[mohanKV]

Great to hear about the changes made by Keerthi and hopefully the same experience is provided to each and every one of us. As you mentioned it's just these small details that matter for the customers more. Slowly but surely the trust of the SVC will be regained. Long way to go for Keerthi but a good first step.

[shan_ned]

It looks like things won’t change in Bangalore Svc. Started hearing horror stories again at their svc. At this rate, we should not be surprised to hear about more skeletons in the cupboard. Just like the Covid pandemic, the number of victims due to bangalore Svc seems to be increasing. Most of them are thinking of going to other Triumph service Centres which are in near-by cities like Cochin/Vijayawada. In fact few are already doing that. Isn’t this a sad situation for most of the Triumph motorcycle owners in Bangalore ?.

There is a feeling among the majority that Triumph India (TI) is not honest enough in dealing with this issue. It looks like TI tried to reach out to the existing customers only to stop them from posting negative feedback around the time when new bikes were getting launched. TI needs to pull up their socks before the situation goes out of control.

[ethanhunt123]

Thats really sad to hear Nedu. Considering Blr has quite a lot of competent independent SBK svc options - maybe it makes sense to try them once when the bike is out of warranty.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

Thats really sad to hear Nedu. Considering Blr has quite a lot of competent independent SBK svc options - maybe it makes sense to try them once when the bike is out of warranty.

The problem is parts. Not the consumables, but stuff for when you break your bike, or when something goes wrong. Nothing is sold over the counter by any of these so called big bike companies. Buying these big bikes is a goddamn exercise in hostage management in India. Every other country’s consumer laws will have these companies beaten black and blue. Keeping that in mind, these guys should be roasted until they sort their stuff out as opposed to listening to personal messages that promise the moon.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

Considering Blr has quite a lot of competent independent SBK svc options

Reality is rather different, I personally have been to MOST of these independent shops and if I rate em with my OCD levels, they are as good as most of the dealers around. Added to this, they will not have access to tools, softwares and spare parts.

I have asked the folks in the whatsapp group to go ahead and post here or email me details if there are issues current or pending, will publish if something is shared with me.

As far as my bike, would have done another 300 kms since the visit and it is running crisp. I even put the new battery I had with me, as a preventive measure, old one refuses to die at close to 5 year mark lol

[joyc_in]

Encouraged by @Jaggu service experience I booked an appointment on 23 Jun 2020 to get my Tiger XRX serviced. The Jobs to be done were
1. Fork Oil Change
2. Brake Fluid Change (Front & Rear)
3. T Stem Spider nut tightening
Appointment was for 9.30 Am and I reached the SVC at 9.25 Am, and the wait began. The Service Manager came at 10 Am took the details of the jobs to be done, Inspected the bike took some pics all around and took the bike upstairs to the service bay. It was 10.30 am now.
I went to the Customer lounge where I could see the Service bay on the TV installed there. work on the bike did not start till 11.15 Am. Owing to my previous encounters and experiences shared by others I decided to stay put in the Customer Lounge and keep a watch on the proceedings.
Till 1 pm the Mech working on the bike managed to remove the Front wheel & fork, drain the old oil, clean the Forks and fill new oil then proceeded for Lunch.
Work resumed post lunch at 2 Pm where the Mech began by reinstalling the Front forks then the front wheel. This is where I noticed the first goof up. I have installed aftermarket TPMS on my bike. The TPMS sensors on the air nozzle are on the right side due to the angled air nozzle. I saw the Mech fit the TPMS sensor on the left side which was incorrect as the Front wheel was fitted incorrectly. I immediately called the Service Manager and told him that the front wheel was incorrectly fitted. He went upstairs and got it rectified. This is basic and not to be mistaken by an experienced Mech, which this Mech was not. Any one owning a Tiger would know the Air Nozzle is pointed towards the right when you sit on the bike. Additionally the ABS ring and Sensor for the front wheel are on the left side when you sit on the bike. These are easy identifiers to know how to reinstall the wheels.
Post rectifying this error he proceed to tighten the T Stem spider nut, here the second goof up happened. He just tightened the Top nut above the T Stem and proceeded to the next job. Again I called the Service Manager and told him that the Mech has only tightened the Top nut and not the Spider Nut. The spider nut rests under the T Stem. To access it the Clamps holding the Front Fork have to be loosened, Handle bar removed, Top nut removed, Top part of the T Stem has to be removed to access the Spider Nut. Post this any play lateral play in the Front Forks have to be adjusted proceeded by tightening the Spider nut and refitting the assembly. This shows the Mech does not know the difference between the Top nut and Spider Nut, again basics. The Service Manager ran upstairs again and got it sorted.
Replacing Brake fluid was uneventful and went smoothly.
They did a shoddy job of washing the bike which I had clearly asked them not to do. When asked they said there were oil marks on the bike hence they washed it but did not dry the bike and got it down for a test ride. I got the Service Manager to blow dry the bike before he took it out for the test ride. For a 4 hour job I spent nearly the full day at the SVC and left at 5.30 Pm.
One improvement I must highlight though is they are using Torque Wrench while refitting the removed parts.
I wonder if I was not sitting and over seeing the job being done on the TV in the customer lounge, I would have been riding with the Front wheel without ABS and tyre rotating in the reverse direction. Imagine if this happened to you and you did not notice as you dropped off the bike and left to do your thing and came to pick the bike in the evening.
With this experience I still can't rely on Bangalore SVC to do a thorough job without being monitored. Per me nothing has changed apart from some superficial stuff.

[Axe77]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDePfqWn...d=7rj4w1jb2g8u

This is an interesting update by a pretty popular insta page of a Tiger rider. I'm sure many ADV / Tiger groups may have received pictures of the incident when it happened.

I can't copy and quote text from an Insta page unfortunately. Please follow the link to see it first hand, but in summary:

- New Rally Pro 900 purchased;
- Goes through a massive ditch which was filled with water and not visible in the dark.
- Damaged both alloys. As per Rohan, this does not take away from the quality of the bike but endorses it because he feels on any other bike (including his 2017 XRX) it would have certainly either thrown him off completely or done other rider damage. This one, the shocks completely took the brunt of it.
- Importantly, he was all praises for the Shaman team for procuring new wheels for him within 2 weeks. Honestly at the best of times that is impressive but for a newly launched bike and with covid restrictions that's downright impressive.

All in all, I think if you are either in mumbai / pune at least Triumph ASC seems to leave you in good hands.

On a sidenote, I myself casually went to the ASC after my first long ride in many months The SVC mentioned my chain needed lubing - they just washed up the bike and lubed the chain while I was chatting with them. Just like that. No charge, pure courtesy.

I will still swear by Atul and his team in Mumbai and I believe the Pune SVC similarly is really good as well. I really do hope Bangalore gets its act together soon. Its a pity what riders there seem to have to put up with.

[Odeen12]

Originally Posted by Axe77

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDePfqWn...d=7rj4w1jb2g8u
I will still swear by Atul and his team in Mumbai and I believe the Pune SVC similarly is really good as well. I really do hope Bangalore gets its act together soon. Its a pity what riders there seem to have to put up with.

Had to jump in on this. Atul is a gem of a person. He puts in the effort and is honest. In my 2 years of ownership and countless coffees, cigarettes and random conversations, never had an issue with the bike. As Axe mentioned, the service guys have helped me out just out of courtesy, tighten the chain etc.

I have also seen how people talk to the service advisors and their respective service managers. A little courtesy and decorum go a long way. The guys at Triumph Mumbai are doing a superb job. Having said that, there will still be people who are unhappy, but you can't please everyone.

Cheers,
R

[r_nairtvm]

2009 Bonneville Major Service

I took in my Bonnie for a 10K Service to Keerti Triumph Bangalore Recently

Considering it is 11 year old now - there were couple of parts the efficacy of which had come down, needed replacement and attention

Jobs asked to be attended to;

1. Slight oil seepage from head cam cover
2. Checking on the Low Fuel sensor - stopped working on a ride last weekend
3. An iffy neutral light
4. Replacing oil and filter
5. Replacing of the brake fluids
6. 10K servicing and check up

I had requested that one particular mechanic - Dharani - to be assigned to attending to the bike

Works Manager - Gautam said up front that it can be done but can't agree to an immediate turnaround. As I was Ok with that, told him to go ahead.

They took 2 full days to complete the jobs

• The Cam Cover Seal had become hard and unpliable and hence, it was changed
• The Low fuel level sensor had failed and was replaced
• During course of Service it was discovered that the spark plugs were in its last leg and advised to replace
• A rubber washer had become damaged on the neutral switch set up causing a loose connection and hence the "iffy neutral light"
• The 11 year old OE Air Filter was found to be in bad shape with the seal crumbling and hence, replaced

All other jobs associated with a 10K service was attended to

On delivery I found everything to be in order. SVC called and took approval for all replacements and all old parts were kept aside for my inspection.

I requested for some minor stuff to be adjusted before riding off, Dharani came down to the foyer and attended to it. I must say the way he was handling the job shows all the signs of a dedicated mechanic who take pride in his job.

On the whole the bike feels refreshed

Best Regards & Ride Safe

[neil.jericho]

On the 14th of September, I had given my 2014 Street Triple 675 for service to Syamadynamic Motorcycles, the Triumph dealership for Kerala. I have owned the bike for just over 2 years now and the bike had covered a total of 21,600 kms at the time of the service. The bike's annual service was due a couple of months ago but due to the ongoing Covid pandemic and the steady rise in cases, I have been restricting my visits to commercial establishments and didn’t take it in. Anyways, a week before the service, I gave Anilal, the service SPOC, a heads up and booked a slot for that Monday and told him what all work was to be done. He mentioned that it would take 2 days to complete everything, which was fine by me.

Below is the list of things which I had asked them to do as part of the service when I handed over the bike
- General service which included oil change, air filter change etc.
- Replacement of brake fluids, both front and rear.
- Replacement of the coolant.
- Checking the alignment of the rear wheel. I had replaced both tires just a week before the service and the refitting passed my eye test but nonetheless, I felt that it was better that they recheck it.
- Replacement of the front fork oil, seals etc.
- Regreasing of the Ohlins suspension at the rear.
- Tightening of the chain, it had some slack in it.
- Identify the source of the vibrations that I was feeling on the bike. There were noticeable vibes at around the 6,000 RPM mark onwards.
- Replace the weak Triumph horn with an aftermarket one which I had brought.

Triumph India recommends Castrol Power 1 engine oil which as per almost every owner, performs just about fine but there are many other oils that are far superior to it in the market. Last year I switched to Shell fully synthetic oil and I was quite happy with the performance. This year too, I took 4 litres of the same Shell fully synthetic oil and handed it over at the time of the service. I received my first surprise when I was told that they are not using engine oils from outside now. I mentioned that last year there was no issue and enquired if there had been a process change. For reference, Royal Enfield changed its policy a couple of year ago and doesn’t allow owners to bring their engine oils when dropping their bikes for service. I was not aware if something similar had happened with Triumph. The service team checked with the higher ups and then said that it was fine to use the Shell oil on my bike. So, I assume they were trying to push the Castrol oil here and there is no actual Triumph policy of not using outside oil for out of warranty motorcycles.

The ballpark figure given for all the work was around Rs 20,000, which is what I had expected.

Later, I received a call from Anilal where he informed me that there might be some issue with the cone set. He said that when they moved the handlebar from left to right, they felt that there was some slight problem and that they would open it up and check it properly. If there was any cause for concern, they would send me the pictures and only based on my approval, they would proceed with a replacement. I had not felt any issues with the handlebar at all so I was surprised by this and mentioned the same to him. The next day, (day 2) they sent me pictures of the cone set and recommended the replacement and asked me for my approval.

Here are the pictures received on whatsapp

From the photos, it looked like there were some marks on it but I am not an expert and hence checked with a fellow TBHPian. He said that it was difficult to ascertain the exact damage from the pictures but he recommended that it be changed. So, I gave the dealership the thumbs up to go ahead on this. I was also told that the spark plugs need to be changed and I agreed to that as well. The dealership had also sent some pictures of some marks on the inner fork tube.

Here are the pictures received on whatsapp

They told me that with the additional cone set and spark plug change, the bill amount would go up to around Rs 30,000.

By day 5, which is Friday the 18th, I had not heard any subsequent update from the dealership so I called them and was told that the bike was ready. The bill amount was Rs 26,182. Anilal was out of station and the service team was short staffed and hence they had taken 4 days to finish the work. When I checked the bike, the first thing I noticed was that the chain slack was exactly as it was when I had handed over the bike to them. They had cleaned and lubed the chain but had not checked the slack themselves. Lets not forgot that I had specifically told them to tighten it!

How do you not catch this during a service even if the customer doesnt know it or mention it?

So, they had to wheel the bike back in for the work to be done. I did politely tell Rahul, the service technician, that in my experience, this was not the first time that they have done 19 out of 20 things properly but forgotten to pay attention to the 20th item, which in turn clouds the otherwise good service experience. He did profusely apologize for their oversight, and I was happy that it was taken in the right spirit.

For reference, at one of the earlier services, I had given them Osram Night Breaker headlights to replace the OEM ones and they had forgotten to do a basic alignment of the lamps which meant that my bike was lighting up the top of the Cochin metro, instead of the road in front of me. If the dealership tightens up such loose ends, it will only contribute to a better all-round customer experience and bring in more sale referrals for them.

Back to the bike, after they tightened the chain and wheeled it back out, when I sat on the bike, I realized that the handlebar position was completely off as compared to earlier. So, Rahul had to again come back to check the bike's handlebar. I learnt that the OEM handlebar has a small white mark on it that is supposed to align to the flat line on the right side of the clamp. When the handlebar is removed, it has to be replaced by putting the white mark exactly against the flat line. That is as per the Triumph guidelines and coincidentally, that was the default setting on my motorcycle earlier but when they replaced the handlebars, they had forgotten to check this. So, the alignment was off by a few millimetres which resulted in a drastically different feel on the bike.

Marker point for reference




Team fixing it

Again, this is something that would have been avoided had they followed the instructions from Triumph and paid close attention to the work. They fixed the issue and things were back as they were. Overall, I spent around 30 - 45 minutes waiting for them to fix these things that should not have cropped up in the first place.

I enquired about the remaining 800 ml of engine oil from the 4th one litre bottle that I had handed over to them. I was told that without informing me in advance, they had used the remaining new engine oil for flushing the engine. I was rather baffled by this.

Now coming to the billing, the service bills for the products and the labour are below. They walked me through it while I had made the payment but I did not check every single line item thoroughly against what I had asked them to do. This was something that I should have done, next time onwards I will write down the different points on my phone and cross reference them at the time of billing.

Anyways, at home, while going through the labour bill, I was surprised to see the outjobs entry so I called up the dealership regarding this and Rahul mentioned that this was not actually a labour related entry, but that of the Motul 5W fork oil which they procured from outside. I learnt that Triumph India doesn’t provide the dealerships with fork oil which shocked me. I also felt that there was a major discrepancy in the billing as it appeared to have GST on top of the MRP, this didn’t make any sense to me whatsoever.

I was also surprised to note that there was no product entry for brake fluids. Similarly, there was no entry for the coolant. I was not sure if they didn’t do the work or forgot to bill me for the products. I discussed the above issues with a couple of TBHPians and they shared the same concerns as me. More details in the next post.

[neil.jericho]

To find out more, I visited the dealership on the 19th (Saturday) to ensure there was nothing missed from my end, their end or got lost in translation. I also asked them to just provide the job card as well so that we could cross reference and see how things got missed, they readily brought the job card. I forgot to take a picture of it, if my memory serves me correctly, I did notice that one or two things which I had mentioned were not written on the job card.

Responses to my queries from the service team
Anilal had returned that day and we had a pretty long chat on the different questions that I had. On the topic of the
1. outjobs entry, they understood my point about the double GST taxation that was applied and asked if I was willing to take a store credit. I told them that I would prefer to take cash instead and they handed over Rs 266 to me. This is the sum of the CGST and SGST that was erroneously applied on the bill. Since Triumph India does not provide the dealerships the fork oil, the dealerships in turn are unable to enter these fork oil sourced from the free market under the spare part product bill. Hence it goes under the labour bill and GST gets added on top of it in their billing system.

2. brake fluid, I was told that the dealership drains the brake fluid and tops up the remaining amount. So, they don’t necessarily replace the entire brake fluid in the same quantity as it is specified in the service manual but check the amount and top it up with the minimal quantity required.

3. coolant, the same applied for this as well. They claim to be draining it and topping it up.

4. 800 ml being used for the engine flush, this is the apparently the process that the dealership has been following on all bikes.

What are my thoughts on each of these?
1. Fork oil change
I don’t understand why Triumph India has left dealers to fend for themselves when it comes to sourcing crucial consumables like fork oil. What if there is a shortage of any and all fork oil in the local open market due to issues with the local distributor? What if the correct grade of fork oil is not available in the local market, are dealers expected to use some fork oil of some other grade? What if the local market is flooded with fakes and a Triumph dealership unknowingly uses that on our bikes? Will Triumph India take responsibility for any subsequent issues that might crop up?

Also, and this is some thinking from my side on behalf of the Triumph dealerships, if they cannot tag these local market products correctly in their billing system as it is not sourced from Triumph India, shouldn’t the company provide them with a technical billing workaround to avoid the double GST impact on the customer?

2. Brake fluid change
On page 84 of the service manual, it states that the brake fluid needs to be changed every 2 years irrespective of the mileage covered. I was not able to understand the process that the dealership is following as, to my limited understanding, if they drain the fluids, there is no top up possible. Instead, since the braking reservoir and lines are technically empty, they have to replace the old drained fluid with completely new brake fluid in the full required quantity. As far as I know, the question of topping up cannot arise here as it’s a full replacement. Are words being used interchangeably here by the dealerships? When I enquired about why I was not charged for it, I was told that it is a small quantity so they don’t charge customers for it and it is part of the service bill.

3. Coolant change
Same as above. Again, I don’t follow the logic or the technical side of what they are doing here. On page 83 of the service manual, it states that the coolant needs to be changed every 3 years irrespective of the mileage covered. On page 147 of the service manual, it states that the bike needs 2.24 litres of coolant.

When I checked the past service bills, I found that the coolant was last changed in February 2018 which is before I owned the bike. The gentleman who owned the bike at that time was billed for 2 litres of coolant and charged a total of Rs 786.56 in total for it. That makes it 2 and a half years since it was last changed which is within the stipulated time frame.

Long story short, it appears as though the dealership may not have replaced the brake fluids and most definitely did not replace the coolant despite me clearly asking them to do it. I honestly cannot understand why this is the case. I told them that I will bring the bike back to them in about a week or so for them to do this work that they missed / misunderstood / done as per their understanding. I clearly laid out what is my understanding of the brake fluid and coolant change process (which is rather frustratingly, exactly the same thing as what I told them when I gave the bike for service but that is a story for another day….) and that I expected a half day turn around for these two jobs but I was told that the coolant change requires some steps which they tried explaining and I could not figure out at all. Basically, the bike needs to be dropped one afternoon, they do some work, it needs to be kept overnight, and then the next morning, they replace the coolant and it’s good to go. This really puzzled me and I didn’t ask more as I didn’t understand head or tail of the supposedly Triumph specified process.

4. Missing 800 ml engine oil
When it comes to engine oil flushing, I have only heard of either
a. Draining the existing engine oil, then cheap mineral oil in the full quantity required is poured in the bike and run for 15 - 20 minutes. This is then drained and the new engine oil, again in the full quantity required is poured into the engine. The cheap mineral oil does the job of flushing out the internals and keeps it clean for the new engine oil.
b. Engine oil flush additives being added to the existing engine oil, after which the bike is run for 15 - 20 minutes. This is then drained and the new engine oil in the full quantity required is poured into the engine. Here the additive does the job of flushing out the internals and keeps it clean for the new engine oil.
Again, I’m not a technical guy by any stretch of the imagination but I’ve owned bikes for almost two decades and I just don’t get what the Triumph dealerships are trying to do. It appears as though they are just using the 800 ml to pour and wash out the insides of the engine through gravity and hope that it dislodges the impurities. It doesn’t make sense but that is the best that I could make of it. It is nowhere close to flushing, as the term is actually used in the industry. It just appears to be a really expensive waste of perfectly good engine oil.

Now, unrelated to my motorcycle (as it is well out of warranty), but on newer bikes that still stick to the company recommended Castrol Power 1 to retain the warranty, all the Triumph dealerships bill customers for 4 litres of the oil but they do not return the 800 ml to them. I was told that instead of doing so, the dealerships follow the 800 ml "flushing" process there as well.

I have been told, and I don’t know how far this is true, that dealerships need a special commercial license to sell and bill engine oil and some other fluids on actuals. So, if the dealership uses say 2.8 litres of engine oil, then you will be billed for the same 2.8 litres if and only if the dealership has that license. On the other hand, if they do not have the required license, in the same situation, you would be billed for the full 3 litres. As I said, I have never heard of this before and I don’t know if this is related to the above point of 800 ml being used for the "flushing". Could they be related?

What did I learn?
- I really should have a hand written or typed on my mobile phone list of items to be done when I hand over the bike to a dealership.
- I should take a photograph of the job card activities at the time of handing over the bike. This will ensure that nothing is misunderstood, as was in the case of the brake fluid and coolant.
- Ask for pictures of all parts that the service team calls up and says needs to be replaced (explained in the following section)
- Insist on checking the parts that were replaced on my bike before billing.

What I would like to learn
As I mentioned earlier, a lot of the explanations just don’t add up to my understanding and hence I pose the following questions for fellow members to help me understand more on the same, both technically and process wise. If there are some things that I can learn and take back to the dealership for subsequent discussions, it would be of a great help to me.
a. Here I will restrict my question to owners of other superbikes, as it would be unfair to compare Triumph dealerships with say Hero or Bajaj, but does say a Kawasaki or Honda (Big Wing) dealership source the fork oil themselves from the local market or does the company provide full support in all consumables? If a forum member has a good rapport with their service advisor, can he / she please check on the same?
b. Has anyone heard of this drain and top up method of brake and coolant replacement? Is this an industry wide practice? More importantly, is this the correct process as specified by Triumph?
c. Is this 800 ml engine oil "flushing" process correct? Is this an industry wide practice? Is this the correct process as specified by Triumph (it appears to be so)? Or are dealers supposedly following this with the blessings of Triumph while not following the specified rule (i.e. service) book?
d. Are Triumph dealers actually doing the 800 ml “flushing” process? I have to wonder, what if the 800 ml “flushing” does not happen but the billing happens for the full 4 litres for every Triple customer? If one Triple’s service gives a dealership 800 ml of extra engine oil for flushing, that means that four bikes coming in gives the dealership will result in 3.2 litres of new, unused and extra engine oil. That means each customer ended up paying 25% more unnecessarily and the same 25% oil can be poured in the fifth bike that comes in for service, though that fifth customer will be billed the whole 4 litres as well.
e. Do dealerships return all the spares to you when you collect your bike? I realized that they returned the old OEM horn that had outlived its usefulness but they did not return the spark plugs to me. Come to think of it, they didn’t send the pictures of the old spark plugs when they were checked and identified for replacement. I also wasn’t shown the replaced cone set and I forgot to ask about it as well.

How does the bike feel after the service?
In two words - completely refreshed and a lot more fun! The cause of the vibrations in the engine that were present earlier was narrowed down to a loose foundation bolt. With the change in the fork oil, the front end stability under braking has really improved a lot! It feels completely rock solid now, do bear in mind that it was not bad prior to the service. It is just that it has just got a whole lot better with the change. As I mentioned earlier, I had changed the tires as well prior to the service so on the whole, the bike feels like it has got a new lease of life when it already felt fresh before that.

These are world class machines and deserve to treated well by its owners for us to enjoy the best of what they offer. If we do open up our wallets, at admittedly what can seem like a steep price to others, the rewards that we get in terms of the riding experience, are plentiful indeed.

Overall thoughts
I must first say that the Cochin dealership has a great reputation in the Kerala motorcycling community and wins a lot of best Triumph dealer awards and actual owners seem to be a very content lot. If I were to take a poll on which big bike owners in Kerala have the best all round experience with their dealer, Triumph would easily win it for sure. There is no doubting any of that. However, as I have said earlier, when it comes to the service side, the dealership does a lot of things correctly but they slip up on small stuff which should be caught. Are all other Triumph owners in Kerala as observant and detail oriented as me on some of these aspects? Some maybe and some may not be.

I will admit that this service experience has shaken the confidence that I had earlier and I have wondered this - if they forget relatively simple things that I can easily catch, are they also letting slip other things that I cannot catch? If they can clean and lube a chain, surely, they should have known to check the chain slack and tighten it even if I hadn’t asked them to do it!

I am reserving my judgement on the questions that I have asked in the "What I would like to learn" section. Once I hear back from other members here, I will be able to shape up my thought process on the same.

[neil.jericho]

Phew! That was a lot to type and took quite a bit of time to put together. I wasnt planning on a third post but just one, while going through the bills one last time, before packing it safely, I did notice a discrepancy with the dates.

What is so special about the dates you might ask? Well here is the actual timeline.
14th Sep - Monday - Bike was handed over to Triumph dealership for service. Work was expected to be completed on the next day i.e. the 15th.
15th Sep - Tuesday - Pictures of parts (cone set and fork) sent
18th Sep - Friday - I contact the dealership and was told that work had finished the previous evening i.e. the 17th.

Now look at the billing date. It is the 16th i.e. Wednesday. How come the bill was prepared a day before the work finished? Baffling, indeed!

[krishnaprasadgg]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

[b]1. Fork oil change
Also, and this is some thinking from my side on behalf of the Triumph dealerships, if they cannot tag these local market products correctly in their billing system as it is not sourced from Triumph India, shouldn’t the company provide them with a technical billing workaround to avoid the double GST impact on the customer?

What was stopping them from just buying the part required and handing over the bill of that shop to cover the expense. I understand fork oil change is most probably not something we do as DIY and having a leftover bottle of oil might not make sense but paying for something and not getting back the rest of it is not the right thing to do either.

2. Brake fluid change

[b]3. Coolant change

Both of these you cannot just drain completely and refill. Once the lines have been drained they need to be cleaned through a few times to make sure there is no sludge/grime and no air in the system(you'd be surprised at the amount of grime and goo that remains in the brake/coolant reservoir)

a. For brake fluid, new brake fluid is bled through the system a few times(you are paying for a full bottle of fluid)and since the bike needs only a little fluid draining a few times is not a wasteful act but rather required for your brakes to function. Removing the air bubbles also happens via this bleeding process.

b. You ideally never just refill coolant after 2 years of usage. you use either distilled water and/or vinegar to flush through the system a few times (both are dirt cheap and easily accessible) to remove coolant goo in the system and at the bottom of the overflow tank. Have seen some nasty stuff in those with my CBR and even the R1.

I was told that the coolant change requires some steps which they tried explaining and I could not figure out at all. Basically, the bike needs to be dropped one afternoon, they do some work, it needs to be kept overnight, and then the next morning, they replace the coolant and it’s good to go. This really puzzled me and I didn’t ask more as I didn’t understand head or tail of the supposedly Triumph specified process.

BTW, that drip overnight system need not be done if you are flushing the coolant system with the distilled water/vinegar method.
Surely the irony is not lost when they say "Triumph specified process" and we read what they did with the handlebar alignment and headlight alignment.

4. Missing 800 ml engine oil
When it comes to engine oil flushing, I have only heard of either
a. Draining the existing engine oil, then cheap mineral oil in the full quantity required is poured in the bike and run for 15 - 20 minutes. This is then drained and the new engine oil, again in the full quantity required is poured into the engine. The cheap mineral oil does the job of flushing out the internals and keeps it clean for the new engine oil.
b. Engine oil flush additives

I have been enough around service centers to know that unless you ask for the oil back they keep it with them. You see they keep the leftover oil in the original bottles from unsuspecting customers and if they get 2 oil of the same weight(xxWxx rating) they mix it, so what happens is when they get 3-4 customers to not ask for their oil back they get to do one full oil change for another customer with no oil cost to them in inventory but they charge the customer for it anyway. That's is a cool few thousand in profit. Now I don't mean to say that that is what is done here. But just a heads up that there are people who do it and it amounts to a huge profit for them over some time. The same goes for other fluids you pay for but don't collect the leftover.
But at the same time, many shops do not charge for actual brake and coolant top-ups(mind you, just top up not flushing and new fluid changes) as they use fluids from these "opened cans" lying around in the shop.

[b]What I would like to learn
b. Has anyone heard of this drain and top up method of brake and coolant replacement? Is this an industry wide practice? More importantly, is this the correct process as specified by Triumph?
c. Is this 800 ml engine oil "flushing" process correct? Is this an industry wide practice? Is this the correct process as specified by Triumph (it appears to be so)? Or are dealers supposedly following this with the blessings of Triumph while not following the specified rule (i.e. service) book?
d. Are Triumph dealers actually doing the 800 ml “flushing” process? I have to wonder, what if the 800 ml “flushing” does not happen but the billing happens for the full 4 litres for every Triple customer? If one Triple’s service gives a dealership 800 ml of extra engine oil for flushing, that means that four bikes coming in gives the dealership will result in 3.2 litres of new, unused and extra engine oil. That means each customer ended up paying 25% more unnecessarily and the same 25% oil can be poured in the fifth bike that comes in for service, though that fifth customer will be billed the whole 4 litres as well.
e. Do dealerships return all the spares to you when you collect your bike? I realized that they returned the old OEM horn that had outlived its usefulness but they did not return the spark plugs to me. Come to think of it, they didn’t send the pictures of the old spark plugs when they were checked and identified for replacement. I also wasn’t shown the replaced cone set and I forgot to ask about it as well.

b. Have explained the process in the quote reply above.

c. I call BS on that. 800ml being put to waste is just very irresponsible just from the environmental waste being produce by having to dispose off that amount of oil. You should have collected back that oil and let me just clarify a quick once over through the oil lines/pocket DO NOT clean out the sludge of the engine so unless you are not switching brands or engine oil types(Mineral/SS/FS) better not to go for any kind of "flushing". There are many well-documented cases where multiple cycles of mineral oil flushes are used to clean up engine oil gunk amassed over a lot of riding(very high mileages bikes).

d. I would say just ask them to give it back. Too late in this case but be very clear that you need the 800ml back in the original container from next time onwards

e. Yes, but they conveniently do not show or talk about it in front of the customer to avoid having to hand it over. used parts that are changed as part of preventive maintenance but are in good shape is usually kept aside by techs and used in certain emergency cases/ to pull out some side money by selling it to someone who is looking for a stop-gap solution for a certain part. Age-old trick in the book. Again not saying they did this but this does happen.

Always make it a point to get back the replaced parts.

Cheers
Krishna

[shan_ned]

@Neil.jericho
Thanks to Krishna Prasasd for sharing his thoughts and getting some clarity. Hope few more pitch in and clarify things. Few comments on the issues you raised.

1) Preparing Job card :-
As far as I know, some of the Triumph dealers do not prepare the job card for the customers. I do not know the reason behind it. As some one said, even a TVS XL owner gets a copy of the job card when he/she gives the moped for service. I am thinking loud on why Triumph dealers do not give a copy of the job card. Triumph, being a prestigious and truly British company, is an highly elite brand and so they may not want to follow the same job card procedure as followed by the cattle class motorcycle brands.

2) on the brake fluid/cooland issue :-
Even here, I am trying to understand the highly complex procedure explanied by the Cochin dealer. When they say they drained out the old fluid and did a top up with the new fluid, does it mean they did a partial drain and followed by the top up ?. Here again, I am trying to understand the rational behind doing a partial drain and doing a top up. As far as my limited understanding, there are only 2 options -
Either the old fluid is complelety drained out and the new fluid is added freshly(or) just add a top up (and not do any partial drain).
I guess either the Cochin dealer or Triumph India or BOTH together have come out with an highly advanced and patented method/technology for changing the brake fluid/coolant. This highly patented method from Triumph India seems to be all about replacing the brake fluid with zero cost. What a great invention !!!
This patented method itself is a good reason for all the bikers to dump other motorcycle brands and embrace the truly british brand.
Hats off to them

[Jaggu]

Damn this was one of the good dealers and infact i had decided to take my bike to cochin to get the work done if things did not work out with Bangalore. If they are good as they are informed to be my friends, they would call and replace the coolant and do a complete brake fluid flush (including ABS) in front of you.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

What I would like to learn

a. Here I will restrict my question to owners of other superbikes, as it would be unfair to compare Triumph dealerships with say Hero or Bajaj, but does say a Kawasaki or Honda (Big Wing) dealership source the fork oil themselves from the local market or does the company provide full support in all consumables? If a forum member has a good rapport with their service advisor, can he / she please check on the same?

Yes procuring consumables locally especially fluids is followed by many, though it is billed normally for the consumer.

b. Has anyone heard of this drain and top up method of brake and coolant replacement? Is this an industry wide practice? More importantly, is this the correct process as specified by Triumph?

Top up yes, but if draining why would anyone just stop at top up. Unless they thought the fluid was in good condition and decided to only bleed the system. How was the fluid color through the window? Clear or dark?

c. Is this 800 ml engine oil "flushing" process correct? Is this an industry wide practice? Is this the correct process as specified by Triumph (it appears to be so)? Or are dealers supposedly following this with the blessings of Triumph while not following the specified rule (i.e. service) book?

Naah at best it will remove some sediment at the oil sump, but then again I personally haven't seen this done anywhere including triumph. Infact to drain the complete oil in some of the models like tiger, the bike has to be on side stand and tilted and NOT on central stand. This I have to remind all the workshop guys They just try to avoid that additional 2 mts effort of bringing the bike down to side stand for the job, end result 200-250 ml of old oil still remains.

d. Are Triumph dealers actually doing the 800 ml “flushing” process? I have to wonder, what if the 800 ml “flushing” does not happen but the billing happens for the full 4 litres for every Triple customer? If one Triple’s service gives a dealership 800 ml of extra engine oil for flushing, that means that four bikes coming in gives the dealership will result in 3.2 litres of new, unused and extra engine oil. That means each customer ended up paying 25% more unnecessarily and the same 25% oil can be poured in the fifth bike that comes in for service, though that fifth customer will be billed the whole 4 litres as well.

Personally I would not mind the additional 500 ml or so as long as they do the proper job. I remember BLR dealer giving me the remaining oil back, even Vijaywada guys did that. But both times I had carried the oil from outside, but as per specification.

e. Do dealerships return all the spares to you when you collect your bike? I realized that they returned the old OEM horn that had outlived its usefulness but they did not return the spark plugs to me. Come to think of it, they didn’t send the pictures of the old spark plugs when they were checked and identified for replacement. I also wasn’t shown the replaced cone set and I forgot to ask about it as well.

You might want to inform them ahead, then they might collect and keep. But then again no way to confirm, hence I prefer the standing along with bike/car method of service. It is better for dealer and me

Edit: I would like to give the benefit of doubt that this bad experience was due to the covid related labor issue and hopefully the dealership would come forward and do the right things for you.