[alphadog]

The 2021 bike for sure is a tad expensive for what it offers, and the price seems to have bumped but quite significantly, without much in the way of additions. But then that is the case with all of the superbikes and big bikes, and more so bikes of this category. The Triumph line has seen a big bump in prices and so has Ducati and BMW, even the erstwhile VFM V- strom 650, has seen a big hike in price without anything to show for it.

It has to do with the insane tax structures we have for vehicles in our country and the manufacturers wanting to squeeze out every bit of profit, on top of it. So not only do we pay huge GSTs on the ex-showroom, we also end up paying huge percent as road tax, in states like Kerala and Karnataka, as opposed to places like Delhi. This makes for an eye-watering on-road price.

I own the 2018 DCT version of the Africa Twin. With regards to the sheer riding pleasure of this bike, nothing matches it and it is one of the most capable adventure tourer. Give it any type of roads or no roads and this one flies on it. With the DCT, there is no fear of stalling or burning the clutch plates in off-road or city riding. Yes, they are tall and heavy, but these bikes have always been so and it is just the inherent quality of this category of bikes.The service and parts costs of Honda, is one of the cheapest among the big bikes and it is very reliable, so the chances of being stranded somewhere is not very high. So maintenance and running with it is not much of an issue.

In summary, if someone asks me if I would plonk 21 big ones of my money now for the 2021 Africa twin or 24 ones for a GS1250, then my answer is No. Simply because, the return of investment in terms of riding pleasure, (more so in our country with the kind of roads and traffic) are not proportionately higher for spending that much more. But then it is a very subjective thing and people who have the moolah to plonk on bikes such as this or who want it for a particular task, will not think twice about buying such bikes.

Cheerio!

[GoBlue]

Took delivery of a 2021 CRF1100L (Africa Twin) Manual Transmission recently.

Note to Honda, Japan: Thank you, for putting heart and soul into this beautiful machine.

Note to Honda, India: Thank you, for increasing prices in 2021 whilst conveniently forgetting to add features.

[bf1983]

Congrats! Was always wondering what next after the Suzuki for you. Looks like you stuck to the Japanese family

Before your review (and I hope you will make one!) do let us know your decision making process in choosing the Honda Africa twin over the competition like the Tiger or Multistrada

[GoBlue]

Originally Posted by bf1983

Congrats! Was always wondering what next after the Suzuki for you. Looks like you stuck to the Japanese family

Thanks!

Originally Posted by bf1983

Before your review (and I hope you will make one!) do let us know your decision making process in choosing the Honda Africa twin over the competition like the Tiger or Multistrada

Haven't planned to compose a detailed review. This bike has such a plethora of features that it would be difficult to cover everything. The user manual itself is proving to be challenging to go through. I'd be happy to respond to queries/discuss on this thread, though.

As for the decision to go with the ATAS (Africa Twin Adventure Sports), it was a purely from-the-heart one in favor of the Honda. All bikes from this segment (which you've mentioned) like the Tiger 900, Multistrada 950S etc are brilliant. It is quite difficult to choose between them. Having a certain bias towards the Honda helped avoid excess brain cell damage.

[imranstael]

Originally Posted by GoBlue

Took delivery of a 2021 CRF1100L (Africa Twin) Manual Transmission recently.

Note to Honda, Japan: Thank you, for putting heart and soul into this beautiful machine.

Note to Honda, India: Thank you, for increasing prices in 2021 whilst conveniently forgetting to add features.

Congratulations on getting an incredible machine! I personally like the black one even more as it looks extra mean with the DRLs and will not draw too much unwanted attention when touring!

I was wondering if you could share the suspension travel of the AT here in India. There were rumours/info going around that the India version gets a different suspension travel than the international version. It would be awesome if you could clarify this. Maybe it's in the user manual or something.

[GoBlue]

Originally Posted by imranstael

Congratulations on getting an incredible machine!

Thanks!

Originally Posted by imranstael

I was wondering if you could share the suspension travel of the AT here in India. There were rumours/info going around that the India version gets a different suspension travel than the international version. It would be awesome if you could clarify this. Maybe it's in the user manual or something.

Honda India has mentioned the reduced travel of the rear suspension in the India-spec brochure of the bike, on the Africa Twin website page:
https://www.hondabigwing.in/Content/...%20website.pdf

International spec travel for rear suspension: 8.7 inches (220 mm)
Internal spec standard seat height: 850mm-870mm (adjustable)

India spec travel for rear suspension: 7.1 inches (180 mm)
India spec standard seat height: 810mm-830mm (adjustable)

Front suspension travel International spec: 200 mm
Front suspension travel India Spec: TBD (I will confirm this from India spec service manual & revert. Info is not present in owner's manual)

Ground clearance International spec: 250 mm
Ground clearance India spec: 210 mm

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

I concur. Pretty stupid to spend this kind of money on a motorcycle.

Originally Posted by suneel

Isn't the GS 25L plus and fairly popular? I don't think it's "stupid" if people who have the money want to spend it on whatever they like. It's all relative. 20 is a lot to some people and nothing to some people.

@Redliner: Pray tell me up to what kind of money you think is OK to spend on a motorcycle and I will find you someone who thinks its stupid to spend that amount on a vehicle. I’m frankly pretty shocked to read a statement like this on a forum like Team BHP.

Agree with Suneel here.

Originally Posted by suneel

So does India still get the handicapped low seat height / short travel suspension model of the AT or do we get the proper international version with real offroad capable suspension?

The least Honda could do is launch the base model AT with the standard long travel suspension for the customer segment that would like to use it as a real adventure bike and not a glorified tourer.

Originally Posted by GoBlue

Thanks!

Honda India has mentioned the reduced travel of the rear suspension in the India-spec brochure of the bike, on the Africa Twin website page:
https://www.hondabigwing.in/Content/...%20website.pdf

International spec travel for rear suspension: 8.7 inches (220 mm)
Internal spec standard seat height: 850mm-870mm (adjustable)

India spec travel for rear suspension: 7.1 inches (180 mm)
India spec standard seat height: 810mm-830mm (adjustable)

Front suspension travel International spec: 200 mm
Front suspension travel India Spec: TBD (I will confirm this from India spec service manual & revert. Info is not present in owner's manual)

Ground clearance International spec: 250 mm
Ground clearance India spec: 210 mm

@GoBlue: Would love to connect sometime in Pune. Congrats on an absolutely brilliant purchase. This is definitely a beautiful bike and a great choice here.

@Suneel: Yes - it has the lower seat height. GoBlue has helpfully laid out all the specs above. They have launched it in what I think they call Asia spec and not Euro spec. Frankly giving it the above stats just makes it accessible to a much wider range of riders and makes sufficient sense. In the previous avatar, it weighed not far from the papa GS, was equally tall and was top heavy to boot. This one is incredibly accessible in comparison.

“Glorified Tourer”??? Despite the top pro YouTube videos one might watch, fact is people here don’t use 250 kg ADVs like 140 kg Enduro bikes. I’m not sure if you’ve had a go at the 2020 AT but I think its got more than enough off road capability to handle any off-roading you would want to throw at it. It also carries its weight lower I think. I would be curious what additional hard core off roading you would have pulled off on the 2017 variant that you cannot specifically achieve with this one.

Originally Posted by Red Liner

But 20+ lakhs for an adventure motorcycle for an average joe which
- you will be worried about parking anywhere
- you will dread every annual service (cost)
- you will be paranoid about dropping the bike
- you will be stressed out with the parts cost
- you will be loathe to travel far and wide because what if something happens and I have to cart the bike 1000+ kms to the nearest SVC.

There are a lot of average joes who are smitten by these big tax suckers.

Frankly I know a lot of chaps who have more modest 4 wheelers but are truly passionate about owning big bikes whether for touring or otherwise. The fact is they are mostly NOT used as daily office commuters. Most people I know would either do that in a car, or a more basic motorcycle or scooter if they must. But that doesn’t take away the value these bikes hold in their garage for their weekend or travel motorcycling. Unlike more prevalent perhaps in people who have super sports bikes (not to generalise of course) the beauty of adventure bikes, whether big or small is that I find most people actually put a fair number of miles on them. They’re finding the time to travel far and wide and enjoying these rides. So not sure where all your points are coming from. Join a dedicated adventure bike group in your city and it’ll give a fair insight into just how much people actually ride these. The answer is - A LOT!

Originally Posted by BikeDevil44

Went down to BigWingHonda Andheri to check out the 2021 AT DCT. The on road price of the bike is almost 22 Lakhs! This is insanely expensive. Considering the first gen of the AT which was launched in 17’ was for almost 13-14L on road. Maybe paying a few lakhs more and going on for the BMW R1250GS makes more sense.

Bit surprised at the above nos. I went today and got the quotes. The on road prices in Mumbai are 18.81 L for the Manual 20.60 for the DCT. To my mind these are only marginally pricey for what the AT offers. I see this bike as sitting kind of between the Tiger 900 and the GS 1250 (closer to the Tiger perhaps). The Rally Pro retails for about 18.xx so the manual is squarely head on in price. It’s the DCT - a unique product which is a couple of lakhs over that price. The GS is 25.xx on road so I think the price point is consistent with the competition. Also, bear in mind that everything GS will be a LOT more than the Honda - parts, spares, accessories - everything. And specially with an adventure bike you are going to rough use it, drop it and what not. Trust me riding an ADV that’s much cheaper to own has a massive advantage, not to be underestimated.

Once you throw Honda’s MUCH cheaper service cost into the mix, its frankly quite a compelling proposition. If I do consider flipping my Tiger 800 in 4 - 5 years, based on the current options and pricing, the AT DCT would be one of my top options hands down if the price / spec combo, relative to competition, remains on the above lines.

[GoBlue]

Originally Posted by GoBlue

Thanks!



Honda India has mentioned the reduced travel of the rear suspension in the India-spec brochure of the bike, on the Africa Twin website page:
https://www.hondabigwing.in/Content/...%20website.pdf

International spec travel for rear suspension: 8.7 inches (220 mm)
Internal spec standard seat height: 850mm-870mm (adjustable)

India spec travel for rear suspension: 7.1 inches (180 mm)
India spec standard seat height: 810mm-830mm (adjustable)

Front suspension travel International spec: 204 mm
Front suspension travel India Spec: 164 mm (confirmed from service manual)

Ground clearance International spec: 250 mm
Ground clearance India spec: 210 mm

Quoting self to clarify front suspension travel.

As Axe77 has mentioned, Honda sells the lowered version of the Africa Twin Adventure Sports DCT/MT in India.

The bike code for DCT is CRF1100DL2 and MT is CRF1100AL2 in the owner's manual. "L" stands for Lowered version.

Essentially both the front/rear suspension is lowered by 40 mm, to make a seat height of 810 mm possible.

I am a 5'5" vertically challenged human, and I cannot state enough how incredibly comfortable the ergos are with an 810 mm seat height. For taller folks, the seat height can be adjusted to 830 mm or a High seat can be ordered which takes the height to the 850-870mm (adjustable) range.

A brilliant side effect of this change is that the CG is now even lower, which makes this bike handle with a level of agility that takes one aback. To illustrate with an example, on my first ride back from the showroom after taking delivery, encountered about 7-8km of unimaginably dense Pune traffic (at around 8 pm, JM Road to Sinhagad Road route). Was able to throw this 248 kg bike (240 + 8kg towards full engine + fairing guards) around like one would a Honda Activa. It defies physics, that's how good the mass centralization/CG is on this machine.

It is an extremely friendly bike to ride, and I would urge anyone who's considering a bike in this segment to take a TD.

Please don't blame me if it blows your mind and you feel like reaching for that wallet to make a booking.

[GoBlue]

Originally Posted by Axe77

@GoBlue: Would love to connect sometime in Pune. Congrats on an absolutely brilliant purchase. This is definitely a beautiful bike and a great choice here.

Thanks Axe77!

Sure, let's connect. PM'ed you.

[suneel]

Originally Posted by Axe77

@Suneel: Yes - it has the lower seat height. GoBlue has helpfully laid out all the specs above. They have launched it in what I think they call Asia spec and not Euro spec. Frankly giving it the above stats just makes it accessible to a much wider range of riders and makes sufficient sense. In the previous avatar, it weighed not far from the papa GS, was equally tall and was top heavy to boot. This one is incredibly accessible in comparison.

“Glorified Tourer”??? Despite the top pro YouTube videos one might watch, fact is people here don’t use 250 kg ADVs like 140 kg Enduro bikes. I’m not sure if you’ve had a go at the 2020 AT but I think its got more than enough off road capability to handle any off-roading you would want to throw at it. It also carries its weight lower I think. I would be curious what additional hard core off roading you would have pulled off on the 2017 variant that you cannot specifically achieve with this one.

Perhaps my statement was a bit harsh, stemming from disappointment that Honda would gimp our market or consider India unworthy/incapable of handling the Euro spec AT. Giving us the option of the low height version or the standard would have been nice. Or at least having two variants, the low height Adventure Sports and the standard height Base spec.

Taller riders (myself included) who enjoy taller bikes have few enough options to begin with and it's unfortunate that one of the best tall bikes is taken from our market.

As to the difference in offroad capabilities, 180mm suspension travel on the low AT is equivalent to a Tiger 800 XR. Certainly not confidence inspiring, but probably good enough for most people. Do I really need more travel? I don't know if or when I will encounter a situation where I wish I'd had more, but I'd rather err on the side of longer travel if I can handle the height. And many people can.

Most of all, I prefer brands leave choices like this to the customers and not do the choosing for us.

Triumph has fortunately not treated the Indian market with kid gloves and given us the full blown Tiger 900 Rally versions, 850-870mm seat height, 240mm suspension travel and I salute them for it.

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by suneel

Or at least having two variants, the low height Adventure Sports and the standard height Base spec.

Most of all, I prefer brands leave choices like this to the customers and not do the choosing for us.

Triumph has fortunately not treated the Indian market with kid gloves and given us the full blown Tiger 900 Rally versions, 850-870mm seat height, 240mm suspension travel and I salute them for it.

Agree with all of what you’ve said here. Fact is, if someone’s riding is MUCH more biased towards off-roading and hard core off-roading at that, the Rally Pro is clearly superior, not just in how its specced but also with the added advantage of its significantly lower kerb weight.

If you are a mixed rider with more touring than off-roading then the AT (or GS) would bring some added advantages to the table but then the Rally Pro is frankly almost as good to tour as well. The beauty of the new AT is that when you compare it with the Rally Pro, just the way its designed, it does not “feel” as top heavy as the Rally Pro. And that’s really quite reassuring and I’m sure in part down to the ride height dynamics. It would indeed be ideal if they offered the full breadth of options but unfortunately Honda’s entire approach is to chase very limited numbers so I guess its scuttling their ability or desire to carpet bomb the product with multiple variant options. Something Triumph does really well.

I for one am a shorter rider (5’4”), and more road biased than off-road biased although I like my bike to have fairly generous capability off road (a Versys or Multistrada just wouldn’t work for me).
For me, the 2020 avatar of the Africa Twin means I have three primary choices when the time comes to upgrade maybe around 2023/24: (i) the Tiger in GT avatar (but compromise on spoke wheels, lack of 21” wheels etc); (ii) the Africa Twin that has these missing bits, option of DCT, and still as accessible to ride as the Tiger GT; and (iii) finally the Rally Pro which probably is the most hard core package but I need to get comfortable with its seat height - not impossible but clearly something that’ll always keep me a bit on edge.

[GoBlue]

Originally Posted by Axe77

The beauty of the new AT is that when you compare it with the Rally Pro, just the way its designed, it does not “feel” as top heavy as the Rally Pro. And that’s really quite reassuring and I’m sure in part down to the ride height dynamics.

This is a pertinent point, thanks for bringing it into this conversation.

The Africa Twin MT feels less top heavy than Tiger 900 Rally Pro despite the Tiger weighing 20kg lesser in kerb weight.

Being less top heavy allows one to enjoy the bike that much more on a day-to-day basis.

For a heavy/regular off-road use, the Tiger 900 Rally Pro would be a much better package.

But for those who’d not have much of an off-road use case, the Africa Twin MT (Asia Spec) is a compelling package. It is a segment or two ahead of the Tiger 900 Rally Pro in terms of:
- better looks (subjective), much better road presence
- litre class engine (smooth/vibe free, no heating issue)
- more comprehensive electronics package (power modes, wheelie control, engine braking control: all can be configured independently)
- much better weather/wind protection in terms of the fairing design
- Segment leading touch-screen TFT package. Apple CarPlay/Android Auto: full screen Google Maps for long rides (Triumph could utilise it’s TFT screen more effectively on Tiger)
- more comfortable ergonomics (seat, foot peg, handlebar triangle)
- valved exhaust system (amazing aural experience)
- cornering lights (IMU controlled)

Strengths of the Triumph Tiger 900 Rally Pro over the Africa Twin MT (Asia Spec):
- better spec brakes (Brembo Stylema with adjustable ratio)
- longer travel suspension
- heated seats, front/rear
- integrated TPMS
- ~20 kg lower kerb weight
- standard quick shifter (Honda offers it as optional accessory for Africa Twin)
- backlit handlebar controls
- Pirelli Scorpion Rally (off-road use) tires provided stock (Africa Twin comes with 80:20 tires as stock, either Bridgestone Battlax AX41s or Metzeler Karoo Street)

Personally and with due respect, I don’t consider a Triple engine that’s been revised to feel like a Twin as a “strength” of the Tiger 900 range, but perhaps for someone else it could be. Please consider this as a subjective/prejudiced opinion.

[TheVaas]

Sorry to digress from the actual topic of AFRICA TWIN, but just wanted to share my experience -

Originally Posted by suneel

As to the difference in offroad capabilities, 180mm suspension travel on the low AT is equivalent to a Tiger 800 XR. Certainly not confidence inspiring, but probably good enough for most people.

This is exactly what I thought when I read that the Indian AT is 'low spec' at 180mm rear travel and even lesser, 164mm front travel - the Tiger XR/XRx variant comes with 170 front and 180 rear.

Do I really need more travel? I don't know if or when I will encounter a situation where I wish I'd had more, but I'd rather err on the side of longer travel if I can handle the height. And many people can.

This past December, I did a Mumbai to North East and back ride on my XRx with my wife as pillion. I definitely wished I had longer travel and better GC. With the luggage added on, it became difficult to even put the bike on side stand -and both of us don't weigh that much! The only thing one can do is stiffen up the rear preload (the only thing adjustable on the XR versions) and get a slight increase in GC at the risk of a stiffer suspension.

Originally Posted by Axe77

For me, the 2020 avatar of the Africa Twin means I have three primary choices when the time comes to upgrade maybe around 2023/24: (i) the Tiger in GT avatar (but compromise on spoke wheels, lack of 21” wheels etc); (ii) the Africa Twin that has these missing bits, option of DCT, and still as accessible to ride as the Tiger GT; and (iii) finally the Rally Pro which probably is the most hard core package but I need to get comfortable with its seat height - not impossible but clearly something that’ll always keep me a bit on edge.

I had two XCx riders with me and they had absolutely no issue with GC or suspension - which got me thinking about whether the road variants are 'touring-friendly' enough for the kind of roads we have in our country? In your choices, I'd go with the Rally Pro or a used XCx/XCa.

[GoBlue]

Has Triumph published ground clearance numbers of the Tiger 900 range? Cannot see it in the specs on Triumph India website.

210mm of GC on AT should be adequate for touring use. The (fully adjustable) suspension can be dialled in for rider+pillion+luggage weight.

[imranstael]

Originally Posted by GoBlue

Has Triumph published ground clearance numbers of the Tiger 900 range? Cannot see it in the specs on Triumph India website.

210mm of GC on AT should be adequate for touring use. The (fully adjustable) suspension can be dialled in for rider+pillion+luggage weight.

Tiger 900 Rally owners on reddit have measured their ground clearance to be between 9 and 9.5 inches (varying measurements) (230 - 240 mm)

I do think that 210mm is probably enough for touring and luggage/pillion. It is impressive that the lowered Asia spec AT has 210mm to be honest. I believe the Tiger 800 XR was around 180 or so if I am not mistaken.

There is no magic number for ground clearance. Those with less GC on tours will find work arounds, less aggressive lines and in worst case scenarios let their bash plates do what they were designed for. That being said, the more the merrier if handling the vehicle is not a concern.