[VellVector]

Originally Posted by livetodrive

Any idea why Indian touring bikes could not find a spot in the list ? Scout Sixtyr and HD Fatbob prices might be similar right (or cheaper )?

When it launched in India, Indian bikes had a very high entry price which is a memory still associated with the brand.

However now, the bigger issue is the almost non-existent dealer and sales network. No one wants a touring bike that can be only serviced in 2-3 cities in the whole country.

Of course brand recognition probably also plays a role especially to the entry-level buyer.

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

I suspect Ducati will occupy one out of the bottom two places for 2019. If I had to bet my money, it would fall below Honda.

Interesting ... so you think Ducati would have sold lesser bikes than the likes of MV, Indian, Aprillia, Yamaha, CFMoto, Moto Guzzi & Norton leave alone Honda ?

From what I know - Ducati sells around 400-500 bikes a year in India per year - a fact which i can easily believe considering the number of bikes in the local DOC chapter as well as talking to the local dealer - which makes it way above BMW's SBK range (which really only sells GSA's in any number in India besides a handful of S1000RR's) & Honda - and close to Suzuki. Ducati's bike are at the premium end of pricing in almost every segment - and arent supposed to be mass market offerings.

From what I see - the biggest challenge is going to be BS6 transition post April for Ducati as well as lots of other SBK guys as their existing models will not be BS6 ready - they already have an extension of 1 year in europe to move to Euro5 for existing models. So expect to see a lot of models disappearing from the showrooms for a year.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

From what i see - the biggest challenge is going to be BS6 transition post April for Ducati as well as lots of other SBK guys as their existing models will not be BS6 ready - they already have an extension of 1 year in europe to move to Euro5 for existing models.

A good opportunity for one of the brands to capture more market share.

Kawasaki, I believe is the only one to launch BS6 models til now. Hope to see some more action before April.

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

Interesting ... so you think Ducati would have sold lesser bikes than the likes of MV, Indian, Aprillia, Yamaha, CFMoto, Moto Guzzi & Norton leave alone Honda ?

This thread does not and to be honest, cannot cater to those super niche manufacturers that sell a handful of bikes per year for analysis of sales figures. We have no reasonably accurate sources for sales figures from these manufacturers (press releases etc) and they dont report numbers to SIAM, or else the numbers would have been picked up by AutoPunditz. So what can we go on?

Even last year, CD didnt have official sources of BMW or Ducati numbers but from press releases, the forum was able to piece together what sales BMW did. We can only work with what official numbers we have.

Or are you saying, friendly mod CD's thread is incorrect since it doesnt have so many niche manufacturers listed in it

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

From what i know - Ducati sells around 400-500 bikes a year in India per year - a fact which i can easily believe considering the number of bikes in the local DOC chapter as well as talking to the local dealer - which makes it way above BMW's SBK range (which really only sells GSA's in any number in India besides a handful of S1000RR's) & Honda - and close to Suzuki. Ducati's bike are at the premium end of pricing in almost every segment - and arent supposed to be mass market offerings.

I dont doubt your sources but I tried searching for some news articles reporting Ducatis sales performance in India before posting earlier in the evening. I couldnt find anything, I do wish they reported their numbers. I dont see why they dont. If they were doing 500 bikes a year, that certainly is something to boast about, especially in a market like India that fell by 17%.

Or maybe, with such sales successes, they dont want us super sleuths to know that they have become mass market offerings in India

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Or are you saying, friendly mod CD's thread is incorrect since it doesnt have so many niche manufacturers listed in it

Stop instigating the friendly mod against me

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

I dont doubt your sources but I tried searching for some news articles reporting Ducatis sales performance in India before posting earlier in the evening. I couldnt find anything, I do wish they reported their numbers. I dont see why they dont. If they were doing 500 bikes a year, that certainly is something to boast about, especially in a market like India that fell by 17%.

Or maybe, with such sales successes, they dont want us super sleuths to know that they have become mass market offerings in India

Some news articles referencing 2016 and 2017 sales - unless Ducati had a huge meltdown in India sales (highly unlikely going by the growing number of Ducati’s in TBHP itself ) - the figure of 400-500 is on the conservative side.

https://m.economictimes.com/ducati-g...w/64550806.cms

https://auto.economictimes.indiatime...2-yrs/57035213

[RodRowdyBiker]

Great job by Team Green. They knocked it out of the park with their pricing and their Thailand plant. However, for 2020 all the models get a 10%-15% increase in price, but the improvements are worth it as well. I wonder how Harley managed to sell so many Street 750/Rod! I thought they were sub par at best.

[RiderZone]

Originally Posted by Vasuki

I believe you could also consider the RE Twins.

Probably the RE 650 twins were not included in here because they would've made the comparison to previous years almost meaningless, their numbers are just ridiculous.

Based on Autopunditz data, which is approximate because I couldn't find an entry for November, total of RE 650 twins sales in 2019 was 20331.

[Nilesh5417]

So the adventure category is not really setting the sales charts on fire as most are expecting? Is it cause there is nothing south of 8lacs ex that appeals except baby GS?

[petrolhead_neel]

Originally Posted by Nilesh5417

So the adventure category is not really setting the sales charts on fire as most are expecting? Is it cause there is nothing south of 8lacs ex that appeals except baby GS?

The 650cc variants of the Versys and the V-Strom are doing pretty well! But you're right, for a country like India, we should be seeing more adventure bikes being sold every year. Most adventure bike owners clock the most amount of kms when compared to any other kind of premium motorcycle anyways.

Neel

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by petrolhead_neel

The 650cc variants of the Versys and the V-Strom are doing pretty well! But you're right, for a country like India, we should be seeing more adventure bikes being sold every year. Most adventure bike owners clock the most amount of kms when compared to any other kind of premium motorcycle anyways.

Neel

The problem is simple. Those who have lots of money don’t have time. Those who have lots of time don’t have money.

For premium adventure bikes to sell here, the buyer must possess both time and money in equal high measure.

The third quadrant is skill to effectively enjoy a big adventure bike in all terrain, but that is left for another day.

[aargee]

@CrAzY dRiVeR - Feel free to remove this post, but, I got to tell you, THIS IS FANTASTIC EFFORT that you've taken. You might have a database or may be collected online, but, this is no easy task that takes a lot of effort, time & patience.

Many thanks to have consolidated all the data into one place

[neil.jericho]

Here's a slightly more detailed take on the 2019 numbers. There are some interesting details hidden away behind the charts and tables.

Overall the market dropped by 17.14% as CD has mentioned, which to me is a mixed bag in terms of sales performance when we consider all the different factors that came into play in 2019.

Most companies had started disposing of their BS4 inventory by offering big discounts in the last quarter of the year. Even Kawasaki, a company whose dealers are infamous for adding bloated handling charges and inflating showroom prices, went really aggressive and had launched a booster voucher pack that offered big discounts on the on road pricing. Honda had offers where the dealer (and maybe company as well) absorbed the registration charges and offered insurance for Rs 1. This resulted in massive savings in the on road price. Triumph was one of the exceptions and ended up being very conservative in their discounts, this reflects in their performance, or lack of it, as well.

1. Harley Davidson
- Overall, HD fell by 19.19% which is slightly more that what the overall market dropped but this could also be due to HD not having many offers to compete with the others in Q4 of the year. At least, I didnt come across any promotional schemes from them towards the end of the year.
- Year after year, HD proves that its decision to downsize and offer a relatively lower entry point to their brand in emerging markets has been the right decision all along. The Street 750 and its tarted up sister, the Street Rod continue to bring in the volumes for HD. The Street 750 fell by 16.19% YoY while the Street Rod fell by an alarming 44.44%. This could be because owners are finding more "value" in the Street 750 than the Street Rod which does carry a big premium. Since they are based on the same platform, I would club them together for comparisons sake and with that lens, cumulatively they fell by 25.32% YoY. Also, their contribution to the overall annual sales of HD fell from 63.76% to 59.21%, I suspect HD wont be complaining too much about that since the remaining 40.79% will be contributing to more profits per bike.
- Even the next best seller, the Iron 883 dropped 42.08% in 2019. Again, this points to HD selling more of their non entry level bikes and being more profitable per bike sold.

2. Kawasaki
- A YoY sales drop of only 4.28% when the market fell by 17.14% is something to cheer for Kawasaki. Overall, it looks as though they too have followed the same trajectory as HD for the year.
- The very capable Z650 lost a very significant 65.59% in sales YoY and there was only one month with double digit dispatches! In fact the highest number of dispatches in a single month of 2018 (69 units in October) was more than the combined dispatches in 2019. Maybe potential buyers are holding off on their purchases and waiting for the updated one? That might have a marginal impact on the sales at most but it should be concerning for Kawasaki.
- The equally capable Ninja 650 fell by 60.29% which again is no reflection on the capability of the bike.
- The Vulcan fell by 50% but the Versys brings in some cheer after growing 86.08% though its base for 2018 was small (only 79 units).
- If we look at all the 650s together, they dropped by 395 units which is a 42.07% drop YoY. Overall, their contribution to Kawasaki's sales dropped from 55.1% to 33.4%.
- There are a lot of positives for Team Green though. The Z900 grew marginally in the face of stiff competition from the newly launched Duke 790 and the existing challengers.
- The ZX10R doubled its sales as compared to 2018 and the ZX6R reopened a dormant segment and managed to sell 178 units.
- Even the Versys 1000 did 72 units for the year, it wasnt reported in 2018 and was probably clubbed with one of the other entries there.

So, basically the entry level offerings all flopped but Kawasaki pushed a lot more of the mid to high end bikes, that brought in good volumes and better profits per bike as well.

[neil.jericho]

3. Triumph
The English marquee has fallen hard, it performed the worst in the Indian market when compared to the other players. If a 41.91% annual drop in sales YoY doesnt wake them out of their slumber, I dont know what will.
- Not only has Triumph lost sales across all models (except one) and all segments, they managed to reduce their losses in their entry level segment (and not the higher segments) which means even profits per bike would have been down as well.
- The only saving grace was the launch of the new Speed Twin and Scrambler 1200 which accounted for almost 10% of the annual sales in 2019.
- The entry level Street Twin lost 24.1% in sales but if we combine it with its offroading brother, the Street Scrambler, together they lost 19.9% YoY. Since every other product did even worse for Triumph, despite this near 20% loss in sales, their contribution to the overall sales grew from 24.7% in 2018 to 34% in 2019. If that doesnt say how much trouble Triumph is in, I dont know what will.
- Each of the Bonnie series bikes (Bonnie 100, 120, Bobber and Speedmaster) lost between 66.3% to 81.7% YoY. Combined, they dropped by 258 units which is an astounding 74.4% loss in sales YoY. From accounting for nearly a third of Triumph's sales in 2018 (32.8%), their share has dropped to only 14.5%.
- The sporty Street Triple S and RS didnt fare very well either and both dropped their sales to around half of what they achieved in 2018. The Triple S fell by 57.3% and the RS fell by 47.1%. Together they fell by 52.6% in sales YoY and their share of Triumph's annual sales fell from 21.6% (in 2018) to 17.6% in 2019.
- The Tiger 800s performed similarly with the entry level XR losing 63.5% YoY while the XC fell 21.9%. Together, they fell by 46.3% YoY which is a massive drop.
- The new addition, the Speed Twin sold 75 units for the year and I know for a fact that Triumph could have sold a few more had they imported more bikes. All their dealers had run out of stock towards the end of 2019 and forced buyers to move to other brands. Even the discounts on the test ride bikes were pretty low but the bikes got sold in the end.
- Triumph's flawed global no Daytona strategy meant that they lost out on that segment as well. Kawasaki is reaping the rewards there.

I hope 2020 is a better year for Triumph, looking at those numbers for last year made for depressing reading.

4. Suzuki
The easiest to decipher. Suzuki was the only company that reported its numbers to actually grow YoY. An 18.99% growth in this market is overshadowed only by its small numbers, they sell an average of only 35.5 big bikes per month.
- The King gets set to ride into the sunset in 2020 and grew by 7.4% YoY. Those are still impressive numbers for what is an old bike underneath all those bulbous plastics.
- The V Strom 650 grows from strength to strength and doubled its sales in 2019. Kawasaki is definitely feeling the pinch from this bike.
- The GSX S750 did steal some sales from Kawasaki and Triumph.
- Overall, Suzuki may not have a rosy 2020 with the imminent departure of the Hayabusa. I suspect they will slip down the rankings in next years report.

5. Honda
The Japanese giant prefers to remain a niche player in the big bike space in India while they build up their Big Wing network slowly and steadily. Meanwhile they are content to import limited quantities and dealers dont sit on too much inventory. Their attractive offers helped clear out whatever stocks they had. Overall their sales numbers dropped by 21.79% but if Honda had more bikes in hand, they would have sold easily all of them as well. So it appears as though Honda is content to control their sales rather than letting the market dictate their fortunes.
- The Honda CBR650F dropped by 18.2% YoY.
- The very capable Africa Twin dropped by 15.7% YoY.
- Even the Goldwing lost nearly half its sales in 2019.

[chandu]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

The problem is simple. Those who have lots of money don’t have time. Those who have lots of time don’t have money.

For premium adventure bikes to sell here, the buyer must possess both time and money in equal high measure.

The third quadrant is skill to effectively enjoy a big adventure bike in all terrain, but that is left for another day.

You hit the nail on the head here
Another thing to add for an adventure bike, there are hardly any regular off road trails around major cities to use your adventure bike on. Except bangalore, they do have places to go off road.
I have a baby GS and I am not interested in long road trips, where is the fun in that??? However, I would love to go off road but there are hardly any places to go around Hyderabad.
There seem to be riding clubs but I have not found any who do any off road trails around my city. I would love to know if any such group exists.


cheers...

[Vasuki]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

The problem is simple. Those who have lots of money don’t have time. Those who have lots of time don’t have money.

For premium adventure bikes to sell here, the buyer must possess both time and money in equal high measure.

The third quadrant is skill to effectively enjoy a big adventure bike in all terrain, but that is left for another day.

Would like to humbly disagree with some points above.

I've a Multistrada 1260S, exactly a year old. Have already clocked 18750 Kms. It's not just all about money and time.

Tell that to Nandita & Atul. You need to have the intend.. I normally plan a long drive once an year.

Two trips to be precise one to Spiti Valley (7500 Kms odd) and another a Gujarat Trip(6750 Kms odd). Really love long road trips.

Originally Posted by chandu

Another thing to add for an adventure bike, there are hardly any regular off road trails around major cities to use your adventure bike on. Except Bangalore, they do have places to go off road.
However, I would love to go off road but there are hardly any places to go around Hyderabad.
There seem to be riding clubs but I have not found any who do any off road trails around my city. I would love to know if any such group exists.


cheers...

Now coming to off road trips,You may not get a developed off road trail, heck you can create or find an impromptu one. There would definitely be some places offbeat within 100 kms range in Hyderabad to practice.