[evilmessiah]

Thank you neil for the review. As usual, thanked your posts for the nice writeup and pics. If I was still riding, I would have gone for this or the CBR650F/R.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

When you add in Honda's low cost of ownership, cheap spares (God forbid you have an accident on a big bike, you will know what I mean! A pair of alloys from the competition can cost between Rs 90K to 1.2 L. With the Honda, it is Rs 20K), overall consistent service experience pan-India, the CB650R starts making a very strong case for itself.

That Big Wing dealership in Vytilla, Kochi is one of the better run dealerships in Kochi. Is Dipu still the manager there? He is a well built fair guy with a heart of gold. Bless him- he had let me ride the CBR650F a long time back. The only problem is that Honda might not be having stocks readily (but that might be true for most bike service bays).

Note for potential Honda buyers in Kochi: avoid the Muthoot Honda service center- there are chances to get fleeced if you're not careful.

[BennyA23]

Whats up with that inverted CB?

[klgiridhar]

Very nice and crisp review. Thanks for sharing it with us.

I remember you saying this on the CB650 thread:

At the end of the day, it's another great option for us as customers. Sure, it may not appeal to 9 out of 10 enthusiasts here or in the real world, but that 10th person will be super excited to bring home an inline 4 from Honda.

I think your review reinforces your above statement about Honda's premium offerings in India. These are beautiful bikes and the value that is perceived from a product differs from person to person. Not everything can be valuated from on-papers specs. From all the reviews I have seen on the product, I don't think there is any other middleweight street naked in India that is as inviting as the CB is for a beginner, at the same time - being very explosive when you need it and combined with a sizeable pillion seat, the reliability, peace of mind and cheaper maintenance costs associated with a Honda, make it a really good offering. If I was in the market for this class of bike, I will definitely be that 10th guy .

[sandeepmohan]

The proportions of this Honda don't seem all that bigger than a KTM 390. Quite amazing how they have managed this while keeping it rider friendly.

Nice concise review.

[neil.jericho]

First off, a big thanks to every single one of you for your very kind words of appreciation. I really am humbled by all your replies. I had actually planned to do a short 30 minute ride and then if I liked it, I had told the Big Wing Honda sales team that I would need a longer one in a few week's time. They have readily agreed to this, knowing fully well that I will really enjoy my time with the bike. In fact, my 30 mintues easily became an hour!

aargee - Excellent points. On pillion comfort, I dont know if I myself would make for a good pillion as I have hardly spent any time in the pillion seat on any motorbike. And I dont like putting my life in the hands of other riders, especially if I dont know how they ride.

On RVM coverage and the suspension, I will definitely be able to give a firm view once I do the longer test ride.

Axe77 - For a short period of time, the bike was in non forum friendly speeds and I didnt feel the windblast. That said, for longer periods of riding, a windscreen would be a very smart upgrade to consider. That reminds me, the one thing which I would also do is add a nice pair of grips to the bike. Maybe Ive got too used to riding with grips on both my bikes, and now I find the regular accelerators to be too small. I noticed the same while riding at the Royal Enfield Continental GT Cup selections. But that is a story for another thread.

On your next bike, I think you cannot go wrong with the Africa Twin. On post sales experiences, Honda is the clear winner by a huge margin. Capability wise, well enough and more has been said on the motorcycle. Just wait for the thread from two TBHPians who took their Africa Twin and VStrom 650 to Spiti.

The question on whether I would consider selling the Triple 675 for the CB650R is a good one. Honestly, the only reason that I took a test ride of the CB650R is because of the horrendous service stories that are quietly coming out from the Triumph circles in Kerala. Owners are speaking out more and more about some of the egregious and extremely dangerous service mistakes and that severely dents the prospect of a long term ownership experience. The less said about the local Triumph dealership, the better.

Though I know most of the sales guys in all the superbike dealerships here, I dont usually take test rides unless I have something planned. Now, Ive started thinking about a more peace of mind superbike ownership experience. And that is something which the Triumph Kerala dealership cannot provide.

Maverick_4662 - Here is the price list. I would suggest that you test ride the Honda as well before you make a final choice. If you want the contact numbers of the gentlemen at the dealership, just DM me. I can connect you to them.

sunilch - I am 5'10" and the ergos worked perfectly for me. Do consider handlebar risers as an option for some of the bikes that you are looking at.

AtheK - I think the vibrations were magnified because this is a test ride bike that has likely taken some abuse and high revving. That said, yes, the dealership has to keep their bikes in top condition or else potential customers will pick up on such annoyances. A TBHPian knows a CB650R owner and Ive asked him to just check that bike to see if there are similar vibrations on that bike. I doubt that it will be there.

aneesh2M - For better or worse, we tend to judge these big bikes solely on the spec sheet and price. I too am guilty of it, especially on the superbike threads. But nothing beats actually riding these bikes and experiencing them first hand. Keeping aside post purchase headaches, tomorrow if I had to buy either the Triumph 765 (R or RS) or the Honda CB650R, I would buy the Honda, even if it is more expensive than the Triumph.

amey910 - I will ask the Honda guys about this.

bf1983 - If you are keen to test ride it, just drop a note to Big Wing Honda on their website and they will swing into action.

Rocketscience - As mentioned above, it is probably a case of the test bike not being in top condition. I have test ridden the CBR650F in the past and didnt find this many vibes.

evilmessiah - They have moved from Janatha (Vytilla) to the old Ducati showroom that is alongside the Porsche showroom. Deepu is still there and they have a new CRM Shehenshah as well. Both of them are very friendly and helped arrange the test ride for me. So thumbs up to them. On the question of stocks, yes, Honda India does have limited stocks left for 2021 but from what I saw in a Triumph group yesterday, Triumph doesnt have any stocks either and everything is on back order.

BennyA23 - It looks like someone accidentally stuck it upside down!

klgiridhar - Perfectly summed up. I find myself being number 10 as well. Moving up from a smaller bike like say an R15 to naked big bike is something that may appeal to many but most of these big bikes can get you in a lot of trouble, very quickly. So, you will either ride in fear and barely scratch the surface of the bike's capabilities or you will go with the flow and inevitably, find yourself in the bushes. A friendly middleweight bike is the perfect stepping stone to move the ladder and the Honda CB650R is just that.

[loki]

Great Review Neil. I agree - 650cc is about the sweet spot for use cases in India. But the heart always craves for more I sold my Fabulous CBR650F a few years ago and have been missing it dearly.

Originally Posted by Rocketscience

Vibrations are what bothers me the most since i feel them in my r15 and hate them (no they are not at all excessive but irritating nonetheless and i always feel something is broken since i have never driven a vehicle with vibrations) and these 4 cylinder engines sound silky smooth and with my experience in cars i felt they will be super smooth too, although i had read about some faint vibes in particular RPM ranges but learning the fact that they are prominent sounds like a big turn off to me, shockingly even the 2 cylinder RE Interceptor hardly had any noticeable vibrations to speak off, this is a much superior bike.

All inline-4s have vibes - although at different RPM ranges. My CBR650F had vibes pop in between 3200 to 4k RPM (I guess). I added grip puppies (foam based grips) which reduced the effect a bit. I also tried heavier bar ends. but those just shifted the Vibes to a different RPM range. But it isn't too much of a concern for bikes like the CB650 which have a more upright position. On Supersports, it might be a little more irritating as there is more weight on the wrists due to the forward lean.

[Rocketscience]

Originally Posted by loki

All inline-4s have vibes - although at different RPM ranges. My CBR650F had vibes pop in between 3200 to 4k RPM (I guess). I added grip puppies (foam based grips) which reduced the effect a bit. I also tried heavier bar ends. but those just shifted the Vibes to a different RPM range. But it isn't too much of a concern for bikes like the CB650 which have a more upright position. On Supersports, it might be a little more irritating as there is more weight on the wrists due to the forward lean.

Thanks for your response, i have concluded that since hardly any 4 cylinder cars have vibrations even till 6500 rpm but bikes do, it must be because of engines being stressed member of the chassis, as opposed to engine mounts in cars which must be working overtime to isolate the vibrations, still i never expected them to vibrate since they sound silky smooth!

Also, just to be clear are vibrations just limited to a particular revv range in your bike (and perhaps all 4 cylinder bikes) and the bike is super smooth above and below that range or do the vibrations start from that range and progressively get worse?

[loki]

Originally Posted by Rocketscience

Also, just to be clear are vibrations just limited to a particular revv range in your bike (and perhaps all 4 cylinder bikes) and the bike is super smooth above and below that range or do the vibrations start from that range and progressively get worse?

Just the RPM range. And it's conspicuous only because the rest of the range is so butter smooth. It's nothing like the vibes in an old Harley though. For most people it won't even be an issue considering you won't even get a chance to take your Inline 4 to 4000rpm that often.

[Rachit.K.Dogra]

I recently test rode the new CBR650R and was quite pleasantly blown away with what it has become now. Have owned the 650F for more than 5 years, really loved what the new 650R represents.

Here are some of quick observations:
1) Looks, I mean the bike just looks much sportier and hawter.
2) Fit and finish also seems to be a step up from the 650F. The mix and match of different colored surfaces really look upmarket.
3) The riding position is definitely sportier and feels just right for cornering. I am a short person, the riding position was very natural and near perfect for me.
4) The highlight is the suspension and brakes for me. The suspension feels so much more sophisticated now. I rode the bike on a tarred but rough tarmac and I could feels the suspension just gliding, yet feeling direct with the road.
5) The brakes were just top notch stuff. Really impressed by the riding experience the bike now offers.
6) It is as close to a super sport riding experience you can get without actually getting a super sport.

Dislikes:
1) Headlights seemed worse than before.
2) The engine seemed a lot buzzier than what was in 650F. Maybe because it was the test ride bike. But because of this buzziness, it felt that the engine was working harder than it actually was.

I wouldn't mind paying the asking price of this bike as it genuinely felt properly developed to me now.

Rachit

[aneesh2M]

Hi Neil, I completely agree with your view and I too would pick up a Honda over a triumph or any other manufacturer other than Japs. but if you see the pricing then its inevitable for majority of potential buyers to look for an alternative like Z900, which in my opinion a hell of a good bike and value for money. if you talk about service cost then yes Honda is cheaper but then they have already charged you a premium in buying cost which levels the advantage. if you look for damaged parts then a 0 dep insurance is always there to back you up.
In fact I am in the market for a bike and am a Honda fan (currently owning a CBR 250r) I waited for CBR 650 launch for an year but was disappointed by the price.
I would have still got the CBR but a big disappointment came in as no selling dealer in my City Pune. I have to get the bike from Mumbai and for each service get a service guy from Mumbai paying Rs.2300 extra. Avoiding Pune to get a Big wing is a big mistake by HMSI IMO, its just not worth the efforts to pay so much for 650cc and again struggle for its upkeep in future.

[GoBlue]

Originally Posted by aneesh2M

but if you see the pricing then its inevitable for majority of potential buyers to look for an alternative like Z900, which in my opinion a hell of a good bike and value for money

With due respect to your opinion, yes the Z900 is a good package.

However, there are literally dozens of videos on YouTube where owners are reporting frequent stalling issues which require service center visits to either clean the throttle bodies and/or tweak the idle RPM adjuster.

A bike stalling when being ridden is a downright safety hazard, and more importantly, it wouldn’t feel nice to have this happen during ownership.

It is said that owners who are filling 95 RON+ fuel are not facing this issue, however this is hearsay and as a prospective buyer, one should look at the facts as they stand. Also, how regularly would you be able to fill 95 RON fuel? If usage is only in city that could be manageable, once you are out on a longer ride however, there are no guarantees.

This kind of problem is NOT there on any BS4/BS6 Honda and Suzuki 4-cylinder motorcycle. I have personally experienced this with my erstwhile Suzuki GSX S750, there was no stalling EVER regardless of the fuel filled.

Thus the perspective/thought I’d like to bring in here is, a motorcycle purchase isn’t just about the initial pricing or the service costs. It should be able to keep a smile plastered on one’s face throughout the ownership period. Do make sure you choose a bike that doesn’t come with known/reported issues, at the very least. If you still want to get the Z900, be mentally prepared to deal with this niggle.

While I am a massive fan of the package that the Z900 offers, I feel that Kawasaki SHOULD make sure that the bike works fine on regular 91 RON fuel. It may not make spec sheet power on 91 RON, but it should NOT stall. If that requires retuning the ECU for India, so be it.

PS: there are reports that Kawasaki is offering an ECU software update for some motorcycles, the Versys 1000 and the Ninja 1000. Existing owners can chime in here. One needs to check if the Z900 is included. And more importantly, whether the issue is resolved after the ECU flash, would only be known after the bike is ridden extensively.

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by aneesh2M

Hi Neil, I completely agree with your view and I too would pick up a Honda over a triumph or any other manufacturer other than Japs. but if you see the pricing then its inevitable for majority of potential buyers to look for an alternative like Z900, which in my opinion a hell of a good bike and value for money. if you talk about service cost then yes Honda is cheaper but then they have already charged you a premium in buying cost which levels the advantage. if you look for damaged parts then a 0 dep insurance is always there to back you up.
In fact I am in the market for a bike and am a Honda fan (currently owning a CBR 250r) I waited for CBR 650 launch for an year but was disappointed by the price.
I would have still got the CBR but a big disappointment came in as no selling dealer in my City Pune. I have to get the bike from Mumbai and for each service get a service guy from Mumbai paying Rs.2300 extra. Avoiding Pune to get a Big wing is a big mistake by HMSI IMO, its just not worth the efforts to pay so much for 650cc and again struggle for its upkeep in future.

aneesh2M, you bring up two valid points here. Let me share my thoughts on them separately.

- No Big Wing dealership in Pune that can sell the CB650R. The dealership mix is part of Honda's expansion strategy and if Pune based superbike owners coordinate with each other, they can plan to have multiple bikes serviced in one go and split the technician's expenses between them. For a new bike, you will anyways likely take the RSA, so in the worst case that there are any issues, the bike will be sent to the dealer in Bombay and you wont have to worry.

Also, once enough Pune Honda owners come together, I am sure that the Bombay dealership will hold special service camps in Pune. I agree that it isnt the best setup but even here in Kerala, we have buyers of all big bike brands being located all across the state with the SVCs only in Cochin. Service camps happen once in 3 - 6 months in other districts and owners are happy.

- Onto the price, I think this is the lesser of the two concerns. Based on paper specifications, yes, the Z900 gets you a lot of bang for your buck. But as GoBlue rightly pointed out, it comes with its own price. You will have to keep getting the throttle body cleaned as the bike is engineered to run on 95 RON fuel. I have verified this with the Kawasaki dealership several years ago and posted about it on the forum.

And from what we have seen here, the team at the Kawasaki Pune service center is not very technically proficient. Jumping back to the 1st point, would you rather have an incompetent team based in your city work on your Z900 or would you rather pay a small premium (that balances out the service cost savings) for getting a trained technician to come to Pune and work on your CB650R that can run perfectly well on regular fuel?

Also, is Honda really charging a major premium for the CB650R? Here are the ex showroom prices from the interwebs.
Kawasaki Z900 : Rs 8.42 L
Honda CB650R : Rs 8.68 L
Triumph Street Triple R : Rs 9.41 L

Keeping aside all the other factors such as ease of use with one bike versus the other, touring ability, location and count of service centers, long term service costs, spares availability etc, I would happily pay the delta for a middleweight bike that run perfectly well on regular fuel. I dont need to worry about carrying fuel additives while touring, checking for stalling, throttle body cleaning etc.

As you are an existing Honda owner, I would suggest that you rethink your decision to stay away from the Honda CB650R. It really does pack in all the Honda goodness into an easy to love package. I know that one fellow TBHPian has recently switched tracks from looking at an European brand and is in the process of picking up a brand new CB650R. I have a feeling that we will slowly see more of these Honda 650s on our forum.

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by aneesh2M

I would have still got the CBR but a big disappointment came in as no selling dealer in my City Pune. I have to get the bike from Mumbai and for each service get a service guy from Mumbai paying Rs.2300 extra. Avoiding Pune to get a Big wing is a big mistake by HMSI IMO, its just not worth the efforts to pay so much for 650cc and again struggle for its upkeep in future.

If your decision is principally based on lack of Pune dealership can you please recheck this. I was under the impression that a Big Wing has recently opened or is about to open in Pune as well. Perhaps you can inquire further on this aspect.

Rupee for rupee if the cost is the same, I’d struggle to reject a Z900 over the 650 Honda. It’s just half a segment higher in my opinion. I don’t know about the fuel and ECU issues though and if these are very much a concern then I would definitely happily pick the Honda “just between these two” for sheer peace of mind. On a wider canvass of course I’d most likely pick the 765R over both.

If your budget is a little flexible please dont rule out the 765 Striple. The good thing is Pune is perhaps one of the best sales and service setups within the Triumph network - and they’re fantastic by any yardstick - not the low bar set by B’lore and some other cities.

[aneesh2M]

@Axe77, Thanks a lot for the feedback, and yes I stayed away from CBR only because Big Wing Pune are authorized to sell and service only bikes up to 500cc. They cannot Sell CBR650R.
As you said I would be stretching my budget and now thinking of going for Kawasaki Ninja 1000SX. That's one bike one cannot go wrong with. I thought about Triumph but basically I am not so keen on naked and moreover comfortable with Japanese machines.
would appreciate your views on NINJA1000sx.

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by TheHelix0202

OT, but quoting you from that thread: Do you mean that the hazard lights blink while the bike is on the move? What do you think is the reason? Or is it because of some factory / showroom setting? I believe I’ve seen some YouTubers having their superbike’s blinkers On and always assumed it to be a result of their bragging / attention seeking nature.

TheHelix0202, your observation is correct. In India, I noticed that there are many riders who go for solo and group rides with their blinkers on all the time. The original intent was to increase visibility but then it became a cool thing to have. This started off in the Harley community, as far as I know. Now you will find every bike from a 100cc Bajaj to a litre class bike with these flashers.

However, there is another unfortunate new trend that is starting to pick up in the motorcycling world. OEMs are now creating motorcycles where the indicators come on when the brakes are applied. This is dangerous because if you are slowing down for a turn, then both your indicators are on (due to the brakes) and the people behind you wont know that you are simultaneously indicating to turn. The new BMW S1000RR is one motorcycle that comes with this feature that has been widely panned.

Does the Honda have the indicators with brakes on, like the BMW S1000RR? I dont know but I remember thinking to myself that the indicators sometimes look to be on, while I was riding. I will find out more when I visit the Honda showroom in future.