[ksanjee]

Interesting thread. My 48 is coming up on it's first service soon and I will share my riding experience, pre and post sales experience.

I basically have learned to be patient and eliminate my dependency on the dealer for the most part. Even simple things like oil filter wrench (14flute/76mm) and exhaust header gaskets can take a while - dealers did not help me with this and I decided to find the right source myself. I am able to get responses faster directly from S&S, Arlen Ness, HD dealers in the US than here.

I installed the VH Short Shots with Quiet Baffles and added Arlen big sucker air filter and remapped with FP3 - did NOT auto tune.

It has been running flawless and am enjoying every trip - including one in pouring rain. Most of my riding experience since early 90s has been on Ducati superbikes (apart from short stints with 2 Pasos, FZR600 and baby Ninja) - I had the privilege of riding them on tracks and really really good roads in biker havens in the US.

Here, Concern #1 is road clearance - going slow at an angle and finding the right place to cross has helped. I will have to figure out the right suspension upgrade - but I can live with it for now.

Will do the service myself here at home in Mysore. Got all the stuff needed over the past several weeks.

I will leave you with this pic from today's ride.

[alphadog]

Harley had first mover advantage in India and also had an instantly recognisable brand name, but then they lost the plot after the initial days.

I too had jumped onto this bandwagon, buying an Iron 883- in 2015, with starry eyes and hopes of joining the HOG and their group rides. I soon realised though that although the group weekend rides were ok, rest of the ownership experience was not. The bike was unrefined, poor brakes and suspension, vibration galore and expensive accessories and spares. I did end up adding on a hell of a lot of accessories, including exhausts, air filters, suspension upgardes, FP3 fuel management and such like, before being served an ultimatum by my better half, which threatened a roof above my head and also in the process realising that this was a bottom-less pit.

With so many other bike brands in the market who make bikes that are leagues ahead in terms of quality, I sold off my bike 10 months ago.
If someone asks me my advice regards getting a Harley - I would dissuade them from getting one, if their intention is for biking pleasure. If it was for getting the brand or for the macho feeling one gets with the V twin thumping away, then by all means go for it.
I guess that is the problem with the brand. They have not evolved with the times and the have also priced themselves out of the market. There is only so many suckers who will buy into their marketing about 'freedom' and 'brotherhood' and such like, and the numbers of those types are ever decreasing.

It would be a shame however, if the brand was to disappear completely. Hopefully another bike company can purchase them and do a turnaround. Wonder if RE is interested in stepping up?.

Cheerio!

[Frankenstein]

Talking about what I experienced in India, having owned and own a lot of motorcycle brands, I feel HARLEY is being bashed and unfair treatment is being meted out.

The 1st time big bike buyer, who is coming from a commuter bike, buys a Harley (mostly Sportster) for the brand etc., soon realizes all the issues and chickens out.

He complains of heat. Come on, it's not your Splendor or Pulsar. Compare it with other big bikes - Hayabusa, R1, Triumphs, Ducatis, all heat up dude. In traffic they heat up. That is why a riding pant is recommended. You can't ride them wearing your chinos or shorts.

Bad suspension is another complaint. Same goes for Triumph, superbikes and others except adventure bikes. So what bike is it being compared to? Yes, even Kawasaki ZX10R crashes in pot-holes. Ground clearance. Most of the big bikes hit big potholes.

Vibration. Come on, change to a higher gear. Now, do you want a long stroke V-twin to rev till 12,000 rpm? Harley does very good speeds on the highway - a little less than 200 km/h. So, where is the vibration at cruising speeds which are much lower? If you want an inline 4, then you should know that before buying a Harley. First learn how different types of engines behave - single, twin, parallel twin, boxer twin, square 4, inline 4, inline 3 etc.

Bad brakes. Yes, agreed - on some basic models, which has been corrected now.

Expensive accessories. Well, why should you buy from them? You always have aftermarket options. Oh, by the way, suspension and aftermarket exhaust of good quality are equally expensive or more expensive for other brands.

e.g.

Brocks 4x2x1 for Ninjas - around 1.5 lakh. Vance and Hines 2x1 for Harley - under a lakh.

Ohlins for Japs - is more expensive than progressive for Harley.

Handling. Harleys need practice and time. Won't comment on that.

Regarding the price, again, compared to what? Kawasaki starts from 6 lakhs. So does Harley. Triumph is not less either.

Unreliable. Nonsense. This was picked up reading online stuff. It was from the 80s. All Harley are more reliable than other brands if not equal. In fact, for small glitches, even BMWs and Triumphs fail. Kawasakis and Hayabusas too. In fact, the softails are built to last generations. Can't say that for the Japs.

Regarding the HOG stuff, you don't have to go. It's all marketing thrash in India. None of our uncles know what a V-twin is. It's all for show.

When you ride long on superbikes, 50% of the time you can't ride fast. Feel like going slow to relax and enjoy nature? With Harley, you can enjoy slow riding too or maintain good speed if needed with a screen there is good wind protection. Looks and sounds like a million bucks.

Adventure bikes: I find them like bloated pregnant cows. Make no sense when most of the highways in India are 4 lane. What's with the Versys? No look, no exhaust note, NO POWER, no character. Only a good suspension.

Service. Kawasaki and others - I guess here itself there are a lot of complaints. Small dirty cheap showrooms, no better than a Hero showroom and they too don't have ready parts for your ride. We have to wait. Kawasaki doesn't have an air filter here. Harley service is top class. Guess there is a thread on Triumph issues.

[ksanjee]

Originally Posted by Frankenstein

Regarding the HOG stuff, you dont have to go , its all marketing thrash in India, none of our uncles know what a v twin is, its all for show.

Haha fully agree. I am a solo rider for most part. Don't really care for being a club member or rides arranged by a brand. My friends told me that they could never imagine me on a Harley. But here I am and loving it. I still love my RD and my Ducati for what they mean to me. It's a pity that "riders" are hoping/wishing for a brand to die.

[bf1983]

Originally Posted by Frankenstein

He complains of heat, common , its not your splendor or pulsar, compare it with other big bikes, Hyabusa ,R1, Triumphs, Ducatis , all heat up dude , in traffic they heat up. That is why a riding pant is recommended,, you cant ride them wearing your chinos or shorts.

Most people aren't talking about the big Harleys heating up. That is to be expected. Even the Street 750 heats up a ton. I actually moved away from a Harley Street 750 rider that I was next to in traffic as the heat from his engine was making me feel uncomfortable when I was 3 feet away from him. Its one of the primary reasons I didn't even bother doing a test ride of the Street as even though they have the name 'Street' they heat up a lot while ridden in traffic common to most Indian cities which makes them poor choices as an everyday bike. They are far better suited for the highways.

Originally Posted by Frankenstein

Bad suspension is another complaint, same goes with Triumph , superbikes and others except adv bikes.So what bike is it being compared to , yes even kawasaki zx10r crashes in pot holes, Ground clearance, most of the big bikes hit big potholes.

Again its not correct to compare a Harley to superbikes. A superbike is far far far faster than any Harley and at such speeds you need really good suspension in order to ride stable. Compare the Harley 883 to even the misnomer from Harleys own line up - the Street 750. The Street 750 has a far better suspension for Indian roads. I didn't have a big ride on the 883 but the short ride I did have was bone jarring. You can feel everything from the road transmitted to your spine. Not a very nice feeling. I haven't ridden any of the bigger Harleys but if the 883 was any indication then the suspension is not at all suitable for Indian roads. Yes you can modify the Harley suspension but thats an additional expense. In stock form the Harley 883 has very stiff suspension and its a big drawback.

Originally Posted by Frankenstein

Vibration, common change to a higher gear, now do you want a long stroke v twin to rev till 12000 rpm?? Harley does very good speeds on Highway little less than 200km/hr, so where is the vibration on cruising speeds which are much lower. IF you want an inline 4 then you should know that before buying Harley. First learn how different type of engines behave, single , twin , parallel twin, boxer twin , square 4, inline 4, inline 3 etc etc.

Ok I can understand some engines have character and so I will not contest this point though personally I don't care at all for vibrating engines. But to each their own.

Originally Posted by Frankenstein

Bad brakes, yes agreed on some basic models which has been corrected now.

Expensive accessories. Well why should you buy from them, you always have aftermarket options, oh by the way suspension and aftermarket exhaust of good quality are equally expensive or more for other brands, EXAMPLE

Brocks 4x2x1 for Ninja s around 1.5 lakh, Vance and hines 2x1 for harley , under a lakh,

ohlins for Japs, is more expensive than progressive for Harley.

Harley thankfully did work on the Street 750 brakes and lets face it even Japanese bikes had bad brakes earlier. The Er6n that I rode had God awful brakes. That said braking on the Street bikes even now is nowhere near great. Just adequate.

Originally Posted by Frankenstein

Handling, Harley s need practice and time , wont comment on that.

Yes Harleys are cruisers at the end of the day and I don't know of too many good handling cruisers.

Originally Posted by Frankenstein

Regarding price, again compared to what, Kawasaki also starts from 6 lakhs so does Harley.., Triumph are not less either.

Unreliable, nonsense, this was picked up reading online stuff , it was from the 80s, all Harley are more reliable than other brands if not equal. Infact for small glithes , even BMWs and Triuphs fail, kawasaki busa too. Infact the softail s are built to last generations , cant say that for the Japs .

Regarding the HOG stuff, you dont have to go , its all marketing thrash in India, none of our uncles know what a v twin is, its all for show.

When i ride long on Superbikes, 50 % of the time you cant ride fast, feeling like going slow to relax and enjoy the nature, with Harley, you can enjoy slow riding too , also maintain good speed if needed, with a screen there is good wind protection. Looks and sounds like a million bucks.

I won't say Harleys are overpriced. The Street 750, Street Rod 750 are definitely not overpriced for sure. However if you look at the first of the older models the Iron 883 its a very hard sell. Compare it to what I feel is the best suited competition - the Triumph T100. Now the T100 is cheaper, more powerful, has better features, has a cooler running engine, has far better suspension, weighs a good 30 kg less, comes with a 2 person seat for no extra charge while for the 883 you need to pay to be able to get a pillion seat. My friend was looking for a retro styled bike and he test rode both these bikes. It was frankly a no contest. Luckily he went to the Harley showroom first and after that he went to the Triumph showroom and immediately booked the bike.

I too was looking for a entry level naked bike and the Street Rod was for some time on my radar. However I rode my friends bike for a short distance and I immediately dropped the idea. I needed a single bike solution for occasional city riding and for breakfast rides with the one off short tour. The Street Rod looked amazing and had a good engine but that was about it. It was really really heavy and I had a hard time moving it out of the parking area in reverse. Other than that even for a short ride the engine heat was very prominent so riding in city traffic didn't seem like an appealing option with that bike. I finally bought a Z650. For a similar price as the Street Rod I get a bike that runs far far cooler. I once forgot I was wearing shorts and I had to take my Z650 for a 10 km ride in the afternoon. During that ride the heat was felt but never bad. I have ridden the Z650 for over an hour and half in heavy traffic and I never found the heat bothersome at any point. Power wise the Z650 is far better and the brakes are impressive. The only area where the Street Rod far beats the Z650 was in ground clearance. And mind you this was comparing it to a modern Harley. If you compare it to any of the air cooled Harleys the Z650 is faster, lighter, smoother and more flickable than any stock Harley.

Originally Posted by Frankenstein

Advs, i find them like bloated pregnant cows, makes no sense when most of the highways in India are 4 lane . Whats with the versys, no look, no exhaust note, NO POWER , no character , only a good suspension.

Agree with you that looks wise ADVs won't win any beauty contests but there are plenty of single lane state highways and roads all over. Advs are immensely practical in Indian conditions because they have large fuel tanks to ride long distances, soft suspension to handle bad roads and even though they are big bikes they are still a lot lighter than most Harleys and they can easily do light off roading too.

However I am not sure what you mean by the Versys having no power ? It's faster than any stock Harley ever made so what makes you say that it has no power when it's clearly a faster bike.

Originally Posted by Frankenstein

Service, Kawasaki and others, i guess here itself there are a lot of complaints, small dirty cheap showrooms, no better than a hero showroom, they too dont have ready parts for your ride, we have to wait, Kawasaki dosent have an airfilter here . Harley service is top class . Guess there is a thread on Triumph issues.

I am not well versed with bike servicing so cannot comment on that part. Though the friend who owns the 883 has told me he has had a good experience at the service center.

[bj96]

Originally Posted by Otto

... An 1800CC milwaukee engine that can't produce more than 80bhp is a disgrace to engineering.

A 4000 kilogram Elephant can't even manage 50 km/h while 60 times lighter Cheetah can go 100 km/h. Disgrace to The Creator??. My Fat Boy can do some obscene speeds, I can't mention here, at a much lesser RPM than a 4-Cyl scorcher. Yes Harleys are not sprinters. They are never meant to be. The goal and physics of Harley Engines (for that matter any Cruiser) is different than a sports bike or "Sports/Adv" tourer.

Originally Posted by Frankenstein

....
... now do you want a long stroke v twin to rev till 12000 rpm?? Harley does very good speeds on Highway little less than 200km/hr, so where is the vibration on cruising speeds which are much lower. IF you want an inline 4 then you should know that before buying Harley. First learn how different type of engines behave, single , twin , parallel twin, boxer twin , square 4, inline 4, inline 3 etc...

Unreliable, nonsense, this was picked up reading online stuff...

Very rightly said Frankenstein. Most commentators appear to have neither owned nor ridden Harleys enough. I get a hint of angoor khatte hain (sour grapes) from some comments made here

Talk of reliability- here is the odo of my Fat boy achieved in less than two years.



No out of turn service. No breakdowns. Only tires replaced around 17,000 kilo-meters for safety. I took him to places (and came back w/o breakdowns) where many adv riders with lot lighter bikes just dream about. Some glimpses:


Over 40 kilometres (one way) of dusty mud-track, under construction road, 2000 kilometres away from home, in Nepal.


Gandikota Fort in AP when the last 10 Km approach road was't there


Return from an unknown location 700 kilometres away from home.


Almost 30 degrees steep climb near Bhuleshwar with 370 Kgs kerb weight


One of the many solo rides

Originally Posted by Haroon

... HD garage queens to other queens...

Hehe.. talking of Garage Queen? Here is a queen of the entire apartment complex which has over one thousand dwellers.


Kids often pull up his apron to take a peek in the garage


Adults fiddle and click selfies on his saddle, when he is out drying in the sun on Sundays


Hotel parking staff can't stop admiring him... such is the Harley magnet

Businesses may come and go, they may fail, they may succeed... let's focus on strategies and economics, not bike bashing or colouring riders or their choices.

Cheers,
BJ

[knrn]

Adding my two cents. Though not a Harley owner.

At one point of time even I was crazy for superbikes and speed. The ninja looked so mean and razor sharp- it can bleed you with the looks only. Haha.

Time moved- I needed a bike for my daily commute. Somehow bought a bullet and then the bug bit me. Now comparing bullet to a Harley is something far beyond the apples to oranges phrase but I want to delve in on the experience.

These big bore bikes have two very impressive things- torque and weight. You can't reverse a Harley true. You can't reverse a bullet too. It's tall. But once it starts moving it moves on its own. Balances itself. And the torque- you don't even have to rev too hard. And it is so stable at high speeds. Plus one doesn't have to break his back to ride one. I had the opportunity to ride a 48. A fellow owner in my apartment building. The ride and sound was magical.

Now to each his own but the sad reality is that first these bikes are expensive to own and maintain. Secondly dealerships are too far and few. Heck there is no dealership in Jalandhar. The nearest one is chandigarh. If they had a wide dealer network then perhaps things would be little different. But I like the low rpm upright cruising these big bores have to offer.

So to call a company ending would be too full of prejudice. It has Its own likes and charm. I for one would want to own one. If only there was showroom nearby.

[ksanjee]

I rode to our farm near Nagarahole which includes 15kms of dirt/rugged roads with some steep sections. It was OK. Since less than 10% of my riding will be on such roads, I am not too worried.

[turbo]

Originally Posted by knrn

Heck there is no dealership in Jalandhar. The nearest one is chandigarh. If they had a wide dealer network then perhaps things would be little different. But I like the low rpm upright cruising these big bores have to offer.
It has Its own likes and charm. I for one would want to own one. If only there was showroom nearby.

Grand Trunk Harley-Davidson, Ludhiana

https://www.harley-davidson.com/in/e...dealer_id=4065

https://www.facebook.com/grandtrunkharleydavidson/

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Have...30.8506948!3e0

[Otto]

Originally Posted by bj96

A 4000 kilogram Elephant can't even manage 50 km/h while 60 times lighter Cheetah can go 100 km/h. Disgrace to The Creator??. My Fat Boy can do some obscene speeds, I can't mention here, at a much lesser RPM than a 4-Cyl scorcher. Yes Harleys are not sprinters. They are never meant to be. The goal and physics of Harley Engines (for that matter any Cruiser) is different than a sports bike or "Sports/Adv" tourer.

Sadly, and I feel this with a lot of people these days, you mistake power with speed and bring in random analogies - almost like there's a handbook of retorts out there somewhere that you'll are referring to.

There is, in my opinion a pure and simple relation to power and displacement. Which means, every engine today must be able to produce a minimum amount of power if it were thoughfully designed.

Making an 1800cc engine to produce only 80bhp makes absolutely so sense at all, you're gaining nothing from the bigger block that would with a smaller engine. So, makes no sense is exactly what I feel the Harley davidson's mantra is.
I wish it had someone like Tim "The Toolman" Taylor at the helm.


Do also feel free to discuss your attire when your cruising and if you don't feel discomfort in a certain area after a few minutes of riding.

I don't consider Harleys to be anything special. Our own Royal Enfield is a wonderful example of that.

[bf1983]

Coming back to topic. I think Harley should look strongly at Triumph to see what they did. If you look at the Bonneville t100 for instance it still has almost everything the old one had. Spoked wheels, fake carburettor, a good splash of chrome etc. So the bike looks like an old bike but sit on it and you will find it's about as modern as they come. The T100 has a feather light clutch, the engine while looking old fashioned with it's fake carburetor is actually liquid cooled and doesn't heat up a lot like some other big cc bikes. The engine itself has tons of low end torque but at the same time enough power to really thrill newer riders. The spoked wheels look old fashioned but they are modern tubeless tyres and the suspension is not terribly stiff which makes for a comfortable ride. Aside from the Bonneville Triumph has other bikes which simply aren't a part of their old heritage. The Daytona 675 and the Street triple are both completely modern bikes which look like they are produced from a totally different company than triumph. Harley have stuck with air cooled cruisers from decades and they should try to follow up on the new Street launches which are their first liquid cooled engines and make some new bikes which are much more modern, lighter and heat up less. That Street rod 750 is a good launch in that aspect though they should shed some of its weight down the line.

Royal Enfield also shed some of its image as an old school heavy vibey bike and instead gave us the Interceptor which is smooth as butter and has a sweet exhaust note to boot. The design is still old school and looks like a British bike from every angle. Harley needs to try new things or else it won't be long before they are either bought up by another company or they severely downsize their business.

[ksanjee]

Originally Posted by bf1983

Coming back to topic.

Indeed. Thank you for bringing us back on track. We can be arm-chair strategy consultants to HD top management - if they care to listen. I don’t believe adding vanity carburettors or spoke wheels or more power is going to solve anything on it’s own right. Liquid cooling may be a small piece of the puzzle. I have followed Ducati pretty closely but this data about Harley I had to dig up.

Harley’s biggest market is back home in the US (>60% of sales is generated there - this was obvious)

So they need to fix things back home.

If you look at the breakdown of US population (give or take) it comes down the following groups:

BBoomer: 56 - 76 (76M); Ave net worth of 1M
Gen X: 41 - 55 (82M); Ave net worth of 290k
Millennials: 26 - 40 (73M); 76k

Male to female ratio overall is ~1-1 (Current HD riders are predominantly males)

Let’s look at how Harley has been doing in the home market in sales volume over the past 5y

1986: Went public - baby boomers living it up

2006: 260k shipments (Hit PEAK)

2007: Recession hit them hard

2009: $55M in losses - tried appealing to younger generations, women and emerging markets and failed.

2014: Profits back up to 850M:: Tried to appeal to its core customers with larger bikes but not enough. Then the downward spiral.

2015: 168k
2016: 161k
2017: 148k
2018: 133k
2019: 126k

I could not pull out data on the most popular models and the most profitable models for these years - but street 750 would be anyone's guess in terms of volume. Contribution to profit margins may be 1200s or M8 (from 2016)

Digressing a little here since Triumph is mentioned in this thread. I attended an event in northern California (La Honda area) hosted by Michael Lock who was the CEO of DNA (Ducati North America) at that time. He had joined DNA recently (in 2003) I was accompanied by Sridhar Vembu (CEO of Zoho who was my boss then - I mention his name because he is a legend when it comes to re-invention) - he came with me to learn about my interest in bikes and listen to a seasoned sales guy. Lock had a successful tenure at Triumph. Cycle World magazine ran a cover page that said "British bikes are back" - referring to Norton and Triumph. He is credited with bringing Triumph back into the US (in mid 90s)

At that time he joined Ducati, they were suffering. Later model 996 and 748 series were plagued by rocker arm problems. Ducati outsourced their plating to a new third party and the rockers would start flaking. Very expensive fix - take all of them out (16x), send them out for replating (mega cycles in the US) and put them back in - assuming one did not ride with the flakes floating around for a long time. Ducati paid for the fix as a goodwill gesture but you had to go through some hassles. This became the talk of town (in the silicon valley and ironically, DNA HQ was in Cupertino close to Apple) on forums and meetings among Ducatisti. You could buy an R1 for a lot less and claim-to-fame on spec sheets that your bike makes more power for less money and weighs less and lapped quicker at race tracks (similar analogy holds between Harley and Triumph). Ducati concluded it’s 916 series with the 998R. During this time, Ducati had also introduced it’s testastretta deep sump motor starting with the 996R. This was a significant upgrade that overcame limitations of the desmoquattro. I mention these tidbits since Harley introduced the M8.

Now enter the dreaded 999 saga. A new flagship model release is a very expensive journey and sales are expected to last for years. The 999 and 749 series almost killed Ducati. Superbikes enjoy higher margins and the 999 series was simply not moving. New electronics, adjustable foot position and even race track success was not enough. Some 749s also had the dreaded stalling problem (like Triumph.)

Lock had his work cut out for him.

He talked about his weekends. Saturday mornings he would ride his Ducati Monster hunting GSXRs in the hills of Northern California (those who know this area will know Alice’s restaurant where bikers congregate) He had relocated from the UK. He said he loved his job - where else could he go GSXR hunting and get paid for it. His intent was to chat up riders on other superbikes at gas stations and understand how he could make them consider a Ducati. North America is a big market for Ducati (like Porsche or other premium brands) - during his time, DNA set record sales. I knew the owners of a couple of premium Ducati dealers fairly well. They all had a huge respect for the guy.

Lock's focus was branding and dealer network while nurturing Monsters and Multi-stradas. Ducati also had ST2, ST3 and ST4 (Sport touring) which really did not do well - they were meant to be successors of the Paso series. But Lock had nothing do with the development of the Monster or Multi. I have a brochure I had picked up from a Ducati dealer in 92. There are 3 models - super sports (750/900), Sport Touring (907 i.e.) and Superbike (851) - but they are a different company now although racing pedigree is intact (with the addition GP racing) - where would Ducati be without the monster and multi? Did they make a difference? Looking at the proliferation of Ducati models, I would think it did and in a big way.

On the contrary, I saw the V-ROD during a motorcycle show when it was launched (Porsche design, liquid cooling and all that.) HD even raced in AMA with the VR1000 with AMA legend Duhamel and ex-Ducati racer Picotte with one victory so close but not to be). I have watched them in action live - they definitely sounded like LOUD hot rods. Performance did not seem to matter for the HD clientele since the V-ROD was a non-factor. One of the main challenges on the V-ROD was to determine where to put the radiator. They did not want to stick an ugly piece on the front of the frame and have tubes running in and out. I read about this in CW or MC. I agree with them. Even on a bike with full fairings, radiators can ruin a bike’s looks.

Of course V-ROD came out during a time when Harley riders had a definition of what a Harley should be. I actually loved it then since I was young and sought technology and performance as an important aspect of motorcycles. I would not buy it now though. I would go somewhere else for that. Surprisingly, my teenage son has not asked for a test ride on the 48. He would have, had it been a Panigale.

Another stark difference that comes to mind is Harley is sold at HD dealerships. Ducati and Triumph among others are sold alongside other brands (at least in the US) I have visited every Ducati dealership in California when I was selling rearsets, triple clamps and other parts I used to make. Ducati was alongside Triumph, Guzzi, Aprilia and in a few cases even Honda. Is that good or bad? It’s good if you can bait a customer who came for a Triumph and switch them to a Harley. Not the other way around.

Allright a lot of ramble without any actionable things for HD management.

What is annoying the loyalists who have made Harley what it is - Harley Tax (profiteering on merchandise and spares) and Warranty voiding with the attempt to lock customers into using Screaming Eagle (let it be based on merit.) Don’t alienate your baby boomer customers - because they can influence their next generation friends, family and colleagues - they are your only brand ambassadors with all the negativity from people who have not even owned or ridden a Harley.

Another Peter Fonda or Terminator performance is unlikely to give Harley a boost. Don’t wait !

An expensive electric bike will do nothing to save you. It's not pretty.

Can you get someone who really cares about Harley and it’s customers and who has a track record in this industry to lead the company. Interestingly, I interviewed with a Harley employee when I was applying for my MBA program in the US. He gave me a glowing reference but I ended up attending a different school. My obsession at that time was Ferrari with Ducati being a distant 2nd.

In closing, I know a friend of mine who rides a Harley in the US. He has had it for 20 years with over 1L kms on it without any major issues. I rode with him on a couple of occasions on my 851. We would start, I would disappear and then we would meet at a coffee shop. My 851 has had 2 owners since (I still keep in touch with the current owner who offered me to take it out for a ride in Santa Cruz mountains !) while the Harley has had the same owner. While I lived in San Diego in the mid 90s, a colleague of mine had bought a used Road King and paid as much as a new one would cost. I did not understand why. There was a long wait period. Times change. Another Brit colleague owned a Triumph Thunderbird Sport. We had a 907, a Road king and a Tbird. I loved the big Daytona 1200.

I know this hardly qualifies as a resurrection plan. Let's hear from those who have owned and ridden them and those who have strong opinions.

[animeshb]

I also feel that Harley got a little too much bashing on this thread and perhaps unfairly. If we talk about the buying experience of any Luxury (or expensive than the norm) brand in India, it is a hit or a miss. We tend to get offended really easily - we need to understand that Sales people also need to make a sale to make a living and some of them are too myopic to look beyond that. Also, it's not just Harley, almost all Big Bike Manufacturers are struggling in India (I probably need more data to corroborate my statement). While the Triumphs are well engineered, availability of Spares is a PITA. If you look at Big Bike brands, best ownership experience is with Harley (at least in Delhi-NCR), and Triumph (no thanks to One Triumph) and Ducati are the worst. This is based on no data, and seems like a consensus among fellow bikers.

I ride a 2018 Honda CBR650F and I ride with a group of guys who I call brothers. We have a mix of Bikes but primarily big (and "Fat") Harleys, Triumphs and RE Twins. Only a few of us have different category of bikes like mine. We are majorly Sunday riders and almost all of us on the other side of 40. While I agree that the Harleys are not technically the most superior, they have road presence, sound heavenly, and really torque-y. And the guys who have them love their bikes (and yes, continue spending a lot of monies on accessories). I have already started looking for my next ride, and I will steer clear of Harleys as my preferences are different, I like things fast and well engineered. But for some reason, being exotic is fairing quite high in my list along with practicality. When I was buying the CBR, I did try out a few Harleys but after a couple of test rides, I knew they are not my thing though I still like the way they look.

Peace to all!

[knrn]

Originally Posted by turbo

Grand Trunk Harley-Davidson, Ludhiana


]

Hey turbo. Thanks. I checked out the links. Turns out it's a proper showroom. I had the idea that it was a sublet agency/ sub showroom of the chandigarh branch. Thanks again.

[libranof1987]

Barely a decade after its entry, Harley-Davidson Inc. is looking to wind down its assembly operations in the country as a result of weak sales and a lack of visibility for future demand, industry executives said.

The iconic U.S. motorcycle maker has sent out feelers to a few automakers through consultants for a possible outsourcing arrangement using its leased assembly facility at Bawal in Haryana, a person privy to the preliminary talks said.

https://www.thehindu.com/business/In...le32397914.ece