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Originally Posted by ebonho I do not know who the "we" refers to but most of us here were referring to the the massive mismatch between the weight and the power. |
In all its rightness "we" refers to all of us on the forum.
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Yes, weight just on its own is a huge liability off road.
It becomes even worse when its mated to an anemic motor.
Clue: The Bullet.
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In that case people should also start dumping the KLR650(underpowered in your parlance with 37 BHP for a 180+ kgs and 650cc motor) which is a legend in its own right and draws huge numbers of adventure touring riders. Bullet has proven itself in its heyday and still does. The 41NM of torque and 27 BHP on my Tbird is adequate for my needs and No I don't feel the motor is all that anaemic.
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You continue to extrapolate international riding experiences on to the Indian riding scene and its unique needs.
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If you understand benchmarking then yes, also some of these adventure motorcycles are ridden on terrains and temperatures worse than India.
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Of the Adventures, I've ridden the Tiger. Its huge. It handles well. Its even done well in the Raid (a Pune boy, who trains with a close friend of mine, also on a Tiger).
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So what's your point here, meaning did its heavy weight bog him down, I don't think so and the results were to be seen on his cool performance on the rally raid. Also our very own Tbird500 which tips the scales at almost 200kg has participated in raid the Himalaya and garnered good points.
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These bikes are heavy by any definition. Not just my parlance.
A 200 kilo Ninja 650 feels heavy. Try doing off road with a Ninja 650 what you would with a lighter bike.
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This is where the difference comes and it depends from rider to rider. I have rode by Tbird500 which weighs in at 200kgs on dirt trails and offroading upto several kms. Refer to one of the pics on my Tbird500 thread to see the trail.
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These 220-250 kilo Adventures would feel light and flickable compared to massive Harleys and luxo barges like the Honda Goldwing.
Does not make the big Adventures light bikes. It just makes them lighter than the really heavy to heaviest ones.
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First of all these two categories are poles apart and cannot be compared one are heavy cruisers and others are adventure tourers, both meant for a totally different purpose.
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Apparently, not just to me, but many others as well. Many (except you) on this very thread incidentally. Again, it would be a good idea to discuss these things as an Indian biker riding in India and not continuously talking of what riders do abroad.
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Benchmarking is the key word mate. There are also many riders abroad who ride a Bullet(anaemic in your parlance) and are very happy about it. They think it has adequate power and does its job well.
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Chalk and cheese. 280 kilos is 100 kilos more than your now-shifted goalpost of 180 kilos.
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Mate you need to understand the examples I was giving for easy understanding. I took Adv Tourer right from 180 to 280 kgs to explain how riders still buy those motorcycles despite of their weight. As for the goal posts they are not goal posts they are a weigh scale of adventure class motorcycles.
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That's the equivalent of adding a very big/fat guy on to the bike before you or your luggage even gets on to it. Or one and a half healthy Indian guys. Or two really scrawny college types working out to become race jockeys.
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I fail to understand your point once again, bringing in weight of all these factors.
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There is a humungous difference between the 180 kilos you have now come down to (shifting goalposts?) and the 210 kilos the Benelli weighs in at.
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I have never mentioned about 180kgs being heavy you are assuming it so. Also the Tbird500 I own weighs 200 kgs dry without luggage and rider, but it still has enough juice to go on and never feels stressed.
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My post above was to show to you mainly that just the weight of a bike means nothing. The Adventures you referred to in your post earlier were mostly 1200 cc behemoths that all produced enough bhp to pull that weight. 130-160 horses pulling 220 kilos is VERY different from 46 odd horses trying to lug 210.
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To your liking you are just targeting the 1200cc behemoths and ignoring the other 650 and 800cc motorcycles I have mentioned. Classic case is the KLR650 which has 37BHP and still pulls 180+ kgs without luggage and rider.
Hope you can appreciate the point that was being made.
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It is the KLR I was referring to as the Bullet-like throwback to a simpler time that is much loved, but will never really improve greatly in terms of performance. It was and will always remain a venerable slow battle tank.
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There's no reason why KLR650 is a favourite among adventure tourers slow or whatever.
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I believe we are on Team BHP. Let's discuss Adv Rider on Adv Rider. And discuss simply the bikes here?
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Referencing does no harm. There's a lot to learn all over the place.
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The Bullet is an oddity for those guys. An amusing and nostalgic one at that.
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There are a lot of reviews that focus on its fun to ride factor and many other aspects besides nostalgia and other such stuff.
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Nothing more nothing less. Please do not read any more into the photo of the fully laden Bullet doing the Leh circuit (something which Kinetics have done in the 90s) as anything more than that.
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That's what I exactly posted for when someone brought in reliability of the Benelli over Kawasaki. Ride does not matter what matters is the rider.