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Old 23rd September 2019, 17:35   #46
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Re: KTM 790 Duke - Bikes start reaching dealerships, now launched @ 8.63L

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Originally Posted by anshumandun View Post
The 790, on the other hand, is much more costly in India than the rest of the world. If they can start manufacturing the 790 in India and price it aggressively, they can have another winner at hand. Specially with the 790 adventure versions, they can really shake up the competition. The Tiger has become very costly and the GS range is also too expensive. Hopefully, KTM has some plans of manufacturing the new gen rumoured 890 in India.
Same thoughts.
Since they're only bringing 100 of these, which will be CKD, I hope they plan to manufacture the 890 here. Sales of these 790 will also be a study for them to analyse the market more closely and understand where they need to put their heads when they start making the 890s in India.
Hope this is their plan and I'm right about this!

Last edited by aah78 : 23rd September 2019 at 18:24. Reason: Quote trimmed.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 19:06   #47
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Re: KTM 790 Duke - Bikes start reaching dealerships, now launched @ 8.63L

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Originally Posted by BikerSuz View Post
Same thoughts.
Since they're only bringing 100 of these, which will be CKD, I hope they plan to manufacture the 890 here. Sales of these 790 will also be a study for them to analyse the market more closely and understand where they need to put their heads when they start making the 890s in India.
Hope this is their plan and I'm right about this!
No chance of that happening IMHO.

Chinese superbike market is developing at a much faster rate, and if KTM needs a new production base for the 890 - makes more sense to do it there. They had even mentioned in a recent interview that Chinese market is speculated to match Europe in the near future for middle weight motorcycles.

In India - even a locally manufactured 890 might do only a couple of hundred units a month. The best we can hope is CKD.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 19:51   #48
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Re: KTM 790 Duke - Bikes start reaching dealerships, now launched @ 8.63L

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
No chance of that happening IMHO.

In India - even a locally manufactured 890 might do only a couple of hundred units a month. The best we can hope is CKD.
I really dont think KTM will manage to sell a few hundred of these every month. Not at the price it will be available even if locally produced.

EICMA in November is when we should get to know everything about the new 890 Duke.

I think KTM is aware that at the price it plans to sell the 890, the volumes that India will generate would hardly justify shifting production here.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 20:29   #49
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There are rumours that KTM will launch BS6 version of the same 790 in the early months of 2020 at a premium of around 50k on the current price.
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Old 24th September 2019, 07:19   #50
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Re: KTM 790 Duke - Bikes start reaching dealerships, now launched @ 8.63L

The 890 is going to be a rebored, heavier 790 for Euro 5 emissions. The larger replacement will come with a bump in power to ensure the power to weight ration for the 790 and 890 are the same.
Not sure if it makes sense waiting for BS6 if you can get a decent deal on a Street Triple or 790 today....
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Old 24th September 2019, 11:31   #51
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Re: KTM 790 Duke - Bikes start reaching dealerships, now launched @ 8.63L

I feel its way overpriced and for the package, on road 8.65 would be justified, not ex showroom! Competition is 3 and 4 cylinder bikes with better power and finesse that itself should make it less desirable. What about adjustable suspension? Just because they have added few gizmos does't justify the cost. 890 is around the corner- is another major factor to consider, this will shed price like crazy once 890 hits the market. They made the cardinal mistake of getting carried over and comparing /pitching the bike to the Striple, which is already overpriced in India. Good thing is they just have 100 pieces, should get sold in couple of months maybe.
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Old 24th September 2019, 12:57   #52
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Re: KTM 790 Duke - Bikes start reaching dealerships, now launched @ 8.63L

KTM seems to be a victim of it's own super aggressive pricing from the past. We all expect them to undercut the competition while providing more features and resetting the market. That's what they did with the original Duke 390.

I think the pricing is fine for what it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
In India - even a locally manufactured 890 might do only a couple of hundred units a month. The best we can hope is CKD.
I would say they would do a couple of hundred a year even if we get bargain basement pricing.

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There are rumours that KTM will launch BS6 version of the same 790 in the early months of 2020 at a premium of around 50k on the current price.
Unlikely. There is no BS6 version of the 790. The next step is the 890. To test the waters and sell some existing stocks, KTM has brought in these 100 units that have to sell before the onset of BS6.
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Old 24th September 2019, 16:19   #53
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Re: KTM 790 Duke - Bikes start reaching dealerships, now launched @ 8.63L

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
I feel its way overpriced and for the package, on road 8.65 would be justified, not ex showroom! Competition is 3 and 4 cylinder bikes with better power and finesse that itself should make it less desirable. What about adjustable suspension? Just because they have added few gizmos does't justify the cost. 890 is around the corner- is another major factor to consider, this will shed price like crazy once 890 hits the market. They made the cardinal mistake of getting carried over and comparing /pitching the bike to the Striple, which is already overpriced in India. Good thing is they just have 100 pieces, should get sold in couple of months maybe.

Since when have no of cylinders been a measure of how good a bike or its performance is ? The Ducatis are all twins too , aren't they? It only works to please first time big bike buyers who care more about the sound than how it goes.


As for the power, all bikes in the middle weight naked segment, but the striples weigh a whole lot more than the duke 790, so that tiny bit more power eventually translates to an inferior real world performance.

Also amongst the mid weight nakeds the only bike to offer adjustable suspension is the Striple RS which is a good 3 lakh more.

It cant be compared to the Z900 , which is super basic and offers almost no electronics ,is super duper heavy and is a very poor handler too, the GSX S 750 is heavy too and fairly basic as well. Heck even the Ducati Monster 821 is priced at about 13 on road.

It can only be justifiably compared to the Street Triple and the MT 09 for what they offer and real world usability and its priced lower than both those bikes. While the RS clearly trumps it on a lot of fronts the MT 09 not so much.

One can't and shouldn't expect all Katooms to be priced like they priced the 390 here, globally KTMs are considered exotics and mostly not even compared to the Japs for that reason alone, unlike here in india where the perceived "oomph" has gone down due to the economical pricing inspite of offering performance and equipment substantially better than any of the competitors.
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Old 24th September 2019, 16:53   #54
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Re: KTM 790 Duke - Bikes start reaching dealerships, now launched @ 8.63L

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Originally Posted by noo.b View Post
Since when have no of cylinders been a measure of how good a bike or its performance is ? The Ducatis are all twins too , aren't they? It only works to please first time big bike buyers who care more about the sound than how it goes.
A 2 cylinder will not have the refinement or the power delivery flexibility that a 4 or 3 cylinder set up the current competition offers. And not that I care much for sound, whatever said and done, they sound crappy autorickshawish also (2 cylinder)...

Quote:
As for the power, all bikes in the middle weight naked segment, but the striples weigh a whole lot more than the duke 790, so that tiny bit more power eventually translates to an inferior real world performance.
It is not just about the weight, infact the light weight has its on set of issues. And if you are really debating about the advantage do check out foreign comparison reviews which cover pro's and con's of these bikes.

Quote:
Also amongst the mid weight nakeds the only bike to offer adjustable suspension is the Striple RS which is a good 3 lakh more.
Agree and hence I mentioned it as overpriced too.

Quote:
It cant be compared to the Z900 , which is super basic and offers almost no electronics ,is super duper heavy and is a very poor handler too, the GSX S 750 is heavy too and fairly basic as well. Heck even the Ducati Monster 821 is priced at about 13 on road.
I never said they are priced reasonably, none of the cars and bikes are with our great taxation and customs tariffs, all these luxury items have moved way out of reasonable pricing. Ducati monster at 13 lakhs is in the insane spectrum, people just fall for the D name for that bike.

Quote:
One can't and shouldn't expect all Katooms to be priced like they priced the 390 here, globally KTMs are considered exotics and mostly not even compared to the Japs for that reason alone, unlike here in india where the perceived "oomph" has gone down due to the economical pricing inspite of offering performance and equipment substantially better than any of the competitors.
KTM's are exotic, offer superb fun (usually handling and weight advantage) that makes them so. BUT they definitely are NOT that great when it comes to quality bits, here in India doubly so. Only time will tell how the CKD kits fair in the long run. So for me as a buyer who retains bikes for longer period of time there are different priorities.

ps: I was just stating my opinion, when I bought the street triple I was not convinced when they bumped the pricing suddenly by 50k. From that the current gen I feel is grossly overpriced. So if I were to put money, I definitely would not pay so much. My bigger concern from this fiasco by KTM is the future launches, hope they are not going to go this "premium" pricing mode for bikes like 390 and 790 Adventures. Coz those are definitely under my purchase radar for bikes
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Old 24th September 2019, 18:47   #55
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Re: KTM 790 Duke - Bikes start reaching dealerships, now launched @ 8.63L

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Originally Posted by noo.b View Post
It cant be compared to the Z900 , which is super basic and offers almost no electronics ,is super duper heavy and is a very poor handler too, the GSX S 750 is heavy too and fairly basic as well.
You raise some valid points, however I shall choose to respond to this particular one based on my experience riding the S750 (as an owner) & the Z900 (ridden on test-rides).

The weight difference of the Street Triple which is touted as a big advantage is exaggerated in my opinion. For regular-joe riding on the street I don't find the lower weight to be much of an advantage. In fact, at higher then average highway speeds with cross-winds, the added weight of the inline-4 bikes which you have mentioned, helps to keep the bike stable and gives a planted feel.

Also, one needs experience to really ride the bike in a manner which results in the bike's potential being exploited. Speaking for myself, I'm a sedate rider. I ride the bike without taking any risks whatsoever, and in doing so am not utilizing more than 5% of the bike's potential. So if I invest an additional 2-3 lacs in bikes like the STriple S/RS or the Duke 790 thinking of the reduced kerb weight as a defining characteristic, it may be a misplaced notion in the first place.

While maneuvering the bike out in the parking lot or on road shoulders is where the STriple will outshine other bikes due to the lower weight, however such occasions are a fraction of the time spent riding and cannot be the sole reason to consider the bike.

On the track perhaps the STriple's lower weight would become an advantage. So this is where a track-day-inclined buyer placing emphasis on the weight difference, is justified.

I'm not so certain that the Z900 can be called out as a poor handler, not sure if you've got a chance to ride the bike. I found it to be pretty agile in side-to-side transitions. And to my surprise, the S750 is even more agile than the Z900. The chassis geometry, mass-centralization, tire size/width/grip and suspension tuning is what makes a bike a good/bad handler, not just the kerb weight number on paper.

You'd be surprised to know that a Multistrada 1260 or a BMW R1200GS can be thrown into corners with reckless abandon and both are two-wheeled elephants, if you think of the kerb weight in isolation. For that matter, I've seen folks ride the Hayabusa like it was a bicycle.

Last edited by GoBlue : 24th September 2019 at 18:54.
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Old 24th September 2019, 18:59   #56
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Re: KTM 790 Duke - Bikes start reaching dealerships, now launched @ 8.63L

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Originally Posted by noo.b View Post
It cant be compared to the Z900 , which is super basic and offers almost no electronics ,is super duper heavy and is a very poor handler too, the GSX S 750 is heavy too and fairly basic as well.
Super basic in electronics, but one that has the got the basics right - can't be called a poor handler by any stretch of imagination. Are we riding electronics or mechanicals these days?

Here's a recent comparo -


Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 24th September 2019 at 19:03.
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Old 24th September 2019, 20:00   #57
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Re: KTM 790 Duke - Bikes start reaching dealerships, now launched @ 8.63L

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
A 2 cylinder will not have the refinement or the power delivery flexibility that a 4 or 3 cylinder set up the current competition offers. And not that I care much for sound, whatever said and done, they sound crappy autorickshawish also (2 cylinder)...
I agree, but what I said was about the performance bit. Twins are genrally stronger in the lower and mid RPMs and for most users thats where the 90% of their riding happens. The torque figures are also typically higher on twins.This is where my point was coming from, thats all

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBlue View Post
You raise some valid points, however I shall choose to respond to this particular one based on my experience riding the S750 (as an owner) & the Z900 (ridden on test-rides).

I'm not so certain that the Z900 can be called out as a poor handler, not sure if you've got a chance to ride the bike. I found it to be pretty agile in side-to-side transitions. And to my surprise, the S750 is even more agile than the Z900. The chassis geometry, mass-centralization, tire size/width/grip and suspension tuning is what makes a bike a good/bad handler, not just the kerb weight number on paper.
I have ridden the z 900 a fair bit amongst other mid weights and I am someone who corners hard , does the odd track day every now and then and in general not a sedate rider at all. I have found that the rider triangle of the z900 , with its low seat height and high bars, and its weight severely limits my corner speeds and the brakes aren't great either. In fact i prefer the older z800 to the z900. As for the gsxs750 i actually really liked the way that bike handles inspite of the weight. Its a brilliant handling bike and the only thing that kept me away from buying it recently was the fact that it isn't crazy enough,and a bit too sorted for my kind of riding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Super basic in electronics, but one that has the got the basics right - can't be called a poor handler by any stretch of imagination. Are we riding electronics or mechanicals these days?

Here's a recent comparo -
I really dont think its anywhere near getting things right, you have got to ride it back to back with the striple RS or even the S really hard to know that the Z is pretty meh.

Dont get me wrong mate.. I do like the bikes to be free of electronics myself but the Z to me is just something you can go crazy fast on...albeit in a straight line.

Whenever I ride bigger bikes I make a point to switch to the track mode , but having a safety net for people who might want it is great too

Last edited by Jaggu : 24th September 2019 at 21:52. Reason: Removing youtube quote. Affects readability. Thanks
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Old 24th September 2019, 21:58   #58
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Re: KTM 790 Duke - Bikes start reaching dealerships, now launched @ 8.63L

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Originally Posted by noo.b View Post
I agree, but what I said was about the performance bit. Twins are genrally stronger in the lower and mid RPMs and for most users thats where the 90% of their riding happens. The torque figures are also typically higher on twins.This is where my point was coming from, thats all
Completely agree. But preferences vary from person to person, for me I love that rush at top end also, though I get to do it max in first two gears in India From my use perspective, I enjoy the smooth motors. When I had the Striple, exchanged it with Z800 of a friends while on a long trip and though the seat was painful, handling was either zero or only counter steer, I loved that motor. It was like a smooth electric motor compared to my grunting triple engine.
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Old 25th September 2019, 10:02   #59
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Re: KTM 790 Duke - Bikes start reaching dealerships, now launched @ 8.63L

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Originally Posted by noo.b View Post
Since when have no of cylinders been a measure of how good a bike or its performance is ? The Ducatis are all twins too , aren't they? It only works to please first time big bike buyers who care more about the sound than how it goes.
Nope mate, not all Ducati's are twins. They do offer a 4 cylinder V4 Desmodromic engine.

Besides purpose defines whether no of cylinders are a measure of how good a bike or its performance is, else we would still be seeing MotoGP, Isle of Man TT, Northwest 200 bikes with single cylinder engines of the yore. Or even better Soichiro Honda would've never made an inline 4 Honda CB750 if its wasn't any better than single and twin cylinders during its era. There were 4 cylinder bikes offered by other manufacturers prior to Honda CB750 but it was Honda who popularized 4 cylinder bikes and the rest is history. The fact is manufacturers push the boundaries of their engines to its limit during such racing events and some of these features trickle down to their production models. An inline 4 would always be way smoother than a 2/3 cylinder bike in any configuration at any speed.

Last edited by navin_v8 : 25th September 2019 at 10:04.
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Old 30th September 2019, 22:35   #60
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Re: KTM 790 Duke - Bikes start reaching dealerships, now launched @ 8.63L

Accessories list, thanks to ACI -

KTM 790 Duke - Bikes start reaching dealerships, now launched @ 8.63L-0_0_0_0_70_http___cdni.autocarindia.com_news_ktmduke790powerpartslist.jpg
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