[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by Vasuki

Would like to humbly disagree with some points above.

I've a Multistrada 1260S, exactly a year old. Have already clocked 18750 Kms. It's not just all about money and time.

Tell that to Nandita & Atul. You need to have the intend.. I normally plan a long drive once an year.

Two trips to be precise one to Spiti Valley (7500 Kms odd) and another a Gujarat Trip(6750 Kms odd). Really love long road trips.

It was a general observation of an entire population of motorcyclists. Not the elite rich who can afford such motorcycles, the accompanying fuel economy figures, and the atrocious cost of ownership.

You are one of the lucky few in this country to have both time and money at generous disposal. Yes, Atul and Nandita are as well. Atul is a good friend.

I also owned a Versys 650, and completed 60,000 kms in 3 years of ownership. I fell in the same bracket.

Good luck on your travels. Let’s see those travel logs.

[chandu]

Originally Posted by Vasuki

Would like to humbly disagree with some points above.

I've a Multistrada 1260S, exactly a year old. Have already clocked 18750 Kms. It's not just all about money and time.

Tell that to Nandita & Atul. You need to have the intend.. I normally plan a long drive once an year.

Two trips to be precise one to Spiti Valley (7500 Kms odd) and another a Gujarat Trip(6750 Kms odd). Really love long road trips.



Now coming to off road trips,You may not get a developed off road trail, heck you can create or find an impromptu one. There would definitely be some places offbeat within 100 kms range in Hyderabad to practice.

Congratulations, Those are so long trips. There is one guy in the local baby GS whatsapp group who has taken his bike all the way to Kashmir from Hyderabad and back last year.

I have only found one very short off road trail and a farm where i have taken it off road, but nothing the kind you can see on youtube over in the EU/US, I will certainly post here if I find a good off road trail locally. I have heard of some pretty bad stories about police harassment of people going off road, they don't take kindly to bikers over here for some reason
Cheers.

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Overall the market dropped by 17.14% as CD has mentioned, which to me is a mixed bag in terms of sales performance when we consider all the different factors that came into play in 2019.

Overall, if we look at the performance of the different companies and look at the macro economic conditions that were prevailing in our country in 2019, the picture is pretty easy to paint.

- Sales of entry level superbikes have been hit the hardest.
Harley Davidson's 750 twins fell by 25.32% YoY. Kawasaki's 650 quadraplets fell by 42.07% YoY. Triumph's entry level bikes lost 19.9% YoY. These are usually picked up by first time buyers in the superbike world.

What could be the causes?

• Buyers may be becoming more careful with how they spend Rs 6 - 8L on what is a depreciating asset in these economic conditions.

• More buyers are finding value in pre-owned motorcycles especially when prices of superbikes have slowly gone up over the years.

• A small section of buyers may be waiting for the real BS4 firesale in Q1 of 2020 and would have postponed their purchases by a few months.

• An even smaller set of buyers may be waiting for BS6 bikes.

• This might be controversial but I think the Royal Enfield 650 twins have stolen a lot of thunder from the entry level offerings from the big brands. The upcoming KTM Adv 390 will also steal some sales from the bigger touring and adventure bikes in 2020. You are getting a lot of bike for not much money in these two cases.

• Buyers might also be waiting out to skip the entry level segment and move up the ladder to the middleweight and upper middleweight / litre class segments. This will beat buying say a Z650, riding it for 3 years, realizing that your riding / skillset / bank balance has outgrown it and then selling it before buying another bigger bike.

- Wide range of offerings matter
HD and Kawasaki have a big product portfolio and despite the entry level of the market collapsing, they did do decently well in terms of overall sales as buyers seem to have been upgrading to bigger motorcycles. Bigger bikes = bigger profits! Suzuki also capitalized well and sold quite a few Hayabusas. Triumph missed the boat here as well though they clawed back some numbers with their new launches.

For 2020, the big question is will the entry market pickup? Also, since many bikes are not Euro 5 / BS6 compliant, the market is going to have a lot of missing bikes in play. Also, I wonder how long this demand for the above Rs 10L bikes will sustain given our economic conditions. In a couple of years we should be seeing some great deals in the second hand market for gems like the Ninja 1000 and that will further impact new bike sales.

[timuseravan]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

- Sales of entry level superbikes have been hit the hardest.
Harley Davidson's 750 twins fell by 25.32% YoY. Kawasaki's 650 quadraplets fell by 42.07% YoY. Triumph's entry level bikes lost 19.9% YoY.

What could be the causes?

• This might be controversial but I think the Royal Enfield 650 twins have stolen a lot of thunder from the entry level offerings from the big brands.

This is not controversial at all. In fact this may be the prime reason.

At least it was for me. I was seriously looking for an upgrade last year with a budget of around 10-12 lakh.
I checked, researched and test rode the HD Street and Sportster series, the Triumph Bonneville, Speed and Street series.

But I just could not justify paying 4x to 5x the price of Interceptor for bikes which are (in my opinion) only 20 to 40% better. And not to mention the humongous maintenance costs and price gouging for even minor accessories.
I suspect the same is the case with many people.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Buyers may be becoming more careful with how they spend Rs 6 - 8L on what is a depreciating asset in these economic conditions.

This is the biggest factor in my opinion. Even I wouldn't have spend on a Versys 650, given the current economic conditions.

The cost of living and unpredictability of the future is increasing at a rate much faster than the salary. I'd be happier with an Interceptor 650, or the 390Adventure, given the current scenario.

[quickdraw]

Ducati certainly has paid the price for their high handedness with prices. When they could have priced stuff closer to Japs thanks for Thailand FTA they chose to go the premium route for branding purpose and priced themselves out of customers like me who would love to own a bike but don't want to pay absurd monies or ride it too much.

Their biggest dealership which opened with much fanfare in Gurgaon has changed hands since it was simply not viable for old chappie. Not heard anything much on it, it's strictly a very expensive indulgence for affluent track nuts or tik tok stars. I will not spend over 15 lakhs for something I'll hardly ride 1500km a year. And I reckon most city folks who are in my position (working professionals) are like me and would rather buy a nice car for ~20-25 lakhs spending money. Much safer too and this is coming from someone who is a hard core biker.

The only great thing they have done is to add a used bike section, but hardly any listings. And loans on used bikes come with absurd terms. Sector is unlikely to see a uptick in coming year. I am worried that companies will start packing up if the government doesn't urgently do something.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by quickdraw

Sector is unlikely to see a uptick in coming year. I am worried that companies will start packing up if the government doesn't urgently do something.

Why would the government give a damn about these class of bikes? I understand if you are talking about the economy segment, they will probably get doled out some GST benefit later in the year.

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by quickdraw

Ducati certainly has paid the price for their high handedness with prices. When they could have priced stuff closer to Japs thanks for Thailand FTA they chose to go the premium route for branding purpose and priced themselves out of customers like me who would love to own a bike but don't want to pay absurd monies or ride it too much.

Why will they price themselves closer to Japs when they command a premium worldwide ? Infact their bikes are pretty reasonably priced compared to the other premium brand BMW. Its like asking why Mercedes doesnt price themselves closer to Toyota

[quickdraw]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Why would the government give a damn about these class of bikes? I understand if you are talking about the economy segment, they will probably get doled out some GST benefit later in the year.

Just like the auto sector there are a lot of people who are employed by the factories, showrooms and service centres. Brands who have made heavy CAPEX if they are unable to show traction then they will shut down and will likely not invest for a very long time. It's in the best interest of the government to promote and revive this ailing industry even if they lose out some taxes in short term. The amount collected is negligible anyways. Also economy bikes and other product lines will trickle down only once there is enough supply & demand.

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

Why will they price themselves closer to Japs when they command a premium worldwide ? Infact their bikes are pretty reasonably priced compared to the other premium brand BMW. Its like asking why Mercedes doesnt price themselves closer to Toyota

Well for starters there is as price elasticity, they are simply not moving enough units to justify India operations currently. The market knows that the import costs of Ducatis are significantly lower than others and it was reflected in initial pricing for both BMW & Ducati but then they increased their pricing and the demand quickly tapered off. The after sales, reliability and costs also have a bad name in India which is causing even more damage.

Mercedes, BMW and all other brands are suffering the same fate by conning Indian customers and their astronomical pricing but they are mitigating it to a large extent by deep discounting, elaborate used car divisions and loan & buyback offers to support their operations.

Superbikes are an extremely niche product and unlike abroad someone who can afford a 20 lakh rupee bike will not buy it because of the road and traffic conditions here. It's in their best interest to adapt for the market and not try and be snotty or premium just for namesake. Japanese bikes end up paying more duties and now a days the flagship models cost almost more than their european counterparts.

Example (advertised prices):

R1 is $17999 which is 20.7 lakhs in India
S1000 RR is $16999 which is 18.5 lakhs in India
Panigale V4 is $21999 which is 20.57 lakhs in India
CBR 1000RR is $16499 which is 15.19 lakhs in India

The only difference is that Yamaha or Honda doesn't care about selling these bikes to survive as its not their bread and butter but it's not the same for Ducati. BMW still has certain liquidity thanks to their lower CC models.

Both the government and brands can always increase the customs/prices later, but if things continue as is it will be really really bad for entire industry.

[timuseravan]

Originally Posted by quickdraw

It's in the best interest of the government to promote and revive this ailing industry even if they lose out some taxes in short term. The amount collected is negligible anyways.

Even if Govt halved the taxes on these bikes, the market simply does not exist to support big sales of these premium bikes. Unlike luxury cars, the buyer needs not only to have money but also be into biking. The section of people with money, time, into biking and willing to ride in Indian conditions is very very small.

Originally Posted by quickdraw

they are simply not moving enough units to justify India operations currently.

And that is the entire crux of the matter. BMW will continue due to their car operations which can support the bikes. But I think Ducati will leave India or at least pares down their operations significantly.

[quickdraw]

Originally Posted by timuseravan

Even if Govt halved the taxes on these bikes, the market simply does not exist to support big sales of these premium bikes. Unlike luxury cars, the buyer needs not only to have money but also be into biking. The section of people with money, time, into biking and willing to ride in Indian conditions is very very small.


And that is the entire crux of the matter. BMW will continue due to their car operations which can support the bikes. But I think Ducati will leave India or at least pares down their operations significantly.

Most people buy these on loans, and a 10-15k emi for a dream bike is not a big deal. But that limits the pricing on the bike to around 10 lakh range. The bikes in that range are selling pretty well but growth has been nerfed because the benefits are not being passed on to the end customer. Similar issue is happening with EVs and 'promoting' local manufacturing by the government. Basically just lots of bad policy steps which need to be revisited.

[Ricci]

Originally Posted by quickdraw

Most people buy these on loans, and a 10-15k emi for a dream bike is not a big deal. But that limits the pricing on the bike to around 10 lakh range. The bikes in that range are selling pretty well but growth has been nerfed because the benefits are not being passed on to the end customer.

That's what I did , I'd taken a personal loan instead, getting the confidence to take one only after hearing the kind of EMIs colleagues pay for home loans - like a baby step towards preparing myself for the eventual home loan.

Originally Posted by quickdraw

Similar issue is happening with EVs and 'promoting' local manufacturing by the government. Basically just lots of bad policy steps which need to be revisited.

Policy makers are oft out of touch with reality. Lot of stuff that isn't made in India and won't be, because domestic businesses only want huge volumes. Unlike say, fashion and luxury, the low volumes high margins sectors like premium motorcycles and motorcycle gear isn't catered to by domestic businesses well, and won't be for years ahead. Before 2010 we barely had 1-2 brands selling riding gear (DSG and Cramster), now at least we have 7-8 ( Solace, Rynox, XDI, PGS, Cramster, Zeus, BBG, DSG ) and SMK is the first brand to manufacture/sell more premium helmets. But the government only sees fit to tax imported vehicles and gear, nevermind the lack equally competent products from domestic industry.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

FY20 annual numbers are out, thanks to Autopunditz - https://www.autopunditz.com/news/ind...igures-fy2020/

And strangely - we also have numbers for Yamaha this time around.

[Red Liner]

The DL650XA is the Vstrom from Suzuki.

[krishnaprasadgg]

Yikes, That is a huge hit for Yamaha. Though I have to say the number of v3 R15 on the road is just in very high volumes.

Also is it just me who seems the number from HD a bit off?
Similarly, the Vulcan sales hike percentage is huge. I'm a bit surprised that it sold so much, I am yet to see one in the wild. Also, 191 ZX-10RR, wasn't the RR a very limited run model? And can't find the ZX-10R number so I'm guessing it was combined maybe?

Cheers
Krishna