[virkdoc]

Motorrad India needs to pull their socks up.
1) Keep parts in inventory which they know are problematic
2) Stop treating customers like door mats and giving illogical reasoning to the problems
3) Morafibre needed a new rim, so a complete rim should have been sent to him...period
4) Turn around time needs to be FAST! I cant be waiting for 6 weeks for a rear shock. In that period November goes to December and the hills get snowed in and all ride plans go for a toss!
5) If turn around times are long then please give your customer loaner bikes like you do in the USA!

And the emails moralfibre has shown from BMW.....that exactly is their problem....Motorrad gets defensive as if the damn customer is a thief and a liar and as if they are doing a BIG FAVOR BY SELLING HIM A BIKE.
They also need to understand that that many times when you pick up the bike from the workshop its impossible to tell how well the fix has been done. Its only once you ride it a few hundred kilometers does one come to know.

[dkaile]

Getting a Africa Twin ain't solving any issues. It's not the product that's at fault, it's the mindset. So rather than trying to change the mindset of all the superbike dealers I run into, I changed mine and treat them as another regular neighbourhood dealership rather than start expecting premiumness from them from day 1. In India, most premium brands work through a formula that's highly reliant on their dealers and BMW more so. No amount of emails to BMW India gets anything done without the dealers intervention or approval. So in India, as Navpreet said, get self reliant if you really want to enjoy your premium bikes. Otherwise such threads will keep cropping up, I have already seen some for Triumph and lots for Harleys and Kawasakis. Stop listening and believing what your dealership service manager tells you. Rest, I can tell you my experience of the Africa Twin. Near Zero dealer network in whole of North India with only one Big Wings in Haryana at Gurgaon. Do they expect you travelling 4-500 kms for routine work? They wanted me to buy the bike without a test ride and had a smug attitude from their sales rep as if he was doing a favour just booking the bike for me. So, as I said before, they are just as bad or good as any other Premium Bike Dealer and Good Luck to you.

As for other BMW bike owners like me, I bought the bike being fully aware that future services may be 'Bhagwaan Bharose', developed good terms with my dealer's owner and luckily things are panning out for now. May not be so rosy in the future. But I give personal attention to every job done and sit on their heads. I got both my wheels, yes read BOTH my wheels of my brand new Kawasaki Ninja 1000 replaced within 1 week of delivery, which had got bent going over a normal big pot hole on our roads. I was not lucky, I was meticulous and persistent like Navpreet. That is the only way to work with these guys.

Tough luck mate and hope you have better luck with the AT. Cheers...

[virkdoc]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

I will try to pass the link to this thread to few guys, let’s hope they realize the error and do the right thing by changing the complete wheel.

Yes I would agree to that the Chandigarh dealership is very helpful but Motorrad....less said the better

[moralfibre]

Originally Posted by nitrogary

As discussed, let's try a few other options also if you see no light at the end of the tunnel from Bavaria.

Thanks Gary! You've extended more support for fixing the bike than what the dealership has! Will take up on your offer once I see where this goes.

Originally Posted by bf1983

Hope BMW can make things right with your bike cause I don't know who will buy the bike in its current condition if you are serious about selling your bike.

I am not selling the bike in this state! I will obviously do what is right before the next owner gets it.

Originally Posted by virkdoc

Mine is a 2018 GSA and the list of things that have failed on the bike is endless. To name a few...
Motorrad India please be a little more proactive towards your customers. Its not a moped customers have purchased but the most expensive adv bike in the country.

Your issues wouldn't be out of place in say a Royal Enfield which has a far better reliability score than the GS IMO. And their warranty claims are trouble free.

The difference is that an RE costs about 2L give and take a few. The GSA costs 10x that! You surely expect better.

Originally Posted by Turbanator

That’s a new for me. Either dealership or the BMW is sitting on a lot of rims without spokes, that they offered you just the outer.

There was no valid reason to offer without spokes as assembled set as they can’t set true. Are you absolutely sure that you have got a new wheel?

I am guessing that is true because the dealer claims to have replaced 5-6 outer rims. A friend in Bombay also seems to have had the front rim replaced recently. Will post his issue a bit later. But, in summary, I believe the rim was new. I retained the old one. I guess they messed up in their first attempt to true it and the rim went oblong on the axis. Thereafter it has been a downward slide in rectifying the issue.

There was a recall and on some of the earlier complaints in India and they did replaced complete wheels. But later on stopped and started tightening. I don’t think the local dealerships are competent to set the wheels true and the equipment they carry is like what cycle repair shops do.

True that. I didn't believe they were competent either. But, that recall wasn't officially announced. I don't recall seeing any notification to that effect.

...thankfully at Chandigarh, service head for Bike and Car is the same guy and a very helpful fella. He took up appropriately and got an approval. They had an extra set which was put on my bike the same day. Now, I think I have been lucky.

Even the Pune works manager is common between bikes and cars but he is short staffed and unable to extend any support to bikes.

I will try to pass the link to this thread to few guys, let’s hope they realize the error and do the right thing by changing the complete wheel.

Thank you!

Originally Posted by dkaile

Getting a Africa Twin ain't solving any issues. It's not the product that's at fault, it's the mindset. So rather than trying to change the mindset of all the superbike dealers I run into, I changed mine and treat them as another regular neighbourhood dealership rather than start expecting premiumness from them from day 1.

True. I don't expect premiumness or even a coffee. I only expect them to fix an issue I have pointed out.

In India, most premium brands work through a formula that's highly reliant on their dealers and BMW more so. No amount of emails to BMW India gets anything done without the dealers intervention or approval. So in India, as Navpreet said, get self reliant if you really want to enjoy your premium bikes.

I believe if it is not in a company's interest to do business here, then they should pack their bags and leave. They are paid for a job, they better do it. I can be self reliant and service the bike at home in a far better way than what the dealer can. But, then I'll have the sword of warranty dangling on my head.

Otherwise such threads will keep cropping up, I have already seen some for Triumph and lots for Harleys and Kawasakis. Stop listening and believing what your dealership service manager tells you.

Sure, I did but then they appear to know more than most global BMW dealers who would not touch these rims for repair! Secondly, I don't have the luxury of time to run behind these guys to fix a trivial issue which in my books is a simple issue to solve. I value time more than money.

Rest, I can tell you my experience of the Africa Twin. Near Zero dealer network in whole of North India with only one Big Wings in Haryana at Gurgaon. Do they expect you travelling 4-500 kms for routine work? They wanted me to buy the bike without a test ride and had a smug attitude from their sales rep as if he was doing a favour just booking the bike for me. So, as I said before, they are just as bad or good as any other Premium Bike Dealer and Good Luck to you.

I concur but then they also don't go about beating their chest as a premium alternative to anyone. They rollout limited stocks and their customers (whatever few) are very happy with that. I have experienced Wing World mumbai's service and they had a dyno in house alongwith a fully mechanised workshop. The costs are 1/4th with the same level of kit for service and spares. They did not have the sales numbers to justify it but still went all out to ensure customer sat.

As for other BMW bike owners like me, I bought the bike being fully aware that future services may be 'Bhagwaan Bharose', developed good terms with my dealer's owner and luckily things are panning out for now. May not be so rosy in the future. But I give personal attention to every job done and sit on their heads. I got both my wheels, yes read BOTH my wheels of my brand new Kawasaki Ninja 1000 replaced within 1 week of delivery, which had got bent going over a normal big pot hole on our roads. I was not lucky, I was meticulous and persistent like Navpreet. That is the only way to work with these guys.

Congrats, you are probably one of the lucky few and like Navpreet got the inclination to fight it out. I guess I fall short on that and I should resign to my fate

[moralfibre]

Update:

0912/02Nov'20 IST: Received a call from Bavaria Pune's workshop manager requesting a meeting. He did acknowledge that the first attempted repair was botched up and the 2nd one was perfect. But I refused to give in since it doesn't sound right to me.


0929/02Nov'20 IST: Received a call from BMW India's customer care rep Mr. Nikhil Mishra who patched in BMW Motorrad's Amit Keswani wanting to offer a resolution to the issue.

I put two conditions, the bike should be opened up in front of me and the measurements should be shown. I will document those for this thread. Secondly, I won't leave the bike with the dealer if there is any requirement of parts. I will ride back and forth when the parts arrive (if required).

He agreed and said he would call back in 10 minutes. That was 45 minutes ago.

Will keep this group posted.

[dkaile]

Originally Posted by moralfibre

I don't have the luxury of time to run behind these guys to fix a trivial issue which in my books is a simple issue to solve. I value time more than money.

You are probably one of the lucky few and like Navpreet got the inclination to fight it out.

But Sir, what about the time that you are now spending on all these emails and raising it on public forums? Wouldn't it have been better to have spent these 4-5 hours sitting at the dealership truing your wheel to your satisfaction and requirement? This is a common excuse I find with all premium customers, TIME! Yes, we all are busy, very busy but then passion requires devoting time to things you care deeply about.

There is no such thing as luck in these matters as I previously said. But meticulous approach and dogged persistent may get things done to your liking, otherwise these things will repeat again, be it with any premium brand.

Cheers...

[neil.jericho]

moralfibre, this really has been an eye opening thread and its sad to see BMW's high handedness in dealing with the issue on your motorcycle. I have heard of some service complaints with the Cochin dealer but the way your local dealership and BMW Motorrad have handled your situation is at a whole different level altogether. I still dont get why they refused to process the replacement through the insurance route.

I hope BMW Motorrad takes note of how much impact this thread can have with the larger Indian motorcycling community and moves quickly towards resolving your issues fully and transparently.

Anyways until then, I will be sure to forward this thread to anyone considering a BMW motorcycle in my riding community here. If this is how they treat their customers who are paying top money, I can only imagine how they will treat customers who buy some of their more mass market bikes.

[virkdoc]

0929/02Nov'20 IST: Received a call from BMW India's customer care rep Mr. Nikhil Mishra who patched in BMW Motorrad's Amit Keswani wanting to offer a resolution to the issue.

Hes the guy! Everything goes through him from all dealerships for any warranty issues. When my brakes had an issue hes the one we spoke with

Wouldn't it have been better to have spent these 4-5 hours sitting at the dealership truing your wheel to your satisfaction and requirement?

That wheel needs a full replacement. Indian dealers are neither equipped nor have the expertise to true the wheels. Even in the USA where there is a recall for wheels with loose spokes the dealers are changing out the complete wheels with the spokes.
Ideally @moralfibre should have asked for a complete wheel since the insurance was paying for it anyways.

[srini1785]

I am surprised that there is some thing called a spoked tubeless wheels and BMW as a company is offering it in their product. I am assuming that these spokes/rims are not the normal ones which are used in general spoked wheels of commuter series bikes. Any guess how they manage to keep it air tight?. I have always equated tubeless to alloy wheels.

Coming to normal spoked (tubed) wheels , the difference between a good wheel and an egg is not even half a turn more or less in the threads of few spokes. The general design is that there is a spine on the wheel rim to which the spokes are attached and a fastner on the wheel which can be adjusted max by a turn. My understanding is that you don't need a surface gauge to check the uniformness. When you use a threaded bolt and lock it in place , it in itself gives you a very good accuracy close to a few microns. But this tech may be different. Any possibility of changeover to a factory alloy wheel?.

[virkdoc]

Originally Posted by srini1785

I am surprised that there is some thing called a spoked tubeless wheels and BMW as a company is offering it in their product. I am assuming that these spokes/rims are not the normal ones which are used in general spoked wheels of commuter series bikes. Any guess how they manage to keep it air tight?. I have always equated tubeless to alloy wheels.

The design uses a cross-spoke pattern, with the spoke nipple at the hub instead of the rim. The wheels are extremely strong, but need some maintenance. However, they are EXTREMELY difficult to true. The factory builds them on a CNC machine, with a final tune by an expert using very special equipment

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by dkaile

But Sir, what about the time that you are now spending on all these emails and raising it on public forums?

Why do you assume he has not tried? he has been chasing them and they have not been responding to get things done as per his needs. Even for service Kiran does stand besides the bike. And except for the rim job, which took time, never left the bike at dealer.

But having said that, it is totally ridiculous to expect owners to guide the workshop and monitor it. Yes I have had the same issue with Triumph and even at last visit, I did have to stand along to get things as per needs. But honestly these are normal stuff that a workshop has to handle on it's own. If I had to stand by and get things done, I would prefer to do it with known trained folks (much better ones) outside and pay reasonably. 1 they expect us to pay premium for expertise and warranty and then we as owners have to take care of all this nonsense.

Originally Posted by srini1785

I am surprised that there is some thing called a spoked tubeless wheels and BMW as a company is offering it in their product. .

It was BMW trademark, now comes in Triumph Tiger as well as Africa Twin 2020.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by moralfibre

Received a call from BMW India's customer care rep Mr. Nikhil Mishra who patched in BMW Motorrad's Amit Keswani wanting to offer a resolution to the issue.

Have they not yet offered you a complete new Wheel? Just tell the guy to get an approval internally and send you a complete assembled wheel.

Originally Posted by dkaile

This is a common excuse I find with all premium customers.

In most of the developed countries, Dealerships even won't let you even enter their workshops. At many Car dealerships even in India, this is applicable. For some reasons, I have found, premium motorbike dealerships allowing customers to stay with bike or even tell mechanics what to do and what not. This is not a correct way.

Originally Posted by Jaggu

it is totally ridiculous to expect owners to guide the workshop and monitor it.

Yes, but from this thread and some other posts, it appears, this is the only way for us. My GSA is due for service this week and I was to send the same on flatbed as I am not in town, looks, I will now have to postpone the service until I return.

[Happysmiles]

Iam not surprised that Bmw India is trying to connect with you to resolve this issue. Typical damage control strategies.
Political pressure, Social media, Bribe or sitting on their heads (wasting precious time and energy) seems to be the only way.
Consumer protection laws are non existent, or will take months and years to get resolved.
Hopefully, there is a quick resolution to this issue and you get back to riding.

[nitrogary]

Originally Posted by dkaile

But Sir, what about the time that you are now spending on all these emails and raising it on public forums? Wouldn't it have been better to have spent these 4-5 hours sitting at the dealership truing your wheel to your satisfaction and requirement?
Cheers...

He's been on it since months and has been following up with them weekly or even daily at times. I am aware of the progress and am surprised that this didn't come up sooner. Efforts were also made to reach out to some people without having to post up online.

Originally Posted by srini1785

I am surprised that there is some thing called a spoked tubeless wheels and BMW as a company is offering it in their product.

It came first on the R1100GS or so several years back. Till 10-15 years, there was no one else giving this type of wheel.
By cross spoked, it means that the spokes inserted in the hub from left side end up on the right hand side of the rim.
This gives lateral strength as well as radial.

I am hoping good news is coming shortly!

[mohansrides]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

....to anyone considering a BMW motorcycle...

One of those was me. Not anymore I guess.

To be honest, I had heard of BMW Motorad horror stories before. In particular, the drive shaft breaking on brand new bikes is something I have heard more than once. Actually, a former BMW bike salesman himself told me of one such episode. Still, the yearning to own one is always there. Only as long as I am living in India, I will confine myself to just giving longing looks to big GS motorcycles. Thanks. But no thanks I suppose.