[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by ku69rd

Wow seriously? Thats a lot of mile munching. How are the bikes holding up?
Any funny Engine noises or tappets making their own orchestra?

Knowing the Jap reliability, these machines should be good for atleast 100K before anything happens

Yeah man. No funny noises nothing. No tappets, all cams. Just zip zap zoom. I think your body will start making funny noises before the bike ever does

100k is nothing. If the servicing is done properly, you are talking 200k at the very least. But by then you will probably have gotten bored of the poor bike and you know upgrade bug and other excuses.

I have my bets on atul.ktm here who will probably be the fastest 50k on the versys pretty soon.

[Red Liner]

Initially my wish list for the 50k service of Tess was a pretty long one. Sanity struck and I got it pruned down to something that can get done 48 hours.

1. Throttle Body disassembly, rip apart every single thing, cleaning, and put back.

2. Vacuum Sync

3. Oil Change

4. Air Filter replacement.

Throttle body was quite mucky, but not too bad. I think what saved the body from going nuts was I always fuel up from Reliance/Essar/Shell/CoCo in that order. I hardly ride in traffic in the city. And over the course of the last 10k kms, have been religiously using liquimoly injector cleaner every few tank fulls.

I have scheduled things like fork oil replacement, valve clearance check, and steering stem bearing replacement etc in the next service.

[Red Liner]

Quick hard ride to Tanjore and back last weekend. Wanted to see the Brihadeeswarar temple, and three others on the versys decided we will do this together.

The weather is turning warmer as we speak, it was much nicer to ride at night. Guess, riding season is all but over in the next few weeks.

[Red Liner]

Got new 40 litre (total) saddle bags from Held germany.



I already have:

1. A 40 Litre top box
2. A 35 litre tail bag

When I go long distance beyond a week, the top box is usually left behind especially if I know rough roads are de rigueur. The top box I have found extremely useful for trips upto 4 days. Phenomenal, everything I need goes into that top box and off I am!

Beyond 4 days leaves me with just a 35 litre tail bag, which refused to cut it for things I might need for beyond a week's travel (I usually always carry an extra pair of shoes to walk around, a pair of flip flops etc) - especially if the top box stays at home.

These are dry saddle bags, and are also semi rigid. Mounting them was very easy and quick.



A pleasant surprise: No saddle stays needed - most likely. I am yet to test these bags with a full load in them, but I think they do not need stays.



This piece, which is used by Kawasaki as an OEM mount point for the OEM panniers are pretty useful to prevent the bag from sliding inwards. The front end is looped around the sub frame to prevent from flying around.



Plenty clearance to the wheel.



I will need to hook these two D rings at the rear to each other - so they self adjust and keep both the bags from flying up and down at the rear.



I have looked and looked around in India, and waited and waited for Via Terra to come up with something for the Versys which is water proof inside AND out.

I do have a pair of custom saddle stays for the bike, but the more I add stuff to this bike, the more I realise that less is more.

[hema4saran]

Your post is inspiring me to go for the Versys 650 here in US. I recently completed my US motorcycle training and got my license endorsed. Currently I got an offer for brand new 2018 model year Versys 650LT variant for around $7800. It comes with below factory installed options.

1. Two big hard saddle bags on both sides which can be opened by ignition keys. The guy told that it can fit a full faced helmet and few other stuffs in a single bag.
2. Hand guards.

The price is mouthwatering as it is almost $1800 off the sticker price and he has only one available in stock of 2018 unsold inventory.

My major apprehension with this bike is its weight and I still don't know how I am going to convince my wife for riding in US. BTW I am 6.1 and weighing around 75kg. I have ridden Classic 500 for short distances in Chennai traffic but no prior super bike experience.

My first plan over next weekend is, I am renting a 500CC motorcycle and ride it for one complete day to grasp the power delivery and weight of it. My other option is to get a Vulcan or Honda Rebel 500. Both are excellent cruisers and comes with ABS as an option.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by hema4saran

Your post is inspiring me to go for the Versys 650 here in US.

My first plan over next weekend is, I am renting a 500CC motorcycle and ride it for one complete day to grasp the power delivery and weight of it. My other option is to get a Vulcan or Honda Rebel 500. Both are excellent cruisers and comes with ABS as an option.

Hey hema,

A good adventure bike fills many purposes for you at the same time.
1. Good commuter (bags, easy to ride in town, good torque).
2. Can rough road (good suspension, can stand and ride)
3. Can tour (upright, large tank, good pillion seat, luggage, good economy figures)
4. Traffic light GP's if thats your thing (quickshifters, more tech with the euro's, some of them are very quick and can give sports bikes a run for their money).

So I would suggest you strike out those cruisers unless you're a cruiser fan boy.

The cool thing is you're in the mecca of two wheel supermarkets, so take your time to rent, ride and decide. Considering its winter still in most parts of the states, any purchase you do before the onset of spring will fetch you a rocking deal.

You have a good height at 6.1, so almost all ADV bikes will suit you. Don't worry too much about weight, unless you want to seriously offroad, which makes no sense. Just buy a cheap trails bike and have your fun instead.

And you don't have to graduate slow to the ADV class of bikes. The best thing about ADV bikes are, they are extremely forgiving to a new rider. You can go straight to a 60-100 BHP motorcycle as long as you are considerate to yourself and others on the road (maturity).

If I were you, I would put these into my consideration set - all new:

1. Honda Africa Twin (there's a member here in TBHP in the US, come off a bullet like you and seems to be having a great time with her).
2. KTM's new 790 Adv launching in a few months
3. Versys 650 (not the 1000 - its too big, too much bike on two wheels).
4. VStrom 650 XT (you will get equally if not better deals on this along side the V650 above)
5. Yamaha Tracer 700/900 - excellent bikes for pure road touring. Definitely test these out.
5. BMW 750/850; Ducati Multistrada 950; Tiger 800: These are outliers - good power, very expensive both to buy and own.

If you pushed me to a corner about making a choice within a 8k USD budget, I would choose hard between the Vstrom and Versys and Tracer. Between the three, I would probably get the Vstrom because of traction control, a much better instrumentation panel, and a 19 inch spoked wheel with tubeless tyres as I usually ride more offroad oriented. If choosing to stick on road, I would choose the Tracer from Yamaha because atleast reviews say the engine is a class apart.

If you asked me to make a choice in India today with all three above bikes at disposal, I will choose the Vstrom.

The next option on my list if I raise my budget to say under 10k USD (with good discounts - i think it retails closer to 13-14k USD) will be the Africa Twin for its DCT gearbox, and no nonsense Japanese reliability. Dont even bother with the manual.

The last option if I really feel like a show off will the new KTM 790 ADV - which I think is upwards of 11k USD but comes with so many goodies, that it will make your buddies eyes water.

Have fun shopping! And let us all know how it goes.

[bigron]

@redliner - I would suggest to avoid any sort of injector cleaners in your tank. They will eventually clog your injectors and leave a residue on your throttle bodies/butterflies. Yes, they end up doing the exact same thing they are used for to avoid in the first place
Quality Fuel from a reputed bunk is the best way to go about it.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by bigron

@redliner - I would suggest to avoid any sort of injector cleaners in your tank. They will eventually clog your injectors and leave a residue on your throttle bodies/butterflies. Yes, they end up doing the exact same thing they are used for to avoid in the first place
Quality Fuel from a reputed bunk is the best way to go about it.

Weird. Guys abroad on their Versys (and knowledgable ones at that) use things like Sea Foam and Lucas for years now.

I know you've got experience with two wheels, so I will defer to you and caution ofcourse, but do we have any proof of these things doing otherwise?

And if that's the case, almost everyone here using these injector cleaners on cars might have similar issues?

I have a can and half lying around.

[bigron]

Sea foam is a general purpose additive that can be used in various applications from cars to lawn mowers.It does have a staunch following and alot of Hayabusa owners also swear by it. It was originally meant for two stoke engines to free up the rings and to aid de-carbonization. Ofcourse people also use it in their clutch as well as cranks. I ve used it and mostly before I have to change my oil. Helps in removing alot of muck. Or I think it does. Also helps if the bike is sitting idle for a long time.But not exactly same as injector cleaners.
I can speak from personal experience. I used to use one of these injector cleaners on my old Gen 1 ( sold at 55,000 kms). Surely after some months their was a distinct layer of residue on my butterflies and the injectors were no clean either. It was traced to the injector cleaner I was using. Have not used it on my Gen 2. I am not sure how many people use it but most of my riding group stays away from them.
Never the less, you can use the bottle you have lying around. And, as long as you are happy with the product and it makes your bike run like you want it, go right ahead.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by bigron

Never the less, you can use the bottle you have lying around. And, as long as you are happy with the product and it makes your bike run like you want it, go right ahead.

People have been using Sea Foam/ Lucan Upper Cylinder cleaner for a while abroad, and I dont think that is exactly the same as a Liqui moly injector cleaner. And People have only good things to say about Lucas.

So now I understand - that Sea Foam/lucas are probably very different from an "injector Cleaner". I considered them to be the same thing, and since I couldn't find lucas or sea foam locally, I procured the next best thing - or so I thought. The former are probably more fuel conditioners.

Is there any product that pure petroleum based like Lucas or Sea Foam in India? I understand where you're coming from - more additives/detergents are probably not a good idea.

I will also probably have the throttle body removed and cleaned more regularly going forward alongside a vacuum sync (say every 20k kms).

Like I said earlier, I will defer to you and your experience.

[bigron]

I am not sure how much your bike has covered but my Gen 2 is around the 45,000 km mark I think and I have yet to sync the throttle bodies or even clean them. I do alot of touring or at least used to. I do reach for the fuel filter/pump in a while to see if it has any impurities.
I am not sure of a product available locally that can be effectively used as an injector cleaner but I can ask around.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by bigron

I am not sure how much your bike has covered but my Gen 2 is around the 45,000 km mark I think and I have yet to sync the throttle bodies or even clean them. I do alot of touring or at least used to. I do reach for the fuel filter/pump in a while to see if it has any impurities.
I am not sure of a product available locally that can be effectively used as an injector cleaner but I can ask around.

I have done 50k on the Versys.

Kawasaki recommends a throttle body sync every 24,000 kms, and after having done it now, I really think that must be followed to the T.

My TB was full of muck when I cleaned it, luckily my pilot adjuster screws were moving. Two others I know are not so lucky (one at 43k, and the other at 30k) and their pilot screws refused to budge. Not sure what the way forward is for them.

I can only talk from my experience, and I am very careful about where I fill fuel - but I think that the throttle body atleast on the Versys 650 needs to be cleaned fairly regularly in a place like India. It's an air/fuel mixture that goes in, so where you ride (overall air quality) also matters, and India and the places I ride around to is terrible atleast from what I see the condition of the air filter is in after 10k kms (OEM grade reusable air filter).

The versys does not have a separate fuel filter - the filter is integrated as a part of the pump and cannot be cleaned independently. If the filter is screwed, the entire pump assembly has been recommended to be replaced by Kawasaki.

[hema4saran]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Hey hema,

A good adventure bike fills many purposes for you at the same time.
1. Good commuter (bags, easy to ride in town, good torque).
2. Can rough road (good suspension, can stand and ride)
3. Can tour (upright, large tank, good pillion seat, luggage, good economy figures)
4. Traffic light GP's if thats your thing (quickshifters, more tech with the euro's, some of them are very quick and can give sports bikes a run for their money).

Thanks for the detailed inputs. I set my eyes on Versys 650 and Vstrom 650 only for now as it falls right on my budget. Even my motorcycling instructor advised me not to touch the European brands as first motorcycle for a beginner. Unfortunately the Versys which I was eyeing got sold out yesterday and as of now my plan is to rent and ride on weekends. I am getting most of the super bikes at less than $100/day with insurance for rentals.

I will PM in case if I have more questions on the V650.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by bigron

Sea foam is a general purpose additive that can be used in various applications from cars to lawn mowers.It does have a staunch following and alot of Hayabusa owners also swear by it. It was originally meant for two stoke engines to free up the rings and to aid de-carbonization.

Something I found written online over at the Versys 650 Forum which I think makes some sense along side what you've been saying all along. So PEA is the golden rule.

Seafoam, as with many additives, consists of a solvent in a light oil carrier. Iirc in the case of Seafoam the solvent is naphtha. It works OK for dissolving fuel varnish because that's what it's designed to do. The problem with injecting it into your manifold is that 1) It's not very effective and 2) You end up burning the oil carrier. That's why it smokes so badly. Burning oil from any source isn't good for your engine and it especially isn't good for your catalytic converter if you have one.

I prefer using water for de-carbonization and using a top tier gasoline along with a PAE (polyetheramine) based fuel additive a couple of times a year. That'll keep everything including the injectors clean. Gumout Regane (the yellow stuff in the clear bottle), Redline SI-1, and Techron Concentrate are all PAE based.

I said what the consequences are in a recent thread. It was rebuked so I left it up to the members to decide. You have to remember I deal with this sort of stuff all the time so when I run into those who "know better" I back off.

I'll say it again: The product has it's uses but this isn't one of them. Using it this way only lightens your wallet and shortens the life of your cat without benefit. The product is mostly light oil. Where do you think all the smoke comes from? Since when is combusting oil in either the cylinders or converter good? Rich mixtures kill cats so oil won't? If it removes any carbon it'll only be a tiny amount. If all you have is a tiny amount you're doing more harm then good because a small amount works to protect the piston crown. Good thing it comes right back, which makes the "treatment" even more of a waste. If you want to clean excessive carbon use water injection, an overnight piston soak, walnut blasting, or any of the other *proven* methods. Once it's gone keep it at bay by regular use of a PEA based fuel additive.

Aside from all the other tests you could've done a simple way for verifying it's lack of effectiveness is to examine the motor, including the valves, before and after using a borescope. I have a surplus medical instrument I use for those jobs. It was originally designed for, well, lets just say it's been shoved inside far worse places than a motor. I would've suggested doing this except it's already been done by myself and many, many other people who aren't as gullible as most of the public. The results are always the same: it does squat. People who swear by it don't do science. They accept anecdotal evidence from others. Being ignorant is not the same as being a dumbass but imo anyone who uses something without understanding the science behind it, based on what others say who also don't, is.

At least you did some "research" even if it wasn't the best kind. And like most people you did it after the fact. Frankly, if I was going to rely on what others say about a product's effectiveness (and I never do) I'd sure as hell require a lot better than 50% odds before any cash came flying outta my wallet. And even if the product did work I'll point out injecting anything into the brake booster line results in a very poor distribution of it across cylinders. If you feel a need to dump stuff into your engine do it upstream of the plenum, through the throttle body for example.

As I said, the product has it's uses. It's popular with bikers for a reason. I ride also and used Seafoam in the fuel for years. The naphtha in Seafoam works well to clean fuel varnish in my Vulcan's carbs but after a bit of study and testing I found something that does a better job. Since you brought up Techron and I brought up PEA here ya go. It's the same stuff:

PEA is Polyether Amine. It's the active chemical in Techron and a few other aftermarket fuel cleaners. Chevron's Oronite Division is the inventor and world's largest supplier these days:

http://*******.com/y8v5ad

PEA is used in varying amounts in almost every quality gasoline made. The problem is unless you use one from the day an engine is new or rebuilt it takes time to clean things up. That and the amount varies from one fuel brand to another. The way to overcome this is to use a PEA based cleaner a few times a year or with every oil change and a good quality fuel (www.toptiergas.com) in between.

Typical fuel cleaners are solvent based and therefore cheap. They don't do much other than make your idle nice and that isn't from any cleaning action. PEA cleaners cost more because PEA is expensive to produce compared to solvents but also far more effective. The leading PEA based cleaners are GumOut Regane (yellow stuff in clear bottle), Redline SI-1, and Techron Concentrate. Each of these products has any where from appx 30-50% PEA with RedLine SI-1 having a slight edge. The cheaper Techron ProGuard also contains PEA but at a lower concentration. Not a good value.

Gumout Large Vehicle Fuel System Cleaner in the gold bottle is also PEA based. It contains the same percentage of PEA as does Regane but in a different carrier. It's 20 oz size makes for a better value if you can find it. Be sure it says "fuel system cleaner" and not "fuel injector cleaner". The bottles look nearly identical but the fuel injector cleaner contains no PEA.

I just wonder, does it make sense to just run 99 Octane Fuel every once in a while to get the whole system sorted instead of all this additive nonsense? Yes, I get that 99 Fuel wont burn off existing crap in the fuel lines. So a good PEA based fuel system cleaner every 5,000 odd kms might make sense.

[bigron]

I stick to 97 Octane only. ( I dont even know if 99 is available here). Of course its not available when I am out touring. Then I stick to quality regular fuel from a reputed bunk. Yes, the bike will run coarser with increased vibes but thats about it. I generally do not like putting additives in my tank.