[aneesh2M]

Hello everyone, this is my first new thread on this forum so please excuse me for any mistakes.

I am creating this thread to seek advice and help from you guys on purchase of new superbike.


I am in the market for a superbike since last 1 year but could not get one due to reasons like lock-downs and bike I was looking for was not launched in the market.


Before I go to new bike requirements let me tell you little bit about my riding history. I am based in Pune and riding since last 20+ years and owned the bikes like Kinetic Honda, Bajaj Caliber, Hero Honda CBZ, Honda Unicorn, Bajaj Avenger and Honda CBR250R. Kinetic and Caliber now sold I still own rest of the bikes and CBR 250R is my currant highway ride. I have owned the CBR since 2012 Dec. and now I want to upgrade to something with more power.

Now coming back to the topic. I had fixed my purchase decision on HONDA CBR650R but unfortunately by the time I could book it in BS4 Version the same was sold out. I waited for almost a year and half for the launch of the new BS6 version and when finally, it was launched in BS6 version I got a big shocker with 2 things. One was price, which is bit overpriced for a 650cc bike can justify and second was the stupid policy of HONDA not selling it in my city Pune. So I have to buy it and get it serviced from Big Wing Mumbai. Around 150 Kms away one way from my home.


Looking at this I decided to skip the CBR (was not very easy decision), increase my budget and buy a Ninja 1000SX which is costing almost 3lacs more than CBR. Still I felt that I should stretch the budget and go for it as it is a 1000cc machine and with lots of features loaded.

I was almost in the mood of booking the same and here comes a review of ‘abhisheksircar’ on his 2021 CBR 650R. After reading it my mind again stated swinging and telling me ‘Go for the CBR650 as after all HONDA is your 1st love and what will you do with 1000cc on Indian roads, CBR650 is your bike’. So now I am again in 2 minds and all my thoughts of getting a Ninja are unstable now. I know Ninja has a better package for the price we pay but one mind of me is telling me CBR is more practical as 70% of the features and 1000cc potential will never be used by me on Indian roads. IMO 9.5 Lacs is the best max price justified for CBR650R but I’m thinking of that extra premium of a lakh or so to be paid for CBR 650R as a price to get the Honda and cheaper long term ownership. (I know Kawasaki’s are also as reliable as Hondas but services and long term spares like Brake Pads, Spark Plugs, Chain/sprocket are way cheaper in Honda then Kawasaki). Also though many features and electronics on Ninja makes it a lovely package to own at the price point they may not be used almost 70% of times on Indian roads. And taking my bike on track is a 5% possibility max.


So friends here I am with a great confusion in my mind seeking your valuable advice on the big purchase. To make matter easier I have made a comparison matrix for both the bikes considering my usage. Please go through it. Yellow shows the advantages of Ninja but which can be lived over happily in CBR as those are not a big deal for my riding style. Green are definite advantages of CBR650R and Orange is definite disadvantage of CBR650R.

Thanks in advance.

[aargee]

My pick will be CBR 650R for the following reasons:

• Extra 3L for a SBK & get to use max 50% of it's potential versus CBR 650R's 80% potential
• SBK maintenance cost & spares always costs more in long term compared to middle weight, so there's significant cost saving in long run
• The extra cost of buying the 1000SX can be put to good use of buying fantastic riding gears
• ASC is far? Good opportunity to ride + the servicing is going to be only once a year affair
• And if one is a good rider, the riding modes seldom makes difference
• More features? More electronics? Are not fun when the electronics conk off, they're expensive repairs not covered under insurance

[Potatopoco]

Hi Aneesh, wish I was in your position of choosing between these two lovely beauties. I hope you have taken a test ride of both bikes by now.

Short version: Get the Screaming CBR650R. Follow your heart. You don't want to be riding with regret for the next 6-7 years.

Long version: It is evident that your heart is set on CBR650R. This is a classic Head vs Heart scenario. IMO you are not supposed to get the bike with the best features for a price, but get the one that connects with your heart the most.
All the positives that you have listed out for CBR650R are correct.
Imagine paying three big ones extra(and possibly two more for accessories) and then looking down and seeing green color for the next 5-10 years.
Do you really want that?

[GoBlue]

Would recommend the Ninja 1000 (liter class) over a 650cc if budget permits.

You may become disenchanted with the 650cc after a while.

There’s truly no replacement to displacement. It’s a myth that the power cannot be utilised on our roads. In gear acceleration is fun on liter class bikes, in comparison the CBR650R’s engine would need to be revved up to get any fun out of it.

There’s really not much point in spending money on the CBR650R to begin with, only to sell it and spend more money for faster upgrades after a couple of years.

It is a myth that Honda’s service is cheap. Besides the first 3 services that have free labour, rest of the services are bi-yearly paid services. One ends up paying as much for two paid services of a 650R as one would for a Triumph Street Triple (yearly service). Also do note that you are paying for a Honda that’s over-priced by 1.5-2l, so any saving in service cost has already been offset by the higher acquisition cost. The BS4 CBR650R was priced fairly, BS6 is surely overpriced.

Also, the CBR650R does not get any kind of modern equipment. It is NOT a premium bike (buzzy engine in the mid range, lacks adjustable suspension, no-TFT, no electronics or IMU-based riding aids), while the N1K feels a couple of notches better in terms of build quality and refinement. Even ride quality is much better on the N1K (with adjustable suspension).

Kawasaki service is in Pune, while the Honda needs to be serviced at Mumbai - however that should not be the criteria to select or reject a bike. Would suggest to choose the better product overall, which is undoubtedly the Ninja 1000. Buying the better product may provide long term satisfaction.

If you’re okay with a roadster, the Triumph Street Triple 765R is a much better package than the Honda. The Triumph 765 Triple has leagues better engine refinement than Honda’s 650cc four cylinder.

[VellVector]

I would definitely get the Ninja 1000 over the CBR. It is a step up in every possible sense. Unfortunately the CBR is a mid-range bike being sold at a premium price point in India.

Also I wouldn't agree with you that both a litre class and a 650 would be the same to ride on the road. Top end power is not the only thing to look at, torque in a litre class bike is far higher than that of the 650 - no matter what you cannot replace displacement to get that kick.

Finally, don't consider going to Bombay for every service to be non-consequential while taking a decision. It will end up becoming a nuisance especially when the bike needs to spend more than a day at the service centre or if it has any small issues that need to be fixed or adjusted which would require a trip for just that.

Originally Posted by aneesh2M

‘Go for the CBR650 as after all HONDA is your 1st love and what will you do with 1000cc on Indian roads, CBR650 is your bike’.

Finally this line stood out to me and it's obvious in your post you are justifying reasons to buy the CBR. In this category of bike, I always say more than your head you need to be led by your heart. As long as you are happy and love the bike, nothing else really matters.

So if you have test-ridden both, would go with the bike you connect with.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

To be honest, that spreadsheet looks like you trying hard to convince yourself that the CBR is the better deal.

Personal opinion - Nope! Get the Ninja and make up for the extra 2.5 lakhs over a longer term ownership. Heart over mind.

Some of your consideration sets and my opinion on it -
1. Engine - 650cc vs 1000cc. You have considered power alone, what you will miss out later is the torque, rideability and refinement - which are all better on the Ninja IMHO.
2. Sophisticated electronics - It's not for using when needed, it is to save the bike when critical - stuff like cornering ABS and lean sensitive IMU might mean the difference between staying on the road or ending up in the grass. Of course, won't matter for a pro!
3. Service Costs - If you keep the motorcycle for a couple of years - the parts that will really affect the ownership costs are - 1. Tyres 2. Chain 3. Oil change and 4. Labour costs and 5. Brakepads. The only significant difference for the CBR will be in terms of labour costs.
4. Fuel efficiency - Isn't going to be significantly different - with the 1000 running relaxed at similar highway speeds as the 650. I think 20-21 for the CBR and 18-19 for the Ninja 1000 from what I remember, but owners can correct me here.

[AtheK]

It's tough one to decide when your heart is set on something, if you take that equation out, Ninja 1000 is much a better and versatile bike over the CBR. It's a wolf in sheep's clothing, the power delivery is linear and easy to ride, but when you want to push it, it goes like a missile.

Two up riding is better in Ninja, electronics is better in Ninja, Service Cost as said above is almost the same, in your case you will need to make two visits to Mumbai in a year, un-necessary hassle. In case of a big down time at home or near your place, even bigger hassle.

Riding modes are a boon, so is a Quickshifter, you don't need a track for using Quickshifter, it is very useful in normal day to day riding and on highways. If you think 650 CC is better for Indian roads, then even 310CC is equally good, by that comparison Apache 310RR triumphs the CBR in almost every department, except the displacement and quicker acceleration to 120, and it comes in Red, and looks smashing at that.

If you want to go with your heart just get the CBR, entire comparison is moot, but if you want to get a better bike, get the Ninja, every comparison is moot in that case. Only you can answer your own question.

[karanddd]

The CBR is much better looking than the Ninja and 30 kilos lighter. You're far more likely to consider going WOT on the CBR than the Ninja. I believe it'll be a more fun bike, and if you can live with the hassle of traveling to get service, you should go with the CBR.

[abhi_tjet]

Get the Ninja1000. It’s a fairly reliable machine. Cbr650r just doesn’t makes any sense if there is no budget constraints. Moreover, as you rightly pointed out, no dealership in Pune is as dumb as one can be.

Ninja 1000 is more future proof with latest features and safety equipments unlike Honda.

There will be more maintenance cost for Ninja, but then, it’s a bigger, powerful machine.

[manson]

Originally Posted by aneesh2M

Still I felt that I should stretch the budget and go for it as it is a 1000cc machine and with lots of features loaded.

If you really want to enjoy a liter motorcycle when you have one I would strongly recommend getting a 600/650/800/900 before that.
The Ninja 1000 is lovely motorcycle but in a bid to get maximum bang for your buck you're going to cut short the journey and experiences of motorcycling for yourself.

[VW2010]

A 1000cc is a machine to ride and enjoy. All the way from cruising to having those peppy rides. I rode an FZ1 for a year and I still miss it. I want to buy an FZ1 but most of the FZ1 are now overpriced and ruined by owners. There is no substitute for the capacity. An R6 is the only 600cc bike that I will buy over a 1000cc. The Ninja 1000cc, the new version is loaded and it will run forever. Even in the city, the 1000 cc is fun to ride around. Everything you wrote points to us trying to convince you not to buy CBR. Unfortunately, we will all fail as you love that bike. So go ahead and enjoy, as either bike is super fun. But I am 1000cc person and will pick the 1000cc for that minimal price difference.

[shancz]

Out of experience from a friend's purchase decision, I can suggest the following :
- If this is the last/only big bike you are going to own then get the Ninja.
- If you're absolutely certain that you'll get another bike post this then get the CBR.
- Most importantly, if you've already decided that a red CBR is your dream then don't listen to anyone and get that.

Few pointers :
- Ninja 1000 is pretty easy to ride in the city, very tractable motor, butter smooth, the 1000SX would be same mechanically.
- If you're concerned about the power then just use the L1 power mode which restricts the power to 100bhp. That's one of the strongest points the Kawasaki SR made to a friend which made him consider a 1000 over a 650.
- The riding modes help in our city roads, especially during rains.

PS : Seems pretty idiotic of Honda to not sell the CBR in Pune !

[bf1983]

Its an urban myth that Hondas are much cheaper to run than other superbikes. Honda spares and services are cheaper but if you use 3rd party spares you won't save much if at all. The CBR 650R after the 3 free services costs about 12k to maintain per year and the Ninja 1000 will set you back around 14k per year at any decent FNG.

The major spares you need to change are tyres and brake pads and if you use EBC brake pads then there is very little cost savings between the two. Similarly the chain sprocket combo most people use 3rd party ones from DID or JT sprockets which are much cheaper than the original spare part prices.

So net net you won't be saving a lot of money running the Honda. Now the Honda is by no means a bad bike but getting a Ninja 1000 you should be satisfied with the performance for a lot longer. Also Kawasaki often have discount schemes running so if you bargain a bit you should reduce the price by a decent margin.

[Axe77]

Between these two bikes, I’d say Ninja 1000 any day of the week. There’s simply no two ways about that. I say this without getting into your riding abilities or riding history (conscious of the valid point Manson made).

PS: Dont ever let any xls sheet tell you which is the “right” bike for you. Just my two cents. Ride each one and then decide.

PPS: If you need a thread to counterbalance Abhishekdircar’s excellent write up, please do read Karthikk’s excellent Ninja 1000 ownership thread. Although fair warning - the way Karthikk writes, he could sell a unicycle to Lieutenant Dan from Forrest Gump.

[Rachit.K.Dogra]

It is a tough one to be honest!!
I owned a CBR650F for 5.5 years and 32K KMs, test rode the new 650R recently. I also had the opportunity to ride a Ninja 1000 recently.

If it was for me, I will chose the CBR mostly because of 2 reasons.
Its a Honda. Very reliable, parts life is good and replacement parts are acceptably priced. Its a much sportier motorcycle than Ninja 1000.

I wouldn't say that CBR is a better motorcycle. Its just it suits my use case more.

I personally believe to not purely buy a motorcycle on spec sheets, features and pure features/price comparison. I try to evaluate the experience a motorcycle/car offers over numbers.

Here is my view point:
If you are sporty rider or prefer a sporty bike or you are the kind of rider who would like to push your machine and get satisfaction from your ability to push your machine to close to its potential, get the CBR.

If you prefer touring, comfort, effortless mile munching and rush of straight line acceleration, get the Ninja.

Do not dwell much on initial buying cost as much if you will keep the bike for long. A bike that makes you happy, will make it easier for you to pay up for its upkeep.

You cannot go wrong with any of these 2 motorcycles. Both are at least a couple of generations into their life cycle and fairly sorted. What matters is your use case. What do you want from your motorcycle.

Just a tip:
Be absolutely selfish and give practicality a 2nd seat when evaluating what you want from your 1st big motorcycle.

Some tangible observations on both:
1) CBR650R offers a very sophisticated riding experience in my opinion. Very sophisticated suspension, brakes and a friendly chassis will make pushing this bike a joy. A near perfect do it all bike on the sportier side.

2) Ninja is a very smooth experience with super comfort, super refined engine and an ability to munch miles only maybe an ADV can compete with. But you would not be able to utilize its full potential on most occasions.

I just have 1 gripe with the Honda. For some reason, the test ride bike felt even buzzier than my CBR650F. Fact is, it is a little buzzy engine at certain RPMs and to me it felt like the engine was working harder than it actually was. My CBR was not this buzzy. Maybe it was test ride bike thing but the Ninja is silky smooth.

I had a wonderful ownership experience with the Honda, and if I would have been in the market in this segment, my 1st pick would always be the CBR.

CHEERS!!

Rachit