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Old 13th November 2017, 16:25   #136
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Default re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine. EDIT : Launched

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Looks like I am only one who's still wondering what's special with this bike!! I don't find anything great about the looks, and everytime I see the interceptor, it reminds me of the Yamaha rx100. And wouldn't the windblast be too high for this to be doing any high speeds which this may be capable of?

Plus, I again don't have any special tuck for the brand. A colleague of mine bought a brand new classic 350 1-2 months back - I have already heard the bike being broken down 3-4 times.
My friend who owns a 2 yr. old Thunderbird 350 had to get his front shock absorbers replaced after running it over a minor pothole at normal speed. And that's only the latest problem!
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Old 13th November 2017, 16:42   #137
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Default re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine. EDIT : Launched

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If one can cruise around 120KMPH easily without stretching the engine, that is more than enough.
Its not just how easy and relaxed the engine is at 120kmph speed but a combination of many factors which is essential for touring such as man-machine ergonomics & sitting posture with respect to seat, handle bar and footpeg geometry, wind protection, suspension, ability and provision to carry luggage, tank range, etc. A few of them misaligned and its gets tough on the highway. For Eg, I feel supremely comfortable on my versys but feel uncomfortable on my bonnie on the same 200km stretch. Both bikes are well capable of maintaining 120kmph but bonnie is slightly sporty posture with lean-in and rear set footpegs and conbined with lack of wind protection, gets uncomfortable after a while in touring comparison with versys. Duke 390 is equally capable of those speeds but try doing bangalore kudremukh and each bone in the body will be rattled, when bad roads present themselves. Writing all this based on personal experiences with those same motorcycles.

Interceptor with some mods such as a good windscreen, handlebar riser, and luggage frame seems a good proposition for touring.

Quote:
I think there are two sets of people and you are confused with them both. First set says it should be 5L mark and I doubt whether they owned an RE. Second set says it should be around 3.5L and again stands up RE when people say it unreliable. I also own RE and I feel it is far-fetched when you say "Broke Down REs is common sight" in Bangalore
we are speculating and guesstimating value of the product based on our experience and understanding of what it brings to the table. Not sure about others but as per my understanding, about a lakh over CGT 535 should be sweet spot and fair value, both for manufacturer and rider. Lets Hope RE prices it well to keep us all happy.

As for reliability, if your RE is running trouble free its a manufacturing defect.

Last edited by nasirkaka : 13th November 2017 at 16:45.
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Old 13th November 2017, 18:27   #138
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Default re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine. EDIT : Launched

I watched the live stream of the launch of the 2 motorcycles and I will admit, Royal Enfield has me excited about what these bikes promise to bring. The combination of styling that its competition in the same price range can only dream of, adequate power (for A2 and Indian conditions) and with the launch of the bikes in Europe, the promise of build quality, could spell global success for RE.


For the first couple of hours after the launch, Whatsapp was abuzz with comments on the RE bikes. First came grudging admission by many RE cynics and critics alike that the bikes looked good. Mirroring the initial discussions on this thread, a lot of the initial Whatsapp messages were about reliability and parts falling off. Then came the discussions about pricing with numbers ranging from the ludicrous to hilarious being thrown around. I saw so many people saying if RE prices this above 4 lacs, I will go buy a Triumph. The moment I pointed out that the costs associated with the service experience of a Bonnie would be many times more than a RE (no hard figures on how much it will cost to service a RE but its a fair assumption), such statements came to a grinding halt. Love them or hate them, RE had the world talking about the two 650s and other companies can only dream of such hype.


So where will the sales numbers in India come from?
1. The middle class working professional (say in his early to mid 30s) who can afford an expensive RE and would love the lower service costs. 10 years ago, the Indian middle class would never have dared to dream this big but times have changed.
2. More experienced riders who might be 'downgrading' from something more powerful and expensive to maintain.
3. Tourers who dont really find the D390 to be the best mile muncher but want something more powerful than the CBR250 or the Mojo or the Royal Enfields.
4. Born again bikers in their 40s to 60s who would be doing well enough professionally to be able to easily afford the Interceptor 650 without the home minister throwing a fit. It would stand out enough from the sea of C350s that their juniors / subordinates would own.


Also, from what I could gauge, RE in India may not really get a lot of young buyers of the Classic 350s to cross shop to the Interceptor / GT 650 any time soon. The 500s by themselves hardly see any real sales numbers from this audience. So RE, in India, will open up a completely new set of buyers without cannibalizing numbers from the sales juggernaut that is their 350 range.
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Old 13th November 2017, 19:45   #139
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Default re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine. EDIT : Launched

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Originally Posted by nasirkaka View Post
Its not just how easy and relaxed the engine is at 120kmph speed but a combination of many factors which is essential for touring such as man-machine ergonomics & sitting posture with respect to seat, handle bar and footpeg geometry, wind protection, suspension, ability and provision to carry luggage, tank range, etc.
I made the comment about the speed of the engine w.r.t to a post mentioning how much power is sufficient for a 2-wheeler.

Quote:
we are speculating and guesstimating value of the product based on our experience and understanding of what it brings to the table. Not sure about others but as per my understanding, about a lakh over CGT 535 should be sweet spot and fair value, both for manufacturer and rider. Lets Hope RE prices it well to keep us all happy.
Yes 3.25 Lakhs for a CGT 535 sound ok to me. To be honest, the new engine doesnt seem to be ground breaking and all. So why would they sell at a price for which I can buy 2 CGT 535s and have some change too.

Quote:
As for reliability, if your RE is running trouble free its a manufacturing defect.
I already posted the issues I faced with my RE, and to repeat in 4&1/2 years and 45K KMs it had broken down once. It was a fuse failure and I couldn't identify a blown fuse . There were few leakage issues too. I have done 1.5K trip on the Kudremukh ghat from Bangalore, 1.2K trip in Andhra and quite a few number of trips between Bangalore - Chennai, Bangalore - Pondicherry, etc., it never broke down. My cousin who owns a TB500 (accompanied me in the trips) never faced any issues. My cousin owns a TB350 and is using the same in Wayanad and no complains from him also.

So my point is I feel most (i reiterate most not all) of the reliability issues raised by the members here are based someone else's experience

P.S: The engines are UCE.

Last edited by jaganpec2002 : 13th November 2017 at 19:51.
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Old 13th November 2017, 20:46   #140
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Default re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine. EDIT : Launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob UK View Post
Pros:
...
Cons:
...
Spark plug position doesn't figure at all?

Regards
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Old 14th November 2017, 03:23   #141
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Default re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine. EDIT : Launched

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Spark plug position doesn't figure at all?

Regards
Sutripta
I guess it complicates that to an extent, as I understand it, you ideally want the plug centralised to minmise the distance between between the spark and the fuel/air furthest from it, but I guess you can angle the plug and offset the cam slightly to achieve that.
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Old 14th November 2017, 11:59   #142
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Default re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine. EDIT : Launched

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Originally Posted by jaganpec2002 View Post
I made the comment about the speed of the engine w.r.t to a post mentioning how much power is sufficient for a 2-wheeler.
A 60 bhp car can do 120 kmph all day long. Why are we buying everything else?
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Old 14th November 2017, 15:03   #143
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Default re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine. EDIT : Launched

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So my point is I feel most (i reiterate most not all) of the reliability issues raised by the members here are based someone else's experience
Its the brand equity i guess. Over years, REs have earned the tag of 'unreliable' like Honda is earned 'reliable'. This is based on collective general perception of a brand over a long time. Also true is the fact that in India, we love REs, hate REs but cannot ignore it. E media and Social media has played its own part in branding REs as non-reliable. One post on FB of an issue with the bike and everyone pounces with their own experience & brand bashing.

Some of us including myself, also believe that REs prior to 90s were more reliable and easy to live with. Its was not everyone bike with the sifter on the right and not everyone could kickstart it just like any other bike. In essence the bike was so basic and simple that almost all the issues could be sorted with a bit of knowledge, or by our friendly neighborhood mechanic. With AVLs and UCEs, the bikes got a bit more complicated and not everyone could attend to it like in olden days.

Let me give a brief example. I booked and got one of the very first batch teal blue classic 500 in Bangalore. Was riding with a group of 17 bullet riders for a days ride. On the way back, my C5 had some earthing issues, fuse blew twice and was replaced with the spares provided. third time, the entire wiring harness caught fire and was burnt. None of the riders in the group, many very experienced, could do anything. If its was old CI engine, we would have found some jugaad to ride it back to Bangalore, but in this case the bike was lifted and towed back to service center. And this is just the beginning, there was no end to issues i had later. Not just me, a lot of my riding buddies as well faced multiple issues which i dont want to expand on. Am sure over years, REs must have improved and their bike would be more reliable now, but the tag of 'unreliable' lingers and may be difficult to shake. And then comes another new product from them - the mighty Himalayan, and does more damage to the brand image. Seriously hope RE 650 twins are well sorted to begin with, instead of making customers as guinea pigs.
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Old 14th November 2017, 16:44   #144
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Default re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine. EDIT : Launched

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Originally Posted by Vignesh_N/A View Post
A 60 bhp car can do 120 kmph all day long. Why are we buying everything else?
Ha Ha. I meant the expectation I have with this new RE. I own Classic 500 and it is 90-100 vehicle and always felt I needed more power on highways. I don't have high expectations for this engine. Just a vibration free cruising at 120KMPH will do for me.
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Old 14th November 2017, 17:57   #145
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Default re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine. EDIT : Launched

With the launch of these motorcycles, RE makes a value proposition to many across the globe. It is an exciting news nonetheless, but we know that RE takes their time to refine a new offering. I was excited to see the D400 chasing CGT 650 at those speeds, but having ridden a 2016 CGT, I know how bad the vibrations are at triple-digit speeds. Let's hope they refine these motorcycles and bring some more options for Indian buyers.
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Old 14th November 2017, 18:08   #146
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Default re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine. EDIT : Launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaganpec2002 View Post
Ha Ha. I meant the expectation I have with this new RE. I own Classic 500 and it is 90-100 vehicle and always felt I needed more power on highways. I don't have high expectations for this engine. Just a vibration free cruising at 120KMPH will do for me.
That is precisely my expectation too, and this is also why I have not bought the Classic 500, and have been waiting patiently for the last 2 years for an improved Royal Enfield.

I really do not care if the power output is on the lower side, or how many cam shafts are there, or what technological patents the new engine comes with, or even what the top speed is (it is pointless on a naked bike anyway!)

All I want is to have a handsome looking and nice sounding motorcycle, that is affordable to own and maintain that can cruise along happily between 100 and 120 kmph, and feel stress free while doing so. If I can get an efficiency of close to 30 kmpl, it would be an added bonus I stress on the affordable maintenance, as most of the CBU and CKD options that we have available today are not light on the pocket after to get it inside your garage.
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Old 14th November 2017, 19:45   #147
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Default re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine. EDIT : Launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob UK View Post
I guess it complicates that to an extent, as I understand it, you ideally want the plug centralised to minmise the distance between between the spark and the fuel/air furthest from it, but I guess you can angle the plug and offset the cam slightly to achieve that.
I'm sure such an animal exists somewhere, but I have not seen one. And it goes contrary to normal wisdom.

One of the most important things to keep in mind in today's engines is emissions. As emission norms are tightened, the central spark plug (and central injector in case of diesels) starts becoming more and more important. Esp.for larger bores.

This central spark plug is far easier to accommodate in a 3 or 4 valve head. (A central spark plug in a 2 valve head, it would make the valves far too small).

Also one needs access to the plugs from outside without having to dismantle half the head. A single central camshaft obstructs this access. Thus DOHC.

Hence the current popularity of the 4V/ DOHC setup. Even in engines destined for plebeian transport. (Encouraged by marketers, fanboys and proud owners would like to believe that their 4V/ DOHC setup traces its lineage to some exotic racing special. Not so).

In this light I find it puzzling that a company would design an clean sheet engine in 2016/7, meant to take the company into the future, go to the expense of a 4V head, and then have a SOHC.

Even though we know nothing of (bike) engine designs, I hope you will not come down too hard on us while we continue our puzzled head scratching, and express it.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 14th November 2017, 19:47   #148
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Default re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine. EDIT : Launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaganpec2002 View Post
Just a vibration free cruising at 120KMPH will do for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pratzgh1 View Post
but having ridden a 2016 CGT, I know how bad the vibrations are at triple-digit speeds. Let's hope they refine these motorcycles and bring some more options for Indian buyers.
I somehow have always believed and felt that the more number of cylinders the smoother the bike is. Any single cylinder higher capacity bike will always tend to vibrate. In the 650 RE case I am pretty sure that as far as the vibrations go and if compared to the 350 / 500 versions these new twin cylinder bikes should give a smoother ride.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aravind.anand View Post
That is precisely my expectation too, and this is also why I have not bought the Classic 500, and have been waiting patiently for the last 2 years for an improved Royal Enfield.

All I want is to have a handsome looking and nice sounding motorcycle, that is affordable to own and maintain that can cruise along happily between 100 and 120 kmph, and feel stress free while doing so. If I can get an efficiency of close to 30 kmpl, it would be an added bonus I stress on the affordable maintenance, as most of the CBU and CKD options that we have available today are not light on the pocket after to get it inside your garage.

In my observation, the 500 RE is much smoother than the 350's. Not that the 350 is a bad bike, its great on its own merits but the 500 is simply much more smoother to ride than the 350.

I agree with your affordable part as the RE sold out of India are much expensive than what we get here. So we will get the price advantage.

I am simply in awe of RE with so much success and earning love from the buyers, but I fail to understand why just that they are not concentrating on the quality control aspect.
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Old 14th November 2017, 21:58   #149
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Default re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine. EDIT : Launched

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
I'm sure such an animal exists somewhere, but I have not seen one. And it goes contrary to normal wisdom.

One of the most important things to keep in mind in today's engines is emissions. As emission norms are tightened, the central spark plug (and central injector in case of diesels) starts becoming more and more important. Esp.for larger bores.

This central spark plug is far easier to accommodate in a 3 or 4 valve head. (A central spark plug in a 2 valve head, it would make the valves far too small).

Also one needs access to the plugs from outside without having to dismantle half the head. A single central camshaft obstructs this access. Thus DOHC.

Hence the current popularity of the 4V/ DOHC setup. Even in engines destined for plebeian transport. (Encouraged by marketers, fanboys and proud owners would like to believe that their 4V/ DOHC setup traces its lineage to some exotic racing special. Not so).

In this light I find it puzzling that a company would design an clean sheet engine in 2016/7, meant to take the company into the future, go to the expense of a 4V head, and then have a SOHC.

Even though we know nothing of (bike) engine designs, I hope you will not come down too hard on us while we continue our puzzled head scratching, and express it.

Regards
Sutripta
The Royal Enfield Interceptor & Continental 650. EDIT: Launched @ Rs 2.50 - 2.65 lakhs-2010hondavfr1200f1237ccv4enginephoto365151s1280x782.jpg

Here is a top down view of the cylinder head for the 2009 onwards ﹰHonda VFR 1200, a highly advanced design when it was launched as the world's first dual clutch motorcycle.

As you can see it has 4 valves per cylinder, with the SOHC offset to one side allowing a central spark plug, as I described would be one way to achieve optimal placement.

This engine produces 137bhp per litre in sports touring trim whilst meeting the latest Euro emission requirements. Honda have repeated the 4 valve SOHC design on the recent CRF1000L Africa twin and Triumph went from DOHC to SOHC on the new Bonneville.

You may find this hard to understand - I simply accept that it works!

Last edited by .anshuman : 15th November 2017 at 08:39. Reason: Attachment fixed. Thanks
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Old 15th November 2017, 05:45   #150
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Default re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine. EDIT : Launched

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Originally Posted by ashwin1224 View Post
Sorry for going OT but purely out of curiosity, which bike was this? And 44kmph average speed is completely understandable on that road, its filled with speed breakers!

I seriously don't get the debate for more power. I don't think any owner of a large superbike uses all of its power. Heck, even the 44hp duke is a handful and full throttle still feels as scary as that on 80hp bike. 47hp is enough for all intents and purposes.

The only thing worthy of a debate is how reliable these new bikes will be, but that cannot be argued until these bikes come to the showrooms.
Thats precisely the point I am making. What use is a 100+ bhp and racing suspension, when due road conditions your superbike averages 44kmph? Besides that race stiff suspension pummels your rearside making 50+ km riding difficult. Its like wearing 6 inch heels, may look uber cool but ask the lady who walks in them for a day
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