust…..sports bikes.

.....

Thanks Haroon, appreciate your effort in putting these details here, your experience counts. I hope and sincerely request you to frequent this thread and treat this more from adventure touring rather than my Explorer XC thread.

-Pramod

[jkdas]

Originally Posted by mobike008

I agree with you that our forum rules are strict but, they are like that for a reason

Content can also be copied pasted but, agree reducing picture size to meet our 1mb per picture limitation is a lot of work.

But, I sincerely wish you would share a full blown travelogue with lots of pics or your ownership thread here sometime in future

Sorry Pramod for hijacking your thread. Look forward to next installment of your story whenever it happens....

Congrats Pramod. Hijacking continues since you have 'the bike'.

@ Avi; There! Haroon & company!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=jzq-4VRYULE

Yet to see a Tiger here at Trivandrum but I know someone got it few week back. I might goto Triumph Cochin this week along with another TBHPian ( hope he books a Bonnie ).