[SnS_12]

Originally Posted by RohanDheman

Make that 2 CB 400s please!

Touring bike, CB 400 and the Ducati to be displayed in the study.. How many more left in the secret wish list??

Originally Posted by RohanDheman

Arya-

I was always wondering what is printed on the aadhar cards of No_fear and Athek??

For No_Fear I thought I would have to wait till he shares the banking details for the money to be wired...

[RohanDheman]

Originally Posted by SnS_12

Touring bike, CB 400 and the Ducati to be displayed in the study.. How many more left in the secret wish list??

Just the one- my baspan ka pyaar! THE Hayabusa
It was also the first ever scale model I bought. Sharing a pic



The tourer is to essentially replace the RS a few years down the line.

PS- wouldn't be a bad idea to have a closed whatsapp group of all of us here who interact frequently.

Cheers
Rohan

[no_fear]

After 2 months of ordering the cam chain tensioner, I finally got it installed on the bike. It was a major pain. First, the entire engine had to be taken apart. Then the original tensioner swapped for the Tokyo Mod tensioner. The original is auto tensioner, the new one is manual. The timing chain had to be synced also. This was a bit too technical so I had to ask the ex-Motoroyale technician from the Dehradun shop to come down and help. As Motoroyale closed down in Dehradun, the technician was more than willing to travel to Delhi and work on the bike. While the engine was stripped apart, I used 4 bottles of carb cleaner to clean out the engine thoroughly. Swapped the current coolant for engine ice. Took apart the rear sprocket, bike chain, cleaned them and put them back on. Finally I had ordered the F4 tank guard from Motografix, so got that installed.

Total work done on the bike over 3 days

Day 1 - stripping apart engine, swapping tensioners, cleaning engine body
Day 2 - coolant change and flush, rear sprocket and drive chain cleaned
Day 3 - bike run and tested to check repair work

Through the checks, we realized that the clutch plate will need to be changed later. The bike was subject to over-revs by the usual Insta crowd / posers before I bought it. It's never a good idea to rev Italian bikes during cold start. Well, my thoughts on these posers are well enunciated before, so no point beating the dead horse. I will order a new clutch plate on the next major service due (at 20k kms).

Total damage is the following

Tokyo Mod part - USD 145 + Rs 2,414 customs duty
Labour charges - Rs 18,000
Carb cleaner - 4 bottles Rs 2,500
Engine ice - Rs 3,500

A total of about Rs 37,000 damage to my wallet. After the bike was serviced and I planned to ride it home, the skies opened up. And it rained. The rain did not stop. I had the bike polished and cleaned, so it was a eff it moment. Called up the tow truck, paid the guy Rs 2,700, wrapped the bike in clear plastic and towed it home.

New tank guard attached I put painters tape to hold the tank guard in place for the next 24 hours.



The OEM cam tensioner - the spring inside is loose, as a result, the tensioner is releasing the timing chain slower. The chain slaps against the engine body making an awful din. I asked my FNG to keep the OEM part, and replace the spring. Then it should be good as new. Always helps to have a back up part. The manual tensioner can be adjusted by lifting the airbox and using a screwdriver. The bike runs better with the manual tensioner.



A few other beauties that are waiting to be fixed by my FNG.

[doga]

Originally Posted by no_fear

After 2 months of ordering the cam chain tensioner, I finally got it installed on the bike. It was a major pain. First, the entire engine had to be taken apart. Then the original tensioner swapped for the Tokyo Mod tensioner. The original is auto tensioner, the new one is manual.

Hi, new member here. You've got an envious bike collection there my friend. I'd kill to have a garage like that! I have been following yours( and many other's) superbike threads here prior to joining and have to say that they are very detailed and informative threads. The F4 is drop dead gorgeous and has been one of my favourite bikes for a long time, especially in the red silver scheme(although I also dig the Senna livery). I'd definitely own one one day when my wallet allows.

Curious why you had to take the engine apart for replacing the tensioner? Isn't it a traditional IL4 cradled inside a trellis frame layout? The CCT should really stick out on the right side, although access can be an issue sometimes with these compact designs but really if one has to take the engine apart just to replace the CCT, then it is a bad design in my opinion. Or did you mean you had to drop the engine for better access and may be also because you had planned to replace the cam chain as well?

[no_fear]

Originally Posted by doga

Hi, new member here.......
Curious why you had to take the engine apart for replacing the tensioner? Isn't it a traditional IL4 cradled inside a trellis frame layout? The CCT should really stick out on the right side, although access can be an issue sometimes with these compact designs but really if one has to take the engine apart just to replace the CCT, then it is a bad design in my opinion. Or did you mean you had to drop the engine for better access and may be also because you had planned to replace the cam chain as well?

Welcome to the forum and thanks for following the threads. You raised a very good question. I thought that replacing CCT will be a 10 minute job. But the tensioner sits snug deep inside the engine.

The bigger challenge is not replacing the CCT. You have to sync the CCT + timing chain with the engine so that it works properly. It is a tedious job. For that you have to dismantle the engine. Plus its a manual tensioner so you need to check for timing chain slack tolerance (1 - 2 mm). I attached some pics showing how the whole thing should look. I am not replacing the cam chain. It is in good shape. I had to replace the CCT only.







Anyways after all was said and done, I thought I was in the clear. Planned a Sunday ride with the F4 to see if everything is ship shape. After a few kms of riding, I realized that there is air in the coolant, as a result coolant was leaking out of the overflow pipe. Also, the timing chain hits against the engine case at low rpm of 1500 - 2000.

Decided to take it back to my FNG to flush out the coolant and re-fill it again. At the same time, adjust the CCT by 1 mm to sort out the noise and check the slack and play of the timing chain.

Man plans, god laughs.

Got hit by crazy rain on the way to the FNG. But the bike handled smoothly. I had set the highest setting of traction control + wet mode, so it was a dream. With the cool weather, there was no engine heating, so made it to the FNG and the bike goes for its check. Will have to clean and polish it again.

Judging by the pictures I have posted on this thread, a big chunk are of the F4 sitting at the FNG.

[krishnaprasadgg]

Originally Posted by no_fear

Welcome to the forum and thanks for following the threads. You raised a very good question. I thought that replacing CCT will be a 10 minute job. But the tensioner sits snug deep inside the engine.

"In today's episode of why mechanics hate engineers", this should have been the correct title for the post.

At least the Japanese engineers are kind to technicians in the case of the CCT because it's almost every time on the right side of the engine given that the cam chain is located in that place.
But coincidently, in the R1, the Coolant temp sensor is located at the exact same spot as the CCT for the Agusta. I came across this while doing some checks with Rachit for some mod on his bike. Makes me shudder to think of the work I will need to do if at all that sensor goes Kaput! This is where I hope the Japanese reliability would save my rear.

Attaching a few pics of the same just for reference.





I can almost hear the engineer's evil chuckles when looking at the pic.

Cheers
Krishna

[no_fear]

Originally Posted by krishnaprasadgg

"In today's episode of why mechanics hate engineers", this should have been the correct title for the post.

At least the Japanese engineers are kind to technicians in the case of the CCT because it's almost every time on the right side of the engine given that the cam chain is located in that place. But coincidently, in the R1, the Coolant temp sensor is located at the exact same spot as the CCT for the Agusta. I came across this while doing some checks with Rachit for some mod on his bike.

Truer words were never said before dear friend. The sheer lunacy of engineers always comes out when we work with engines. Why on earth does R1 have the temperature sensor stuck in the middle? I am sure the engineer designing it must have thought "bet the temperature is the hottest smack middle of the engine, so let me stick the sensor here".

[doga]

Originally Posted by no_fear

Welcome to the forum and thanks for following the threads. You raised a very good question. I thought that replacing CCT will be a 10 minute job. But the tensioner sits snug deep inside the engine.

Well, I am shocked that timing adjustment or even chain slack adjustment on the F4 requires dismantling. Or may be I am interpretation of the term dismantling is different, in this context, to yours. Typically, for replacing the tensioner, one has to pop the ignition cover off on the right bottom, ensure the piston is in TDC, pop the valve cover off and be doubly sure that it's indeed in TDC by inspecting the timing marks align properly on the cams with the head, replace the tensioner and release the(usually spring loaded) plunger in and then make sure the marks still align. All of this ensures that you don't hear that feared boom of valves meeting piston when you crank the engine after putting everything together- nervous stuff, I agree!
Again I am using the word 'typical' from a Japanese reference as I have only ever changed CCTs on Jap bikes-a ZX10 and a CBR600 which doesn't really apply to the Italian bikes, but then again, the F4, at least from engine configuration/layout perspective is not very Italian, probably the only IL4 on a popular Italian sports bike.

I still can't wrap my head around the fact that you had to dismantle the whole engine for that? Even from the diagram you posted above, it seems to me that even for replacing the timing chain and guides all you'd have to do is take the cams off just like any Jap bike. The chain slack adjustment can also be done with the engine in situ like any other Jap bike, at least that's what I am inferring from the diagram you pasted. You do not even have to drop the engine, dismantling should really be out of question. As I have written before, your posts have been incredibly detailed and obviously you know good stuff about motorcycles, so pretty sure the mechanic cannot easily take you for a ride, so hopefully he hasn't billed you for complete dismantling/dropping of engine. Or may be as I wrote above, my interpretation of dismantling is different and may be all you meant was popping the valve cover. Of course you may have to get rid of the tank and throttle bodies and other ancillaries before you pop the valve cover, but that's a different matter altogether.

Your statement on the F4 spending majority of time in the FNG made me chuckle. You bought an MV, so you shall suffer

Originally Posted by krishnaprasadgg

"In today's episode of why mechanics hate engineers", this should have been the correct title for the post.

The temperature sensor in many Jap bikes from the mid 2000 and later gens started appearing near the thermostat which I think is for more accurate measurements. Prior to that it used to be in the radiator which made access a doddle. In my (erstwhile) ZX, getting to the thermostat was no mean feat, so shall be in your case as well. From the picture the sensor, in the R1, is to the right of the thermostat? So at a minimum, you'd have to take the tank off, throttle bodies off and probably bunch of other parts to make the access better. Good luck!
Actually usually you'd be replacing both and not only the sensor as if you are having heating issues etc. and you have dug this far, you won't take the chance of putting it all together and realizing you'd have to dig again!

[no_fear]

Originally Posted by doga

Well, I am shocked that timing adjustment or even chain slack adjustment on the F4 requires dismantling. Or may be I am interpretation of the term dismantling is different, in this context, to yours.

.......but then again, the F4, at least from engine configuration/layout perspective is not very Italian, probably the only IL4 on a popular Italian sports bike.

I still can't wrap my head around the fact that you had to dismantle the whole engine for that?.......

pretty sure the mechanic cannot easily take you for a ride, so hopefully he hasn't billed you for complete dismantling/dropping of engine. Or may be as I wrote above, my interpretation of dismantling is different and may be all you meant was popping the valve cover. Of course you may have to get rid of the tank and throttle bodies and other ancillaries before you pop the valve cover, but that's a different matter altogether.

Your statement on the F4 spending majority of time in the FNG made me chuckle. You bought an MV, so you shall suffer

@Doga

Welcome to the insanity of working with Italian engines. While the MV is an I4, the CCT sits behind the radiator. To access it, I have to remove the tank, throttle body, crank case before I can get to the engine. I am not taking the engine body apart. So yes, your statement here is more appropriate - "Of course you may have to get rid of the tank and throttle bodies and other ancillaries before you pop the valve cover, but that's a different matter altogether"

[doga]

Originally Posted by no_fear

@Doga
I am not taking the engine body apart.

Alright mate, makes sense now then, thanks.
I noticed you mentioned the chain slack specs. Did you use some fancy instrument to measure it or just plain feel?
Yes, I did notice the location of the CCT, snuggled between the exhaust ports. At a minimum you'd have to displace the radiator-don't think the radiator has to be removed, just unscrewing the mounting points and pushing it down would probably suffice?- and then remove the headers as no way it's possible to do it with the headers in. May be in theory you can stick a long range screwdriver in between the headers after may be removing the front wheel and fenders etc, but access would still be difficult I think.

The CCT on the f4i and the 929/954 fireBlades were notoriously failure prone and at least on the f4i the access was a nightmare as it sat snug behind the right frame beam. I probably replaced the CCT on that bike 3-4 times over 20k odd miles and each time it was nightmare, so can understand your pain.

Your decision to go manual on the F4 is a good one, especially given it's a garage queen(no offence- with those many finicky Italian beauties you cannot rake in 10k kms on each every year can you?). I'd not recommend going manual on a bike which does good miles every year as you'd have to adjust it every 10k odd miles and it can be very difficult to get right each time. You get it too tight and there's a high pitched whine, not to mention the damage to the guides and the stretch on the chain leading to premature wear and worse a snapped chain eventually. Too lose, and you get the bees in a can noise and may be even the possibility of jumping a tooth sending your timing out of whack which would lead to you know what.
One good trick to get it reasonably right at least at the time of going manual in absence of specialized tools is to make sure you remove the CCT without retracting the plunger. One has to do this very slowly and patiently as the chain would be pushing against the CCT mounting screws and there's a risk of damaging the threads needing costly repairs(well a tap and dye probably would be ok even then but why go that way?). Trick is to unscrew both mounting screws slowly together, little by little one at a time such that the CCT seems to come out of the block without any slant ensuring both screws have more or less the same force from the chain.
This way, when the CCT comes out, you actually know how much the plunger
was extending inside the block and then start from their for your manual CCT and then go one or two turns more to make it tight enough. It's obviously a trial and error method after if one does not have the means to measure chain slack accurately or doesn't want to take the pain, but at least you know that you have done no worse than the stock CCT which was on the bike before.

[SnS_12]

Originally Posted by no_fear

LOL - That bike was fixed by my FNG.

I can give you the history straight up on this bike.

Asking price is Rs 15 lacs, which is way too high, given its prior accident history.

This bike finally found a prominent home in Delhi at this price?

[no_fear]

Originally Posted by SnS_12

This bike finally found a prominent home in Delhi at this price?

Yep it did. A prominent doctor (he's my friend and I ride with him occasionally) took the bike home. He was looking for the F4 for a while. Kudos to him. I wish him well. He is very knowledgeable and will take good care of the bike. Might meet up with him later on my F4.

[SnS_12]

Originally Posted by no_fear

He is very knowledgeable and will take good care of the bike.

That I am sure he will knowing the bikes he has in his collection and how well they are maintained

Dealer knows his business well and knew he would receive his asking price sooner or later..

[no_fear]

Originally Posted by SnS_12

Dealer knows his business well and knew he would receive his asking price sooner or later..

This one I am not sure. I am guessing there was some negotiation involved as the bike was not on the market. It was not offered for sale to anyone but kept in the shop.

A bit off topic, but I lost respect for the dealer - NS One. They pulled the same stunt as any other 2nd hand scammy dealer. They "sold" a BMW S 1000 belonging to a famous Youtuber to this Delhi vlogger who I absolutely detest (the one who posts riding on the Delhi Agra highway at 200kmph+). The vlogger kept it for a few months, made several videos claiming he bought the bike and then returned the bike back to NS One. It is now on sale as "single owner" bike. A lot of people called out the dealer on the FB ad and then the posts were all removed. Its a bloody shame. This business seems to lack any ethics or transparency

[SnS_12]

Interesting.. Since the dude mentions the dealers in his vlogs he gets them new clientele.. Does he still have his GSXR so it stayed with him briefly in a similar way?

I have seen so many comments from potential owners from other states willing to buy a bike by just looking at pictures and posts which says, well kept, loaded with lacs of accessories and professional packing and delivery across India..

Not the wisest bunch of people when it comes to getting their money's worth.. As I said earlier all the dealer needs is one such guy to fall for every new listing he has..