[am1m]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Trump is back with his strong opinion against the 50% CBU tax India charges on imported Harley Davidson motorcycles

Am quite puzzled by this, they sell what, 200 bikes a month on average in India? Is it worth escalating this 'less than a drop' in the bilateral trade ocean? I'm sure there are other items and trade avenues that the US can arm-twist us on, why this?

Guessing it's just Trump's MAGA (make America great again) showboating. HD is identified strongly as a 'US brand' so this is probably a more emotive issue even if it's really not worth much in terms of trade. Big bike sales are always going to be just low in our country. I don't think there will be a dramatic jump in sales even if they get rid of all import duties. (And personally, even if a HD were priced on par with any of the Indian bikes, wouldn't touch one A Kawa Z or a Ducati on the other hand...hmmm (just a personal opinion, HD loyalists, please don't jump on me.))

[GTO]

The trouble continues for Harley-Davidson. Sales dropped 8% in the USA as well as internationally - link to article:

Though the company beat on earnings, it slumped on sales. Worldwide retail sales decreased 8.4% in the second quarter. U.S. retail sales were down 8% in the quarter and international retail sales down 8.9%.

Harley said the declines were driven by weakness in developed international markets.

Harley-Davidson has struggled in recent years with declining sales at home and abroad. The company’s bike deliveries are down by 5.3% from a year earlier, according to the second-quarter earnings report. In Asia and the Pacific, Harley has seen motorcycle retail sales drop by 4,165 units from 2016 to 2018.

The region’s largest motorcycle market — India — has also seen the company’s sales fall 21.6% from 3,690 units in 2016 to 2,676 units sold in the first quarter of 2019.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Merchandise division is seeing a loss of revenue as well -

According to Biz Times, a news partner of WISN 12, the General Merchandise organization saw declining revenue percentages each year since 2016, citing Harley-Davidson securities filings.

2016: 5.4 percent - $284.6 million

2017: 5.3 percent - $262.8 million

2018: 4.9 percent - $242 million

First six months of 2019: 4.6 percent - $120.1 million

Source

Employees in the Merchandise division lose jobs in Milwaukee -

CHICAGO (Reuters) - Harley-Davidson Inc has laid off 40 employees at its general merchandise division in Milwaukee as part of a restructuring exercise, according to a company official with knowledge of the matter.

Source

[basuroy]

Most of their bikes are priced well above 10L on road , same as a Ducati Monster or Supersport . Forget the difference in engineering , even on brand value alone , Ducati is "cooler" than a Harley. Harley's sell because they are perceived as cool and trendy - riding those 250-400kg tandoori ovens though is self inflicted torture in our climate.

It has been over an year since I relocated back to Kolkata - this might sound odd but I have not spotted a SINGLE Harley bike in this entire period except a Street 750 once in S city mall parking - the same mall has a HD apparel store as well and that is the only reminder I get that this brand exists in Kolkata at least . Ducati or triumph or Japanese makes though can be spotted easily in the park street area on any weekend .

[bj96]

Originally Posted by basuroy

...I have not spotted a SINGLE Harley bike in this entire period except a Street 750 once in S city mall parking...

Harleys are eye candy. Wherever I have gone (and I have ridden mine to different parts of country including Nepal), it becomes a selfie seekers' and Romeo-Juliet's toy. If left unattended either the bike will fall or will be vandalised by them. Hence, I don't park mine at any public parking, including malls- FYI.

-BJ

[basuroy]

Originally Posted by bj96

Harleys are eye candy. Wherever I have gone (and I have ridden mine to different parts of country including Nepal), it becomes a selfie seekers' and Romeo-Juliet's toy. If left unattended either the bike will fall or will be vandalised by them. Hence, I don't park mine at any public parking, including malls- FYI.

-BJ

Good to know . I saw many parked openly in Siliguri when I lived there - mostly in front of resorts which I myself would frequent during my own rides . And I used to spot them every week, often in groups of 2-10 bikes on the roads there . That is why their complete absence from the streets here in Kolkata is surprising to me . I don't think it has much to do with owners fearing their bikes being vandalised if they ventured out with it .

ps: when I think about it , I am yet to spot even a single Enfield twin here , the only time I saw one on road is at Hyderabad .

[alphadog]

I can totally see why the sales of Harley are going down all over the world. The Harley was the instantly recognisable dream cruiser bike for many of the previous generation. There was a certain amount of bad-ass swag associated with it. Now with the advent of the much better built, lighter, more powerful, smoother bikes the newer generation does not aspire to get a Harley anymore. It is now easy to compare the bike with other better bikes and when one is plonking upwards of 6 lacs, one thinks why not get a smoother and arguably better bike for the money. Of course, there are the die hard fans who will continue to buy and also upgrade within the family. But, these numbers are dwindling.

I for one got myself a Iron 883 around 3.5 years back. It was more of an aspirational thing and also to be a part of the HOG. I did a ton of modifications and customisations, however, nothing can take away the raw and rough nature of the bike. The engine is vibey, the stock suspension sucks and the brakes are nothing to write home about. The only thing going for it is the street presence and the typical sound of the bike, which is a sure shot attention grabber and a head-turner.

I own a Z900 as well, and now when I want to ride, I just walk past the Harley and plonk myself straight on the Japanese inline 4. The aural pleasure and ride experience is leagues ahead of the primitive Harley.

The biggest joke I feel is the 'electric Harley' . It is like a drowning man clutching on straws.

Cheerio!

[sukiwa]

Change of guard at the top to turn around falling sales; Board member Jochen Zeitz will become acting president and CEO.

Jochen Zeitz was asked to take over after Chief Executive Officer Matthew Levatich stepped down following the Milwaukee, Wisconsin-based company’s worst sales performance in at least 16 years. Harley-Davidson said Zeitz will serve as interim CEO until an external search firm helps find a new chief executive.

Michael Uhlarik, founder of consultancy Motorcycle Global, said Levatich’s exit was expected. He said Harley was likely to give Zeitz a long run as he has “proven turnaround” skills.
Zeitz is well known for transforming the loss-making Puma in the 1990s into one of the world’s top three sports brands.

Source: MoneyControl
Source: CNBC

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Looks like Harley Davidson is having conflicts with its biggest investor - Impala Asset Management, who wants the company to return to its 'roots' and target the core riders once again.

An independent director, mutually agreed on by Impala and Harley, will join the board after the company’s annual meeting, which was held in May last year, and before July 31.

Impala, which owns roughly 2% of Harley’s stock, nominated two directors two weeks ago as the $2.8 billion hedge fund wanted the iconic American brand to return to its roots after focusing on electric motorcycles and concentrate on its core riders. It had criticized the company for losing market share and for being slow to fix poor returns. In January it pushed for the ouster of Chief Executive Matt Levatich. He resigned in February after five years as CEO during which the company lost more than half of its value.

Source - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...KBN21H27D?il=0

[samyD]

RF9 summarizes it perfectly: "I think Harley's best hope is to accept that their good run has waned into a good night".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOwxxsPaogY

[avishar]

Just to update this thread, Harley Davidson seems to be on a constant downward spiral in India. Over the years, Harley has lost 50% sales in India.

Harley’s India sales dropped from 4,708 units in FY 2015-16 to 2,676 units in FY19.

Harley-Davidson, Hero gear up for India ride

Indian Two Wheeler Sales Figures – FY2020

In FY2020, that sales figures declined to 2470 and of it 1190 - a staggering 48% - of which is the Street 750. If you take out the Street 750 and Street Rod, Harley sold sell than Triumph in India. No wonder they are seeing declining profits if their premium range is hardly selling, and the bulk of their revenue comes from their cheapest offering.

What is eating into Harley sales? Those looking for a 'premium bike' gravitating todays better priced Kawasaki products? Kawasaki sold a very impressive 352 Z900s this year, down from 450 of last year but it is probably to do with the depressed economy and COVID impact in Feb-Mar. So in a good year it can shift 500 Z900s.

One might ask, how can we compare the two brands and those motorcycles? Well in India, the majority of the premium bike buyers are looking for brand image and riding image and are not buying Harley's for long distance cruising. It is all about the Sunday Breakfast Run!

What about Royal Enfield? Are they affecting Harley sales? Maybe for some who were thinking of stretching their bank balance to get the 750. A staggering 20,188 650 Twins were sold by Royal Enfield in India. That is a lot. To add some context, KTM managed to sell around 6000 390s in India last year.

Lastly, one more reason I feel is that ADV bikes in India are fast becoming the "IN" thing to have. Honda sol 62 Africa Twins last year. BMW and Ducati both sell 100+ 1250s and 1260s. BMW and Ducati are also seeing a good response to the 750/850 and 950s. These bikes get a lot of eyeballs at the Sunday Alu Parathe meet and are comfortable and 1260 in particular is quite fast. Fifty sales here a hundred sales there starts putting pressure on Harley's most expensive offerings like the Fat Boy.

[bj96]

Originally Posted by avishar

...
In FY2020, that sales figures declined to 2470.. 352 Z900s... offerings like the Fat Boy.

Looking at the numbers you shared, while rest of the two wheeler companies fell by over 15% in FY2019-20, Harley in India managed to contain the fall at less than 8%. I think, then it is unfair to say, HD India did bad in a Industry which was generally contracting.

It is unfair to count just the numbers e.g. we can't say Alto sells 15,000 units a year and BMW 3 series only sells 1500 units, so latter is a failure. Fat Boy on road costs upwards of 20 lakhs which is like almost two times a N900. So, with 200 sales of FB in a year, even in value terms it was equivalent to 400 pieces of N900. To me actually HD India did decent. You may dislike a brand or product- that's fine. But don't yet say its a failure.

In past two years, Harley has been optimising their portfolio and have done away with Dyna range which was an affordable high CC product range from them. Now they have made Softail range pretty wide like 12L to 22L and with launch of Low Rider in India and some newer models I expect them to do better (subject to Covid impact).

Originally Posted by avishar

... are not buying Harley's for long distance cruising

Not true. Well some do to show off and small Sunday rides. My Fat Boy has been on Solo or Duo rides that some Tiger or GS owners are still dreaming about in my circle :-) Yes Fat Boy is heavy (350kgs with accs), low slung, long wheel base, low GC. It is not flickable like a normal lightweight 200Kg bikes. But on the tarmac (although I have accidentally taken it mild off-road too in Nepal) its a very very comfortable cruiser. Take a test ride if you haven't

Disclaimer: I am Fat Boy owner and a happy one. My views can be biased against the sentiment of this thread.

-BJ

[ThePatientMan]

So finally curtains for Harley Davidson in India.

Just saw this news articles :

https://www.livemint.com/auto-news/h...945557588.html

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/78295446.cms

Wonder what happened to the ongoing discussion of HD's tie-up with Hero MotoCorp.