[tushar9960]

Sorry for hijacking this thread but I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to after market exhausts. I currently have a CBR650R and the stock exhaust is way too quiet for my liking. As ethanhunt123 pointed out you need a remap if you get a full system exhaust. The problem is that on the 650R, you can't fit a slip on without some cutting and welding, which I'm not really comfortable with. The only options then are FSE's like Akrapovic and Yoshimura. The Indian spec bike is also detuned from other other markets making 88 hp instead of 94, so will a ECU tune match or exceed those numbers?

[RohanDheman]

Originally Posted by tushar9960

Sorry for hijacking this thread but I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to after market exhausts. I currently have a CBR650R and the stock exhaust is way too quiet for my liking. As ethanhunt123 pointed out you need a remap if you get a full system exhaust. The problem is that on the 650R, you can't fit a slip on without some cutting and welding, which I'm not really comfortable with. The only options then are FSE's like Akrapovic and Yoshimura. The Indian spec bike is also detuned from other other markets making 88 hp instead of 94, so will a ECU tune match or exceed those numbers?

If you get a full system Akra, you will not need any ECU tune for the 650. RachitDogra (search on the forum) is running the full system Akra on his 650F which sounds absolutely brilliant. I ride that bike very often and it is one of the sweetest sounding exhausts. Drop him a PM and he will guide be able to guide you well on this.

Rohan

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by RohanDheman

If you get a full system Akra, you will not need any ECU tune for the 650. RachitDogra (search on the forum) is running the full system Akra on his 650F which sounds absolutely brilliant. I ride that bike very often and it is one of the sweetest sounding exhausts. Drop him a PM and he will guide be able to guide you well on this.

Rohan

I know Akra claims that some of their FS exhaust dont need a remap or fuel tuner ... but i dont buy that claim. You are drastically changing the airflow in the engine and Stock ECU cannot compensate for that leading to your bike running lean. It may not cause issues in short term - but definitely not healthy in long term.

[tushar9960]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

I know Akra claims that some of their FS exhaust dont need a remap or fuel tuner ... but i dont buy that claim. You are drastically changing the airflow in the engine and Stock ECU cannot compensate for that leading to your bike running lean. It may not cause issues in short term - but definitely not healthy in long term.

That's what I thought. Even the Honda svc guy told me that the Akra exhasut is the most preferred choice for the bike from available options since some amount of r&d has gone into its development. But I still felt an ECU flash would be necessary considering the Indian version is detuned. I can't send or receive PM's yet since I'm on the newbie level. Would be great if you could connect with me on Insta or Facebook. IG - tushar9960

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

I know Akra claims that some of their FS exhaust dont need a remap or fuel tuner ...

Technically a closed loop system as the one present on most motorcycles today are designed to compensate for changes in intake/exhaust pressure variances.

The need for a piggyback/remap etc only arises when you go for a setup that changes the basic nature of the power curve, which your average plug and play system doesn't as it's purpose is to merely derestrict as advertised.

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

Technically a closed loop system as the one present on most motorcycles today are designed to compensate for changes in intake/exhaust pressure variances.

The need for a piggyback/remap etc only arises when you go for a setup that changes the basic nature of the power curve, which your average plug and play system doesn't as it's purpose is to merely derestrict as advertised.

I guess -

Lemy from revzilla

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDmXeR70EW8

RyanF9 from FortNine/Canada's Motorcycle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLI7cARFDgw

David from CanyonChasers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4l-fzpohskw

Ari Hanning from MC Garage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QCIIDSYJLc

- they all know less when it comes to how ECU's & closed loop systems works in today's superbikes.

[Vasuki]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

I guess -

Lemy from revzilla



RyanF9 from FortNine/Canada's Motorcycle



David from CanyonChasers



Ari Hanning from MC Garage

That's interesting. They're rooting for a dyno tune in bone stock machines too.

I'm not planning to go for termignoni slip on / FS for my 1260S. Should I go for dyno tune? Does it change the stock sound from exhaust. I find it loud enough, cannot afford to have more.

Also will it help in higher altitudes?

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

I guess -

- they all know less when it comes to how ECU's & closed loop systems works in today's superbikes.

All I did was share a fact.

What you could do is read up a bit about different types of exhausts and the impact they have on back pressure and power curve, that would be a good place to start.

Then rewatch the videos you've shared and observe the type of exhausts they're referring to.

On a similar note you could take a bone stock machine and remap it to run better than stock, that's simply that.

Again, the manufacturer knows best for a reason.

Edit:

It seems a random Google search could've helped you better than watching all those videos.



Though on a serious note, do read up about how motorcycles work, nothing beats good old literature.

Cheers,
A.P.

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by Vasuki

That's interesting. They're rooting for a dyno tune in bone stock machines too.

I'm not planning to go for termignoni slip on / FS for my 1260S. Should I go for dyno tune? Does it change the stock sound from exhaust. I find it loud enough, cannot afford to have more.

Also will it help in higher altitudes?

No need for dyno tune - anyways Fuel controllers dont play very well with the electronics in Multi. And no - sound wont change with a dyno tune - only with a full system exhaust.

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

All I did was share a fact.

What you could do is read up a bit about different types of exhausts and the impact they have on back pressure and power curve, that would be a good place to start.

Even better - i actually put those exhaust on my bikes rather than just reading stuff on the internet :-)

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

Again, the manufacturer knows best for a reason.

Well said - which is why Ducati gives a ECU remap key with Termi FS exhaust and Triumph gives a ECU remap with Arrows exhaust.

[Crankpin]

Even though Triumph India might be giving some maps to be used on the bike with an Arrow exhaust, does anyone know if those maps have been programmed/ dyno tested in our driving conditions?

If these maps are just borrowed from their European bikes, then I really don't see them working correctly in our environment.

[imp!]

Originally Posted by Crankpin

Even though Triumph India might be giving some maps to be used on the bike with an Arrow exhaust, does anyone know if those maps have been programmed/ dyno tested in our driving conditions?

If these maps are just borrowed from their European bikes, then I really don't see them working correctly in our environment.

I don't think Indian conditions would matter. I suspect that for slip on cans, these are probably just maps used to sort our minor fuelling quibbles. AFAIK Triumph India does not flash the map for an Arrow can.

[Crankpin]

I guess conditions like ambient temperature and fuel quality etc. are taken into consideration for making a map.
Triumph in Pune provides separate maps for those who wish to buy an Arrow slip on.

[RohanDheman]

Originally Posted by Crankpin

I guess conditions like ambient temperature and fuel quality etc. are taken into consideration for making a map.
Triumph in Pune provides separate maps for those who wish to buy an Arrow slip on.

Can confirm that Triumph in Delhi did the same for my bike. I have had the arrow from Day 1 and at the time of delivery they connected the laptop to the bike to show that they had in fact flashed the Arrow map.

Rohan

[bigron]

You don't need a custom map for slip ons. They are purely for weight saving, looks and noise. There are no noticeable gains if any to be had with slip ons and any restrictions in the exhaust system happen before the end cans.
All Triumph is doing is adding a soft generic map for arrow on all bikes supporting Arrow. Makes no sense but I guess it is what it is.

[RohanDheman]

Originally Posted by bigron

You don't need a custom map for slip ons. They are purely for weight saving, looks and noise. There are no noticeable gains if any to be had with slip ons and any restrictions in the exhaust system happen before the end cans.
All Triumph is doing is adding a soft generic map for arrow on all bikes supporting Arrow. Makes no sense but I guess it is what it is.

The arrow on this one is mainly for weight saving! Looks very ordinary and nothing special and is only very very marginally louder. I have 3 other friends with RS - 1 on arrow, 1 stock and 1 on Scorpion (changed from Arrow). The arrow and stock are almost absolutely similar in sound and the Scorpion is in a different league.

Truth be told, i only got the arrow because i got it with the bike as a part of a year end deal in 2017. There is no way i am putting my own money for a homologated slip on! I will eventually end up getting the non-homologated Akrapovic slip on for my RS.