[AMG Power]

You have only two options:

Take it up, pursue it legally, use the help of social media and hope for the best.

OR

Pay the 3000 and carry on with life. Until you're caught again.


Depends on your inclination and time.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Perfectly summed. While the cops might have tried to gather some revenue, they still had a reason to do so. The lockdown still exists, but with a lot of relaxation. Going on a jolly ride isnt a part of the relaxation.

Originally Posted by AtheK

I agree with points above, the police was wrong, but so were SBK riders, we are still in lockdown, only essential travel is allowed.

Guys, please note that this is a moral viewpoint (which I also agree with!), but has no legal basis!

Lockdown 4.0 statements released by both MoH as well as the Government of Karnataka makes no mention of any need for 'essential travel'. Intra-state travel was permitted and the riders were well within their legal rights to be out on a ride.

Attaching the relevant portions of both orders below.

MOH -



Government of Karnataka -



My heart says they were morally wrong to ride yesterday (And I've not had a ride myself since last February - so it's not like I don't understand what they are missing out). BUT - catching hold of every biker and charging him with offences like this, without legal support (No interceptor for speeding, and disobedience of police?) - just doesn't feel right either!

It is not the first time (lockdown or no lockdown) and it won't be the last too!

[Bibendum90949]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

From the same gentleman's Youtube feed

I don't feel safe while driving anything above 120 in a safe car with all the active and passive safety features. Here one's seen riding at insane speeds (165 kmph) on a two wheeler. It's not about the machine's capability. Ride Safe and you get to ride again. It sends shivers down the spine with the thought of a stray cattle or a dog crossing the road out of nowhere or a careless moron jaywalking/crossing the road, which is pretty much a norm on our roads. Will he get enough braking distance to avoid the collision, forget stopping the bike in time.

Some people prefer to live on the edge and for them there lies the thrill.

[Added_flavor]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Guys, please note that this is a moral viewpoint (which I also agree with!), but has no legal basis!

Thank you, this is exactly what I wanted to say. There's nothing illegal in the context of the lockdown that any of these guys did. Yes, with regards to traffic laws, many of them might have broken the speed limit. However, since when do the other bikers here follow 50kph limit and the car guys follow whatever the speed limit is?

With regards to the incident, I have heard multiple 'causes'. One I heard said the villagers were pressurising cops to take action against loud exhausts sound, one says there was a high court judge passing by and he was the one who called the cops etc.

I don't know what led to this. But neither the cops nor any of the bikers spoke about lockdown violation, so let's not even go there.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Guys, please note that this is a moral viewpoint (which I also agree with!), but has no legal basis!

Statements released by both MoH as well as the Government of Karnataka makes no mention of any need for 'essential travel'. Intra-state travel was permitted and the riders were well within their legal rights to be out on a ride.

If you read the line which says "The following activities are permitted with restrictions" and hence it doesnt mean people can go on rides without a purpose. Even in the media releases they had mentioned that citizens should travel for essential needs only, but cant find an order. But I have repeatedly seen this in media that only essential travel is permitted. The police still have the power to take this action as long as the restrictions are in place. Of course, you can take out your superbike for groceries, but you should be able to justify your case when a concerned authority asks. I dont think they could have justified going to Hassan to buy milk. There are still checkposts outside of Bangalore and they have every right to question your travel intentions. Check the revision issued today:



It clearly mentions that unrestricted movement is allowed for the next phase. As long as they officially term this as a lockdown, there are still some or the other restrictions in place. Even during no lockdown, police have cracked down on superbikes on highways, so now its even more obvious. If one is so confident of their rights, then being such a big group they could have stood up and fought against this. But I dont think this was possible due to a legal binding which they got caught in. I read two people didnt pay up the fine. Wonder what was different with them. What did those two do that the rest could not do?

Originally Posted by Added_flavor

Thank you, this is exactly what I wanted to say. There's nothing illegal in the context of the lockdown that any of these guys did. Yes, with regards to traffic laws, many of them might have broken the speed limit. However, since when do the other bikers here follow 50kph limit and the car guys follow whatever the speed limit is?

If it was just traffic offenses they were caught for, it could have been well arguable. What happened was that these guys were rounded up by the police, then they themselves were unsure of the action to take, and some phone calls were made and stuff after which they framed a standard list of offences and fined the bikers against it. If the police really wanted to crackdown on this, it could have got a lot lot bigger right from scrutinizing the bikes for mods till questioning their movement.

[ashwinprakas]

A few friends and fellow enthusiasts were also affected and from a chat with one of them I got to understand that the riders were not a part of a bigger group(as initially assumed) and instead anyone wearing riding gear were simply rounded up and detained at the police station.

I was simply glad that he wasn't manhandled but when he shared his ordeal of being held in a police station along with common criminals for the better part of 6 hours simply because of his interest in personal safety apparel seemed nothing less compared to abuse.

And this guy wasn't even riding a super-bike at the time, he is a matured high mileage enthusiast respected within many motorcycling circles, the polar opposite of the loud piped nuisance creating short fused riders out there.

The actions of the Police is nothing but condemnable in this case if you were to ask me cause I myself have commuted quite a distance after the rules were relaxed being certain to not break any of the guidelines, like many others here would have done to attend to personal needs.

[Juggernaught]

Originally Posted by Juggernaught

Here is a copy of one of the receipts. When asked how the cops could come to the conclusion of over speeding without an interceptor, one of them replied they could judge it just by looking at them

To everyone who's saying the bikers should have never gone out for a ride during lockdown, that would be a different topic altogether because the challan issued doesn't say violation of lockdown norms. And that was all this thread was intended to convey, that the cops didn't have any legal basis to levy a fine in the first place

The cops just gave the reason of over-speeding (without a speed gun or an interceptor to actually prove this) when they were asked the reason for being stopped. And if you notice the pic, the reasons listed are what looks to be Found Dangerous Drive; Over Speed; Disobedience to police

And the last reason can be generalized to mean the same but it clearly is as vague than it could ever be. If the laws are in place to seize the bike or fine a vehicle for flouting lockdown norms, I'm not sure why they had to make everyone wait for over three hours or not just state that directly. Even the article I had posted at the beginning of the link just says cops caught bikers who were racing and nothing about riding during the lockdown. I agree not all bikers would have been riding sensibly. But even if 5 guys out of the 50 are doing so, why should they still be fined? And if the other 45 guys are indeed speeding why not just place an interceptor there and catch them legally. Clearly there would be no questions asked if something like that was done.

I feel because of the cases of mishaps caused by a few guys with these powerful machines, anyone who owns a superbike or is into riding in general is usually seen as a disruptive element in the society.

[Mik]

This is one of those things I can't really take a side.

I live very close to Hoskote off the old madras road and every Sunday I see the 'superbikers' do crazy speeds. Initially the going was good for them but then the cops started catching them.
Well the cops are a bit obtuse when it comes to dealing with this but that is what it is.
For every responsible biker, there is this crazy dude who spouts all this ATGATT (all the gear all the time) gyan but rides like a maniac.
Too many such vlogging channels on youtube with raving boy racers egging them on.

[Juggernaught]

Originally Posted by Vasuki

Here is the YouTube video by one of the affected biker, Mr. Gurby Dhar. According to him almost 50 SBK's were seized by the local police. He says supercars and bikers with lady pillions were let off.

This has become a nuisance all over the country where the officials usually harass the easier targets to make some quick bucks. It's high time we as a community take some stand against this nonsense.

Also if you see the video here at 2:30, it is clear they are letting supercars pass through. It would be a strange world indeed where people driving in porsches can be categorized as essential travelers but bikers on the other hand can be seen as creating nuisance

I understand two wrongs don't make a right but at the same time the laws should remain uniform to all and not selectively applied.

[Sutripta]

The advice I have been giving to people in my neck of the woods is that be careful. After all the cops have been without 'income' for two months, and are likely to be hungry.

Sutripta

[Added_flavor]

Originally Posted by audioholic

If you read the line which says "The following activities are permitted with restrictions" and hence it doesnt mean people can go on rides without a purpose. Even in the media releases they had mentioned that citizens should travel for essential needs only, but cant find an order. But I have repeatedly seen this in media that only essential travel is permitted. The police still have the power to take this action as long as the restrictions are in place. Of course, you can take out your superbike for groceries, but you should be able to justify your case when a concerned authority asks. I dont think they could have justified going to Hassan to buy milk. There are still checkposts outside of Bangalore and they have every right to question your travel intentions.

Disagree Sir!

The restrictions you are pointing at are referring to "Containment Zones" only that are expected to be barricaded and sealed inside out. They are definitely not on an NH.

There was a phase where you had to prove the legality of your travel in the form of medical or other documentation. But that's NOT NEEDED in lockdown 4.0 as there is no restriction on intra-state movement of vehicles.

With respect to media hearsay, lesser said the better. Especially the local channels. We both know it.

Below is one more official document that corroborates the one shared by Sujai. This is clearly referring to lockdown 4.0.



Moreover, from the videos posted by those who were present, it is clear that there was no mention of lockdown violation or anything on those lines. So I think there's no point debating this anymore.

Originally Posted by audioholic

Even during no lockdown, police have cracked down on superbikes on highways, so now its even more obvious. If one is so confident of their rights, then being such a big group they could have stood up and fought against this.

They were NOT a single group who knew each other. These were random groups of people who were perceived to be a single group by the cops. How would they suddenly unite when they're strangers to each other and they are insecure and desperate to reach home?

Originally Posted by audioholic

I read two people didn't pay up the fine. Wonder what was different with them. What did those two do that the rest could not do?

Two reasons. One, they genuinely stood their ground as they hadn't done anything illegal. Two, the cops had already filled their quota for the day from the rest of the 47 guys and couldn't care less if these 2 didn't pay up.

In a nutshell, this wasn't anything to do with the Covid situation, nor was it anything ethical and legal. It was a clear case of extortion by the cops possibly fueled by the local MLA's ego as the video claims. Period.

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by Added_flavor

In a nutshell, this wasn't anything to do with the Covid situation, nor was it anything ethical and legal. It was a clear case of extortion by the cops possibly fueled by the local MLA's ego as the video claims. Period.

Considering the present situation, even if one wants to deny, it is apparent that the Lockdown for sure was a catalyst to what has happened. Otherwise, on a normal day, one does not see police presence to this extent where you are being pulled over.

Secondly, I would like to ask here as to how confident (forget comfortable) are each one of us to go for such rides/drives on a highway in groups today? I would like to admit that I am not unless I am alone.

There are claims that this wasn't a group activity. The comments section of the YouTube video show how one of the riders was lucky enough to wake up late and miss this ride on the fateful day although he was invited. Even if this was a small group of 10, it is still something I wouldn't want to be part of given the present situation.

You are on bikes, no backpacks indicating you will return back, on an empty highway on a weekend when lockdown is still in force amid relaxations during the day - Well, the cops know you are their easy target.

In general there is no such policing on this section except election time. However, such checkposts have come up at various locations across highways post lockdown was announced and the cops will stop you and can ask you about your reason for travel.

This one is from the same highway, and during lockdown 4.0:

Originally Posted by fast_elegance

Just before the Hassan toll, there was a checkpoint where they made us go through the shamiyana that was put up. But the police over there did not collect any details. I am guessing it was because my car is KA19. My bro in law who was in another car KA03 had to provide details.

Even if one is riding till Kunigal, it means you are hopping from Bangalore Urban to Bangalore Rural, Ramanagara and then Tumkur Districts! Despite no restrictions on inter district travel, these barricades are still active to check travellers.

Knowing this, even with a DL that belongs to my home district of Hassan including my address, I wasn't keen to drive with all the urge that I had since the past few days.

Now coming to the penalty part. I clearly said in the my first post that the cops used this as an opportunity and nothing else and this is totally wrong.

For violations raised for overspeeding, I would say one can still contest that. I have in 2012 successfully got my 300 INR refunded by Bangalore Traffic Police after relentless follow-ups only via emails. This was when I was fined for overspeeding on BETL and upon paying my fine I realised they had not even captured my car on their screen!! I have posted this entire experience on this forum but unable to locate that right now.

Never ever in my past 2 posts I have even doubted the way these bikes were rode but I would still reiterate the very fact that such group rides be avoided at least till further relaxations are in place. The cops would always see even 5 such bikes together as a group and it will be difficult to argue with them and convince them that you are not part of it.

If at all you want to ride, pick an odd day and ride alone. I am more than sure the experience will be different.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Here is an article from Bangalore Mirror - Don’t join the joyride

On Saturday, around 61 bikers from Bengaluru were caught near Solur on Bengaluru-Hassan highway and were booked for breaking lockdown norms. The bikers had to wait for hours in the police station before they were booked for cases under various violations and were released after paying a fine.

“During a lockdown, only essential travel is allowed. Additionally, we have received many complaints about bikers speeding. Those caught were seen riding way beyond permissible limits. So, following complaints, we decided to seize the bikes."

Police stopped them for violating lockdown restrictions (which can't be legally fined - because there is no such restriction on paper), and then charged them under 'various violations'.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by Added_flavor

Disagree Sir!
The restrictions you are pointing at are referring to "Containment Zones" only that are expected to be barricaded and sealed inside out. They are definitely not on an NH.

There was a phase where you had to prove the legality of your travel in the form of medical or other documentation. But that's NOT NEEDED in lockdown 4.0 as there is no restriction on intra-state movement of vehicles.

Permitted with restrictions, except in Containment Zone. Which means in the containment zone the activity is not permitted at all, whereas in the other areas it is permitted but in a restricted manner. Of course, the exact restrictions are not mentioned explicitly, but it does give a hint that not everything is allowed. If so it would be a lockdown right?

Originally Posted by Added_flavor

Two reasons. One, they genuinely stood their ground as they hadn't done anything illegal. Two, the cops had already filled their quota for the day from the rest of the 47 guys and couldn't care less if these 2 didn't pay up.

In a nutshell, this wasn't anything to do with the Covid situation, nor was it anything ethical and legal. It was a clear case of extortion by the cops possibly fueled by the local MLA's ego as the video claims. Period.

This is where the contradiction lies. It is of course obvious that the cops are no saints and they were looking for someone to target. The catalyst was the restrictions due to lockdown and the pressure from locals. But if one had a genuine case and this was illegal, then after so much of people gathered and it reached the media, there would have been something that would stand in the favour of the police. Else they would have been let them off when things escalated to this level. This topic of the Hassan highway cops is not new to either of us since we have discussed about this quite a few times. But its quite apparent that there is something amiss which the bikers dont share in the video. If two people stood ground and came out without paying up, then maybe they were able to convince the cops that they were not a part of the bigger group and the police actually believed their story. But if you see the video, the start of the video easily shows 20+ guys starting the ride.

Lets agree that while the cops are no saints, the bikers who went in such a group and for no purpose are neither. If they were completely doing legal stuff, then more of them would have come out with a chat with the police.

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

"During a lockdown, only essential travel is allowed. Additionally, we have received many complaints about bikers speeding. Those caught were seen riding way beyond permissible limits. So, following complaints, we decided to seize the bikes."

And this is exactly what I have referred to right from my first response. Whether MHA or state guidelines, media including twitter handles have been requesting anyone to "avoid non-essential travel" and this being reiterated during every phase of lockdown.

You have no business to be there on a highway on a joyride or whatever the media wants to call it when the lockdown is very much in place. And then when you realise that there are many individuals like you on such a ride along with few other smaller groups, it is exactly this that becomes the classic case of BEING AT THE WRONG PLACE ON A WRONG DAY AND A WRONG TIME!!

No matter how much one wants to deny that there is no connection to lockdown and the incident that happened, it for sure acted as a catalyst and gave the cops all the more powers to make the bikers an easy target.

Would you have done that solo, picking a different day of a week, on a hot afternoon, I am more than sure the story would have been different, or rather, there would be no story like this to share at all.

Lastly, on being fined for all such violations, contest that and take it up. I have done that and got my money back. It is not new that cops find amusing ways to somehow penalize you under various sections if they don't find any relevant one.