[Bhatman510]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

https://jalopnik.com/harley-davidson...er-1822557878/





India however looks stable for now.

Wonder what is stopping them from bringing the Street 500 to our market. With fall in sales in the US market, they should be more aggressive in expanding to countries like India.

There trying to still go after there 2 million rider goal in the USA. No one other than older dudes want Harleys here in the USA. If I ever went with the cruiser style id go with the Indian Scout, Triumph Bobber or even go Indian with the RE 650s. Harley has that aim to get the USA back but dont realize the rest of the world is key. Honda has been steady with there sales growth and Triumph has gone crazy with sales.

Interesting tidbit is the push on the Livewire. Hopefully they dont treat it like a Buell.....

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by Bhatman510

Interesting tidbit is the push on the Livewire. Hopefully they dont treat it like a Buell.....

If they think their sales will do a 360 degree just from the launch of the Livewire which is at least 1.5 years away they need another thing coming.

What they need to do ASAP is something radical which is shed that aura and image they created around themselves which is becoming their primary reason for their slow and steady death and revamp the existing range and make it more modern if they want to survive beyond next 5-10 years.

Motorcycling industry is changing rapidly especially for the matured western countries and people dont want lifestyle bikes but, ones that they can tour and not use it to flaunt their lifestyle and one of the primary reasons are low sales are even the 40-60 age range which is one of their largest consumer base is also moving away from cruisers to touring machines. The craze is still there in developing nations but, that too will steadily fade away.

[wangdu]

Originally Posted by alphadog

.....I have owned both brands and I still am holding on to a Harley. The bikes are raw, too much vibrations, loud and very unrefined. They are sure shot attention grabbers and an have an instantly identifiable branding. I cannot deny that there is a certain feeling of machismo and badass-ery when riding the Harley with its V twin sound and customisable features.

But I don't think that is enough to survive in this day and age of discerning riders, better refined bikes with more features, butter smooth engine and much better handling.
...

I'm that 1 less count in the dwindling Harley's sales figure.

Some 11 months ago I had my finances in place for once and I'd hoped to strike off long standing item on my bucket list, 'The Harley Davidson'.

Like most, I too was (still am) enamored by the brand and since then had envisaged owning a shining Harley. But experience shattered my HD dreams. For the rider in me, the alternative i.e. Bonnie simply felt flawless. The refinement and performance of Bonnie just couldn't be matched by Harleys I rode. A rider's heart break and new love in an instant isn't usual but it happened, such was the diametrically opposite experience.

HD will always have a soft spot in me and it is still a bucket list item to be struck off when I incline towards top of the line models as I guess the refinement & quality I would look for after experiencing Triumph, is perhaps in those very costly HD bikes, not in all.

[blackwasp]

American motorcycle maker Harley-Davidson announced their fourth-quarter profits recently. The profits fell 82% compared to the same period last year and the company also revealed that they would be closing their assembly plant in Kansas City in the state of Missouri.

Media reports have indicated that Harley-Davidson's worldwide motorcycle sales fell 6.7% in 2017 compared to 2016. Further, the motorcycle maker's US sales fell by 8.5% and the international sales were down by 3.9% as well. The company's sales figures have been consistently declining over the last 4 years, resulting in the announcement to close the Kansas City plant by the fall of 2019. The Kansas plant employs over 800 workers and it has been operational since 1997. Harley-Davidson President and CEO, Matt Levatich, revealed that the company would be shifting operations from its Kansas factory to their plant in York, Pennsylvania which will create about 400 jobs in York.

Harley Davidson also said that its net income fell 82% to $8.3 million in the fourth quarter of 2017, from $47.18 million in the same quarter a year earlier. The motorcycle maker has also been facing competition from other brands that have factories outside of USA. Combined with strong US dollar, and the low-cost manufacturing overseas, these companies have managed to price their products lower than Harley-Davidson.

Overall motorcycle sales in the US have declined by more than half over the last decade. The company's 10-year strategy includes training over 2 million new riders, growing its international business to 50% of sales and launching of 100 new "high impact" motorcycles in the market. The company also claims that its first electric motorcycle called Project Livewire would go on sale in the next 18 months.



Source - Journal Sentinel

Link to the Team-BHP News

[Doge]

This was and has been coming since long. The primary market of HD is middle aged guys but now they are getting old and the cult following is shrinking. Milineals don't usually prefer to get a slow and heavy Harley as their bikes, they prefer more thrilling bikes.
Now Harley can start making real sport bikes like they did with Buell but why would you buy it over the established sport bikes? What a dilemma Harley Davidson is in.
I suspect Royal Enfield will also end up like this in the future.

[marcussantiago]

Let's also not forget that millennials in America are all broke and drowning in crushing student loan debt. They simply don't have the kind of disposable income that their parents did at their age.

Another factor: In all but maybe a handful of states in America, it snows in winter. It's uncommon to use a bike as your primary vehicle, like it is in most Asian countries like India and China. Insurance is also massively expensive. So a bike over there is an expensive toy with little practical purpose. It's like owning a sports car or convertible - it won't be your primary mode of transport.

The tl;dr here is that the hot market is now Asia, where there's clearly a growing appetite for two-wheelers that are actually fun, rather than just sensible run-abouts that take you from point A to point B with minimal expense.

Now if H-D could just get over their own ego and "heritage and history" and blah blah blah and realize the potential gold mine they're sitting on, they could save the day by adding actual working brakes on the Street 500 and drop that on the Indian market with accessories at prices that actually make sense. If not, then their competition will simply fill the vacuum with better offerings and wipe them out.

/apologies for the rant
//just my two paisa
///too much coffee, etc.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by marcussantiago

Now if H-D could just get over their own ego and "heritage and history" and blah blah blah and realize the potential gold mine they're sitting on, they could save the day by adding actual working brakes on the Street 500 and drop that on the

"Heritage and History" can act both as a boon or a bane, depending on the situation. Harley Davidson has undeniably rich heritage - 115 years of it.Thats epic!

Reminds me of the book "Who says Elephants can't dance? Inside IBM's historic turnaround" - about another American icon that had grown for far too long and strong to adapt to the modern world. But that elephant did manage to survive and thrive, and their story is probably something Harley should study for their own course correction as well.

[payeng]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Wonder what is stopping them from bringing the Street 500 to our market.

Economics:

A Street 500 in India will not find many buyers if the price difference between the 750 and itself is not at least 1 Lakh

A Street 500 at a price difference of a lank between the 750 will simply cannibalize the 750 sales..

The end result will be that Bottom lines will be hurt

Originally Posted by mobike008

If they think their sales will do a 360 degree just from the launch of the Livewire which is at least 1.5 years away they need another thing coming.

Without the throbbing "Potata-Potato" and "Vibrations".. it CANNOT be a Harley. Harley Purists can't stand a Radiator Grill... would a Smooth - Gearless electric make the cut? An electric BMW C650 sounds more appealing to be honest

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by payeng

Economics:

I do understand your point - but more sales even if its at the cost of a sibling can't really hurt.

Anyways - my real interest in the Street 500 is because of another reason. The RE twin cyclinder motorcycles. The price of these machines can really play a big factor for the entry level Harley in India.

A Royal Enfield priced at 3L (rumour) can make a Harley Davidson priced at 4.5L sound very reasonable. It would make the Street 500 seem like a more natural upgrade, than the huge jump that currently exists between the RE Classic and a Street 750.

[greenhorn]

At least the recent jalopnik threads have been filled with stories of millennials who were very dissatisfied with the current HD sales staff because of the condescending behavior and their willingness to sell only the very expensive/ fully optioned models

In fact Harley bought a fun brand, buell, which was killed off because their dealers and sales staff had no idea how to sell them.

[Bhatman510]

Originally Posted by greenhorn

At least the recent jalopnik threads have been filled with stories of millennials who were very dissatisfied with the current HD sales staff because of the condescending behavior and their willingness to sell only the very expensive/ fully optioned models

In fact Harley bought a fun brand, buell, which was killed off because their dealers and sales staff had no idea how to sell them.

I have worked with alot of Buell engineers from the era with Harley and also even after with EBR (The company Hero bought and then ditched...). Alot of them felt that after Harley took over, the Harley Project Managers ended up running most of the Buell show with no clear side.

As one of those "millennials" that are in the reports who cant afford bikes...I dont want a HD. Id rather buy if it still existed a Buell or a sport tourer or and ADV bike since I prefer that style and other than the FatBob dont really like what HD has at the moment.

Plus in the US I can go on Craigslist or Cycletrader and find an awesome bike for a great price.

[Jeroen]

It is quite sad. No matter what you think of HD, it is definitely one of the iconic American brands. We will see what happens, this is a company that has re invented itself once before. I have visited their plant outside Kansas City a few times when we lived there. First time with my daughter doing the factory tour. I happened to bump into one of the manager during the tour. We got chatting about working with unions. HD is heavily unionized. I was interested to get some insights in how to deal with unions in the USA, so he invited me to come over the next week and we had some very interesting discussions.

Coming from Europe I m all for unions, but in the USA unions can completely stifle a company. In HDs case it appears more a lack of sales and lack of appealing products to a larger audience then anything else though.

Still, I would feel sorry to see this American brand disappear.

Jeroen

[Hammer & Anvil]

Its going to be crazy to look into the future. The main reason for many of my friends to ditch their Harleys in India was one - service.

The people and the quality of service was the key. In India, you don't just lose a bike owner, you lose the whole HD financial tree - the accessories, the spares, the service intervals.

While many keep giving credit to the potential of the Asian markets, you should look at the sales numbers, and always remembers that the bike is just the lure. The main 'moolah' is in the cult items, the jackets, the helmets, the boots and the whole 9 yards.

The global complaint seemed to be the service and quality, which the company has decided (that's what it looks like) and has come out with these butter smooth (relative HD term) bikes in 2018. These KTM-esque big bikes are now just like the Indian and as if someone tried to squeeze a Japanese engine onto the HD. Apparently, they have another newer family of engines coming in, almost too soon - to attract exactly the kind of people that many of you have been talking about here.

Smooth, power and all the nice stuff - and they will wipe off the older age clientele with their immense torque road-rollers away.

I tried the newer 2018 bikes and I just could not relate to them. However, the newer buyers would never know, and maybe these torquey-Japanese bikes would be a big hit.
I would not buy the new bike, but then, I spend all my money on merchandise anyway.

[GTO]

Agreed with all the posts. Harley today faces many issues = steep prices, compromised quality, a general decline in lifestyle riding (in the USA) and a cult image which is a bittersweet asset.

Maybe they should pick a leaf out of the book of the other iconic brand - JEEP? Some say that the value of 'Jeep' is more than that of its parent company FCA! And Jeep has done it with a relevant product range that is very up-to-date in terms of contemporariness. Some products are well-priced too!

[shortbread]

If things get desperate and push comes to shove, Harley can step foot on Enfield's market.

Simply relaunch the single cylinder 'B series' in a retro modern avatar. It was one of the first HD engines with an overhead valves. These were discontinued in the mid 30s. I do not remember the displacement tho.

But make them in India and take on the thriving Enfield segment. Unlike the others HD carries both street cred and the history to go with it. Plus the competition from Enfield isnt all that great whether it's in engineering or quality terms. Price it at a 10-15% premium and I am sure there will be takers for it.

A new Harley Davidson 500cc air cooled single at 1.5 lacs. The perfect stepping stone for emerging markets. I know it's way too radical for a traditional motorcycling company but what exactly does HD stand to lose. This is the day and age when Porsche sells diesel SUVs to survive!