[abhi_tjet]

I am quite glad that I didn’t waited for CBR. With same price as Street Triple R, it will be a no brainer for many people to go ahead with Triumph or Kawasaki(I hope).

What’s with the torque specifications though? In pre BS4 era, it was 60 plus. Reduced to 60 in BS4. With BS6, it’s just 57 NM.

However, it’s still the cheapest inline 4 cylinder fully faired bike. Indians generally have affinity towards faired bikes courtesy - Dhoom movie.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

- When the CBR650F was launched in 2015, it was priced much higher than its middleweight competition from Triumph and Kawasaki. At that time too, the specifications didnt hold up against its competition. And everyone said Honda wont sell any bikes.
- Prices of all these big bikes have undeniably shot up a lot with the move to BS6. The Z900 is around Rs 11L OTR here in Kerala. The Triumph is more.
- In 2021, Honda has again priced its middleweight options at a premium against its competition, this time a little more sensibly than in 2015.

That's factually wrong, Neil.

• In 2015, the bike (CBR650F back then) was originally launched at 7.3 lakhs ex-showroom Delhi - priced against the Z800 at 7.5 lakhs ex-showroom. (20k less than Z800)
  
• In 2019, CBR650R was launched at 7.7 lakhs. Z900 was priced at 7.69 lakhs. (1k more than Z900)
  
• Now in 2021, CBR650R is launched at 8.8 lakhs vs Z900 currently at 8.1 lakhs. (70k more than Z900)

From 2019 to 2021, the CBR650R has gone from 1k more expensive than Z900 to 70k more! And let's not forget that it was the Z900 which received a major update in between.

[bf1983]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Comparing the CB650R with the Z900 -

- Displacement 299cc
- Power 29.9 hp
- Torque 35.6 Nm.
- Traction control
- Riding modes / Power modes

+ 50k in pricing

Even I was under the impression it lacked Traction control as it wasn't mentioned anywhere but the ABS version of the CBR650R has Honda Selectable Torque Control (HSTC) which is their fancy schamcy naming of traction control.

[varunanb]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

At the end of the day, its another great option for us as customers. Sure, it may not appeal to 9 out of 10 enthusiasts here or in the real world, but that 10th person will be super excited to bring home an inline 4 from Honda.

absolutely right. Few years or even few months back, till i bought my first bike in decades, I would have gone by the paper spec and rejected the bike outright considering it offers a pathetic VFM.

Having owned a 390 since last year and using it regularly I now have a clearer idea of what I want in my bikes.

1. Adrenaline pumping track days - Dont think i could get the max out of the 650R even in its 85bhp tune at the MMRT or Kari speedways, which are the tracks accessible to me. Feel, the duke 390 can be a better bike here. So, a street triple or a tuono or any other bikes are an over kill. like the saying goes, its fun to ride a slow bike fast.I would like the 390 for the occasional track days i plan.

2. Enjoyable touring (max 600-700) kms one way rides - I still prefer a crouched forward riding position while touring to have fun and feel in control of the bike. 390 is an exciting machine and can keep up with most if not all the superbikes, if they behave as a responsible rider and obey rules. In my last ride to valparai from chennai, with about 500 kms of national highway, the 6th gear was redundant. Hardly used them a handfull of times. All this in a bike with just 44bhp, cant understand where will the additional bhp of bigger bikes help? other than getting into their riding group. So a detuned CBR650R with 85bhp is more than adequate for our highways, ghat roads and to do some unmentionable speeds on roads, maybe the other riders reach a little faster and i catch up with them while they park and are getting off their 100/150+ bhp bikes.

3. city rides to office and local tbhp meets - this is where the bike will be tested, the chennai heat and traffic, makes the duke heat up within minutes. The CBR650R's relatively less stressed inline 4 behaves like a much smaller capacity bike especially in traffic. Also, another big plus is the linear power delivery of the honda. that makes city riding so much easier than the smaller KTM's, leave alone the bigger bikes.

4. Occasional ride instead of usual drives to hometown for bussiness - for our roads, the honda can be a true jekyll and hyde on tap. Keep the revs and speeds lower, you can ride about 400 kms and walk straight to office. Finish work and possibly return the same day too. cant imagine doing this in any other bikes other than the bigger adventure tourers.

The CBR650R scores in 3 of my 4 requirements. Its a bike that doesnt intimidate, lets you have more fun on it by letting you push more, and if the comparison is done without the spec sheet, I think the only bike that can come close to the CBR650R is the upcoming trident. It can be a good primary bike. Im surprised to even say this, a 650cc inline 4 for regular usage over a 370cc single cylinder bike. Thats how versatile the CBR can be.

I also, couldnt understand the logic in suggestions of pay a little extra and a ninja 1000, a proper litre class bike can be had. But for what? 140 bhp on our roads is a disaster waiting to happen if we use the bike to its potential, nor it can be pushed on track. It just gets me the bragging rights and gets into certain riding groups. Like said earlier, better to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow.

So, Im really in the fence tipping over to get the CBR. Now that the price is out, will take few more weeks and decide, and hope Honda has stocks available by the time i make a decision.

[pavanmadhini]

Originally Posted by varunanb

I also, couldnt understand the logic in suggestions of pay a little extra and a ninja 1000, a proper litre class bike can be had. But for what? 140 bhp on our roads is a disaster waiting to happen if we use the bike to its potential, nor it can be pushed on track. It just gets me the bragging rights and gets into certain riding groups. Like said earlier, better to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow.

So, Im really in the fence tipping over to get the CBR. Now that the price is out, will take few more weeks and decide, and hope Honda has stocks available by the time i make a decision.

Well, I disagree that it's better to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow. I'd much rather do 120-140 kmph on the CBR650R or the Ninja 1000 than on the Duke 390 or a Pulsar. Even with cars, I'm much more comfortable doing 120 on my Jetta rather than my i10. The bigger bikes and cars have way better safety equipment usually and ride/drive much less stressed at our highway speeds.

I do agree that the CBR650R is genuinely all the bike you need for India, but I just wish it had been priced a bit more reasonably. The Street Triple R would be my pick at this price point.

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

[*]In 2015, the bike (CBR650F back then) was originally launched at 7.3 lakhs ex-showroom Delhi - priced against the Z800 at 7.5 lakhs ex-showroom. (20k less than Z800)

I stand corrected. I went back and dug up the actual ex showroom prices in 2015
- Kawasaki Z800 : Rs 7.35L (got a price cut due to the price reduction in Thailand)
- Honda CBR650F : Rs 7.35L
- Triumph Street Triple 675 : Rs 7.91L

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

[*]Now in 2021, CBR650R is launched at 8.8 lakhs vs Z900 currently at 8.1 lakhs. (70k more than Z900)

The Kawasaki dealers are infamous for piling on additional handling charges, either in the ex showroom (Kerala) or in the final on road price (everywhere else). This is something that Honda doesnt do. So the on road pricing is actually a better comparison but its not easy to obtain the right numbers from different states.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

From 2019 to 2021, the CBR650R has gone from 1k more expensive than Z900 to 70k more! And let's not forget that it was the Z900 which received a major update in between.

100%.

Also, to my knowledge, the Honda runs perfectly on regular Indian fuel while the Z900 does not. That is a big plus for tourers. I got to know recently from a fellow TBHPian that the Kawasaki Bangalore service team has been recommending an additive for the Versys 1000, to help it deal with Indian fuel.

This one

Im guessing something similar needs to be used for the Z900 as well.

Originally Posted by varunanb

So, Im really in the fence tipping over to get the CBR. Now that the price is out, will take few more weeks and decide, and hope Honda has stocks available by the time i make a decision.

That was a very well explained post I can completely relate to everything that you listed.

[varunanb]

Originally Posted by pavanmadhini

Well, I disagree that it's better to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow. I'd much rather do 120-140 kmph on the CBR650R or the Ninja 1000 than on the Duke 390 or a Pulsar. Even with cars, I'm much more comfortable doing 120 on my Jetta rather than my i10. The bigger bikes and cars have way better safety equipment usually and ride/drive much less stressed at our highway speeds.

I do agree that the CBR650R is genuinely all the bike you need for India, but I just wish it had been priced a bit more reasonably. The Street Triple R would be my pick at this price point.

Agreed Pavanmadhini, sometimes cruising at 110/120 at just over 1500 rpm in my 530D feel relaxing and refreshing.But also puts me to sleep when im alone. This is just me and was thinking aloud and in the process making myself accept the price. Unfortunately, middleweight faired bikes are very rare and CBR650R is the cheapest faired sports tourer in the country (Not considering the Ninja 650).

No doubt, a street triple is anyday better bike than even some litre class bikes. Its afterall a daytona. But buying it and using it in the 5-7K rev band most of the time, is like buying a macbook pro and using it to check mails and to work on excel.

[pavanmadhini]

Originally Posted by varunanb

No doubt, a street triple is anyday better bike than even some litre class bikes. Its afterall a daytona. But buying it and using it in the 5-7K rev band most of the time, is like buying a macbook pro and using it to check mails and to work on excel.

Most macbook pro users I know do just that!

I feel the Striple can do almost everything pretty well - city, touring, track. Which is probably true for the CBR 650R as well - but then, additional horses never hurt. Plus, the Striple also has loads of character, which is hard to quantify.

[Jhinchak]

Originally Posted by whencut86

All the talks of cheaper spare, available consumables, better spares availability and cheaper service make sense only if the Honda tax is at least somewhat justified. With the recent pricing, a prospective buyer would even think of stepping into the showroom to inquire about the bike forget about booking or buying one.

I agree , Personally I feel both bikes are overpriced by a lakh, Which itself is worth at least 3 or 4 annual services. So why would anyone like to pay the extra amount up front.

Also the Honda 650R being a 650 is more likely to compete against the Benelli 600i and the z650 rather than z900(which is almost 40 bhp more) and street triple. The 600i and Z650 bikes are substantially cheaper, even though service costs might be more.

The street triple is almost the same price but we get more power, more torque.

[animeshb]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Im not sure why anyone is surprised by Honda's pricing. This is exactly where I expected them to position these bikes. Im just surprised they took so long to launch these Euro 5 / BS6 bikes.

I concur with you Neil, I have a 2018 March CBR 650F which I bought and have been a very satisfied user for 12k kms. When most cars and bikes prices have gone up (for example the Tiger GT has also gone up by 20 percent in the last 2-3 years or so). If I was in the market for an middle-weight in-line 4, I would pick up the 650R again at current prices. It is comfortable, fast enough for my needs (can easily do legal and not so legal speeds), not as committed as a ZX-6R and is very very smoooth! I am pretty sure the 650R will sell enough - there are people out there who need a middle weight sports tourer and there isn't anything better than the 650R out there. And not that it matters, but I feel the CBX-500 is priced alright too.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

At the end of the day, its another great option for us as customers. Sure, it may not appeal to 9 out of 10 enthusiasts here or in the real world, but that 10th person will be super excited to bring home an inline 4 from Honda.

Totally - I am happy to be that 1 out of 10 enthusiasts.

I intend to now add another steel horse to my stable and I am in the market for a big ADV. Having been used to a Honda in-line 4, the big twins just don't cut it for me anymore. On every other test ride I end up being disappointed just because of the engine feel. The BMW Motorrad dealer manager has told me, that I will come back for the BMW 1000xr just for that reason.

Originally Posted by varunanb

absolutely right. Few years or even few months back, till i bought my first bike in decades, I would have gone by the paper spec and rejected the bike outright considering it offers a pathetic VFM.

So, Im really in the fence tipping over to get the CBR. Now that the price is out, will take few more weeks and decide, and hope Honda has stocks available by the time i make a decision.

You wouldn't regret it varunab, I sincerely hope you pick one up. All the reasons you mentioned are spot on.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

The Kawasaki dealers are infamous for piling on additional handling charges, either in the ex showroom (Kerala) or in the final on road price (everywhere else). This is something that Honda doesnt do.

Honda announces ex-Gurugram price and has higher ex-showroom rates for some other states like Kerala. For example - CB500X was announced at 6.87 lakhs, whereas the ex-showroom price for you in Cochin is 6.94 lakhs.

While we await the state level pricing on the CBR 650R, expect it to be closer to 9 lakhs for you.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Also, to my knowledge, the Honda runs perfectly on regular Indian fuel while the Z900 does not. That is a big plus for tourers. I got to know recently from a fellow TBHPian that the Kawasaki Bangalore service team has been recommending an additive for the Versys 1000, to help it deal with Indian fuel.

You are comparing BS4 to BS6. Even the Versys 1000 had zero issues in BS4 but the initial BS6 bikes struggled on poor quality fuel. BS6 Honda would be something we would need to wait and watch for effects on our fuel.

I guess they haven't increased compression ratio though - because the motor now produces 2.6Nm of torque lesser than earlier, that too at 500 rpm later, with a similar effect on max power output as well.

[GoBlue]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

- As we have seen from their track record, Honda doesnt seem to be in the game of importing 1,000 units of superbikes and then struggling to service them.
- Honda will likely sell all the units of these middleweights that they import.
- Honda owners will be happy.
- Honda dealers will be happy.
- Honda's leadership will be happy.

At the end of the day, its another great option for us as customers. Sure, it may not appeal to 9 out of 10 enthusiasts here or in the real world, but that 10th person will be super excited to bring home an inline 4 from Honda.

+1

Somehow, the internet seems to be disappointed with every Honda big-bike launch.

This point which neil.jericho has mentioned seems appropriate. There is a market for this bike and that target demographic will buy this bike no matter what it's priced at.

Personally, I find the CB650R's (the naked bike) styling to be absolutely stunning and to be much better than the Z900's. As for the HP/NM advantage that the Z900 has over this, it's just a notional aspect. We all crave for the biggest/baddest bike that money can buy and it's okay.

However in retrospect, having owned/ridden the Suzuki GSX S750 (750cc I4/112 HP/81 NM) extensively on our highways, can say for sure that it is not safe/possible to extract all the power out of these engines unless one has titanium testicles for body parts. The GSX was a much quicker bike than the Honda CBR650R, but it didn't really matter at the end of the day, as my riding intent was for pleasure and not to thrash the Zuki around with reckless abandon.

Which then means that this pursuit for power is merely for pleasure of possession (speaking personally - to each their own). Or for occasional track use, in which case the Z900 does make more sense.

The comparison that I find actually relevant is with the Street Triple 765R. That bike appears to have following tangible advantages over the CB650R (besides the power bump):
- ride-by-wire throttle
- fully adjustable suspension
- lesser kerb weight
- better stock tires
- in-arguably better handling
- all this for SIMILAR price

If I was in the market again for a bike from this segment, the Street Triple 765R would be THE machine to acquire. Not for the power advantage, but for these afore-mentioned aspects which make it a much better bike than the Honda.

As for the faired CBR650R, no comments. I like my faired bikes plastered only on phone wall-papers.

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by varunanb

So, Im really in the fence tipping over to get the CBR. Now that the price is out, will take few more weeks and decide, and hope Honda has stocks available by the time i make a decision.

Honestly, the CBR650 (F/R) has always been a great option for those who were looking for exactly that sort of a bike. I know 5 TBHPians who own / owned the F version and all of them are very happy with it. I agree with animeshb's post, you wont regret it. We all look forward to your ownership review!

Originally Posted by varunanb

Unfortunately, middleweight faired bikes are very rare and CBR650R is the cheapest faired sports tourer in the country (Not considering the Ninja 650).

Agree. While the Ninja 650 is an excellent bike, its low ground clearance can be a bother while touring in mixed road conditions.

Originally Posted by varunanb

No doubt, a street triple is anyday better bike than even some litre class bikes. Its afterall a daytona. But buying it and using it in the 5-7K rev band most of the time, is like buying a macbook pro and using it to check mails and to work on excel.

This hit a little close to home as it is exactly how I get to ride my Street Triple. I feel like I bought a Macbook Pro but now use it to play Solitaire

Originally Posted by animeshb

If I was in the market for an middle-weight in-line 4, I would pick up the 650R again at current prices. It is comfortable, fast enough for my needs (can easily do legal and not so legal speeds), not as committed as a ZX-6R and is very very smoooth! I am pretty sure the 650R will sell enough - there are people out there who need a middle weight sports tourer and there isn't anything better than the 650R out there.

Perfectly summed up!

Originally Posted by animeshb

I intend to now add another steel horse to my stable and I am in the market for a big ADV. Having been used to a Honda in-line 4, the big twins just don't cut it for me anymore. On every other test ride I end up being disappointed just because of the engine feel. The BMW Motorrad dealer manager has told me, that I will come back for the BMW 1000xr just for that reason.

There is a TBHPian who owned the CBR650F and wanted to upgrade to a big adventure bike. He tried all the options and he has decided on the lovely Africa Twin. I am sure that we will be treated to his review thread soon.

Originally Posted by GoBlue

However, having owned/ridden the GSX S750 (750cc I4/112 HP/81 NM) extensively on our highways, can say for sure that it is not safe/possible to extract all the power out of these engines unless one has titanium testicles for body parts. The GSX was a much quicker bike than the Honda CBR650R, but it didn't really matter at the end of the day, as my riding intent was for pleasure and not to thrash the Zuki around with reckless abandon.

+1.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Honda announces ex-Gurugram price and has higher ex-showroom rates for some other states like Kerala. For example - CB500X was announced at 6.87 lakhs, whereas the ex-showroom price for you in Cochin is 6.94 lakhs.

Oh, I wasnt aware of this move from Honda. I will check with the dealer when I go to check out the new CB500X.

From the Kawasaki side, the local dealer's staff themselves have told me that they jack up the ex showroom prices to add handling charges. It is not something that is done by Kawasaki India.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

You are comparing BS4 to BS6.

No I was comparing BS4 to BS4. The Z900 has a history of not liking regular Indian fuel. This was compounded by the fact that we didnt get premium fuel in Kerala until very recently.

Even the local Kawasaki dealership's technicians have confirmed that the Z900 doesnt like regular fuel, when I asked them about it in 2018. We need to see the BS6 Honda's ability to handle regular Indian fuel, I suspect it wont have any problems.

[AtheK]

The point of the day is there is no one bike fit it all, everyone has varying needs, and varying wants from the bike. The fact that this bike is overpriced might not be an issue for the one fixated to buy this, but for others who are cross shopping it will come across as higher priced then the competition.

If the intent is to do legal speeds and that being the crux of discussion, even my Apache 310RR easily did those speeds at 1/3rd of the price, the new one comes with even more goodies. Yes it was not an inline 4, but then neither was it too vibey at the legal speeds, forget 310RR, a normal RTR is not vibey at legal speeds.

A price hike of 1.1 lacs is not justified, and makes it even tougher to pick this bike. Yes Honda wants to sell limited numbers, so be it, if that is the strategy, they will succeed, but it's a funny strategy indeed. Apparently a grand total of around 80 previous edition of CBR 650R were sold in Bangalore, if that is the volume Honda wants to play at, they will definitely get those numbers.

[girishv]

Originally Posted by varunanb

No doubt, a street triple is anyday better bike than even some litre class bikes. Its afterall a daytona. But buying it and using it in the 5-7K rev band most of the time, is like buying a macbook pro and using it to check mails and to work on excel.

I think even for simply using for mail and calculations, a MacBook may turn out to be VFM if you keep it for long enough.
My 2015 MBP works like a charm even after six years. With updated RAM (16GB bought from OLX) and SSD (DIY), it can beat any new laptop currently selling for less than 60 K.

Alas, Apple decides to go with unibody and stop manual upgrading. Hence, the current 2015 MBP is going to be my last MacBook.