[straight6]

Originally Posted by veyron1

Honda would most likely begin with the Viffer. It has been claimed so by the officials themselves.

Regarding the pricing, it seems sad that there are people who still want the superbikes to be priced the way they are. There are so many enthusiasts out there who can control these machines very well, would do anything in their power to own and maintain them, and keep them closer to their hearts than anything else. But can't do so due to the obscene pricing.

All bikes should be launched at their international prices. It's not a matter of exuberance, but affordability. People should have the option of being able to choose and afford whatever they crave for; desire to the core. Period. we aren't talking of extremities like Mcmercs or Nascar editions here. Superbikes are bare-basics. Heck, handling a Gixxer ain't like flying an F-22....

Are you forgetting which country you're in? If these things get into the wrong hands(which could be a LOT of them), it could be a disaster. The government may have to lay down strict rules just because of them which could be really frustrating. Who knows what else they might decide to do. Either that or the system for getting a license will have to be changed to something like in the UK.

With the second highest population in the world, the number of irresponsible idiots also increases big time. As you've already seen and read about the incidents that have happened on the road in the recent past, you don't want these bikes to be so affordable that every Tom , Dick and Harry can afford them and screw it up for responsible riders like you and me.

I know you want one bad, but start working towards it rather than hope they are priced low(its not going to happen with our Govt). Besides, you have the Ninja 250 to look forward to.

[maxj2005]

Originally Posted by straight6

Are you forgetting which country you're in? If these things get into the wrong hands(which could be a LOT of them), it could be a disaster. The government may have to lay down strict rules just because of them which could be really frustrating. Who knows what else they might decide to do. Either that or the system for getting a license will have to be changed to something like in the UK.

With the second highest population in the world, the number of irresponsible idiots also increases big time. As you've already seen and read about the incidents that have happened on the road in the recent past, you don't want these bikes to be so affordable that every Tom , Dick and Harry can afford them and screw it up for responsible riders like you and me.

I know you want one bad, but start working towards it rather than hope they are priced low(its not going to happen with our Govt). Besides, you have the Ninja 250 to look forward to.

There have been a few fatal super bikes accident on the greater noida expressway.Since this expressway comes under Uttar Pradesh's Jurisdiction no body stops these insane riders to go past you at 250 kmph.

They still must have paid 11.5 lacs for their R1/CBR's but did the price help?

I know what you are trying to say but a bad rider will always be a bad rider.
With power comes responsibility (just as spiderman said) which they will need to understand and honour.

In the late seventy's when the Yamaha 350 was launched it had 38BHP or something correct me if I am wrong.A lot of riders met with accidents due the sudden power in their hands.

But later on people learnt how to tame these bikes.

So I would say let there be Super bikes and let Darwin's Theory of Evolution do its job.

The Ninja 250 is no match for R1/CBR but yes people will get some taste of what a super bike can do.

[IronWolf]

Originally Posted by straight6

Are you forgetting which country you're in? If these things get into the wrong hands(which could be a LOT of them), it could be a disaster. The government may have to lay down strict rules just because of them which could be really frustrating. Who knows what else they might decide to do. Either that or the system for getting a license will have to be changed to something like in the UK.

With the second highest population in the world, the number of irresponsible idiots also increases big time. As you've already seen and read about the incidents that have happened on the road in the recent past, you don't want these bikes to be so affordable that every Tom , Dick and Harry can afford them and screw it up for responsible riders like you and me.

I know you want one bad, but start working towards it rather than hope they are priced low(its not going to happen with our Govt). Besides, you have the Ninja 250 to look forward to.

S6 - I dont agree with this logic. Pricing it high is not going to assure you of placing these babies in the right hands.

If we go by this logic, SUVs should not be sold to arrogant actors.

Pricing it right is the right thing to do for those who love to bike responsibly and cannot really 'work towards' it.

What I agree to is that we should have a strict licensing law for 500cc + bikes, something like Singapore (or something to that effect)

[bigron]

veyron1:You need to understand that people dont decide at what prices these bikes are launched.Its the Government which decides that along with the manufacturers.Incase you miss the point nobody is wanting that these bikes are priced insanley.What we are discussing here is that in a way it is nice that these bikes cant be afforded by most of the people keeping in mind the general driving habits of the people in india.And as far as these bikes go, they can bite you real bad and you wont even know what hit you.And if you say superbikes are bare basics i wonder what else is on you list.

[straight6]

Originally Posted by IronWolf

S6 - I dont agree with this logic. Pricing it high is not going to assure you of placing these babies in the right hands.

If we go by this logic, SUVs should not be sold to arrogant actors.

Pricing it right is the right thing to do for those who love to bike responsibly and cannot really 'work towards' it.

What I agree to is that we should have a strict licensing law for 500cc + bikes, something like Singapore (or something to that effect)

Yes, you cant be assured that they will go in to the right hands, but at least that way you can reduce the number of wrong hands.

Thanks for bringing up the SUV topic. You see, people can't even drive four wheelers responsibly, how do you expect such high powered bikes to be ridden? Even more of a reason to keep the bikes away from the reach of such people as much as possible.

Whether I like it or not, the fact remains that the bikes are not going to be priced at international rates.

[maxj2005]

Originally Posted by bigron

And if you say superbikes are bare basics i wonder what else is on you list.

There are a lot of modification you can do with a super bike to make it a true ghost rider.These super bikes are built to perform at much higher levels than they are originally sold at.

You can buy Nitrous Oxide Kits and enhance performance to 50% by just this mod.It gives you a 10-30 sec blast of power.

I wish to get my hands on these soon.

Check out these links for other modification.

13 Motorcycle Performance Tips - Super Streetbike Magazine
Racers Corner

[bigron]

max: Yup you are right with all the modifications that can be done to these machines.But imagine if you are in that 10 - 30 second blast mode and suddenly a dog wants to cross the road. That won't be very good. But if you looking at all this for track days then I think its all good.

[manson]

Originally Posted by veyron1

Regarding the pricing, it seems sad that there are people who still want the superbikes to be priced the way they are. There are so many enthusiasts out there who can control these machines very well, would do anything in their power to own and maintain them, and keep them closer to their hearts than anything else. But can't do so due to the obscene pricing.

All bikes should be launched at their international prices. It's not a matter of exuberance, but affordability. People should have the option of being able to choose and afford whatever they crave for; desire to the core.

Very well said, and damn the economic growth. Think beyond the couple of thousand enthusiasts.
Lets face it, a good chunk of economic growth comes from the 'protected' automobile industry. You have seen automobile majors step into the Indian market, only after they have been time and again been assured of the protection against imports.
As much as i'd like to have bought a new R1 for the price i pad for my Thunderace i fully support the government's idea of protecting the automobile industry via high import duties.

manson.

[maxj2005]

Originally Posted by bigron

max: Yup you are right with all the modifications that can be done to these machines.But imagine if you are in that 10 - 30 second blast mode and suddenly a dog wants to cross the road. That won't be very good. But if you looking at all this for track days then I think its all good.

Dog crossing the road yep tracks it is.

Cant even try half throttle on a R1 on normal roads .

[veyron1]

Originally Posted by straight6

I know you want one bad, but start working towards it rather than hope they are priced low(its not going to happen with our Govt). Besides, you have the Ninja 250 to look forward to.

I already am, my friend...I already am. If it were not for a certain series of events, I would have had 185 horses under my right hand as we speak. The Ninja 250 is not exactly my cuppa tea. I've not ridden SBK's extensively, but enough to know that biking begins at 100 horses.

@bigron; I don't know about you, but an enthusiast like me has different priorities. I'd much rather blow 2 grand on fuel than new shoes. And yes, I'm aware of the level of skillsets that these bikes require on full clip. It's only a matter of experience. People will crash bikes no matter how much money they have; be it a ZMA or a 'blade. Who are we to decide what bike one should own? There are people I know who ought to be riding splendors, but are straddling kwackers. I don't judge them. I'm happy that they have the capability to own these beauties; irrespective of whether they value them or not.

@manson; What world are you living in, baba? Which local manufacturer you know would dare to invest, develop and launch a 1300cc bike below 4 lacs?? Or a litre class for that matter? This ain't no EVO (which would outsell a VRS 10 to 1, were it to be launched at its international MRP) that we're talking about.

Let's face it. No manufacturer (Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Yamaha, or the Italian marques) has a production plant for their superbikes outside their home country. EVERYWHERE else in the world, these bikes are sold via import-build-sell route. It's unfair for Indian govt. to ask for these manufaturers to set up shop in India before selling these babies, when our very own neighbours like Thailand & Malaysia have no problems selling the bikes via CBU route at international prices. It's unfair market practice to demand 200% of the original price, just so that the bikes can retain their exclusivity factor. Bah, humbug.

I agree that we need to protect our domestic players. But at what cost? TVS & Bajaj are the only two players left to be christened "domestic". HH & RE will never venture into the SBK segment. Period. Kinetic? Forget it. God knows what Mahindra intends to do. More fuel efficient scooterettes, perhaps. Okay then. Tax the Burgman.

The most effective solution is for the govt to ask for all those interested to partner a local manufacturer before launching thier products.

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by veyron1

People will crash bikes no matter how much money they have; be it a ZMA or a 'blade. Who are we to decide what bike one should own? There are people I know who ought to be riding splendors, but are straddling kwackers. I don't judge them.

Originally Posted by veyron1

Let's face it. No manufacturer (Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Yamaha, or the Italian marques) has a production plant for their superbikes outside their home country. EVERYWHERE else in the world, these bikes are sold via import-build-sell route. It's unfair for Indian govt. to ask for these manufaturers to set up shop in India before selling these babies, when our very own neighbours like Thailand & Malaysia have no problems selling the bikes via CBU route at international prices. It's unfair market practice to demand 200% of the original price, just so that the bikes can retain their exclusivity factor. Bah, humbug.

Very well said, young man. This exclusivity theory holds no water.

[bigron]

veyron:well if you look at things from that point of view then i guess we are not really on the same page here.However, i agree that if people can afford it then by all means they should buy it.I wont mind reading in the newspaper about another youth loosing his life because he could not control his pocket rocket.As for people like you and me who value and respect these bikes ,we can only hope that some day we can buy it at a price which is justifiable.

[manson]

Originally Posted by veyron1

@bigron; I don't know about you, but an enthusiast like me has different priorities. I'd much rather blow 2 grand on fuel than new shoes.

Its about striking a balance, and if you do not intend to spend 2000 odd on a good pair of boots that would protect you incase of a fall (sbk or single pot) you do not deserve a superbike that you would have spent a huge packet upon.

Originally Posted by veyron1

@manson; What world are you living in, baba? Which local manufacturer you know would dare to invest, develop and launch a 1300cc bike below 4 lacs?? Or a litre class for that matter? This ain't no EVO (which would outsell a VRS 10 to 1, were it to be launched at its international MRP) that we're talking about.

In India sir. Yamaha has launched a sweet arse motorcycle called the R15. This 150 cc six geared costs almost 1 Lac, if in near future any of the Indian majors were to launch a parallel twin, it would possible be in the 1.5-2L range. I am talking about a parallel twin manafactured in India, and not an import that the possible ninja may just be.
Similarly, a little higher up, in the 500-650 cc parallel twin range, you would probably touch a 3L pricetag, just mostly.
Now, if the government was to allow imports at no extra duty, a 600 cc inline four would cost nothing more than 4L, now you tye crazed automobile enthusiast would obviously ditch you home produce for the fancy R6, wouldn't you?
You may just argue further that this 500-600 cc Indian motorcycle may not happen, but the government has to factor in all the possibilities when framing policies. The development you are experiencing today is all due to the change in economic policies through the 90s.

Originally Posted by veyron1

Let's face it. No manufacturer (Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Yamaha, or the Italian marques) has a production plant for their superbikes outside their home country. EVERYWHERE else in the world, these bikes are sold via import-build-sell route. It's unfair for Indian govt. to ask for these manufaturers to set up shop in India before selling these babies, when our very own neighbours like Thailand & Malaysia have no problems selling the bikes via CBU route at international prices.

Errrm Thailand does not have a two wheeler major, nor does Malaysia, nor do most countries around the globe, so exactly will their governments protect by framing stringent import policies??
You do know that Hpnda, Toyota, GM, Daewoo, Hyundai, etc entered the Indian market wih fully blown production plants only because they were aware of protection against imports.
Its simple, if someone does not wantg to go the conventional way, and by what is easily available, let him pay through his nose, if he can afford it then, very good for him and the government who earns import duty revenue.

Originally Posted by veyron1

It's unfair market practice to demand 200% of the original price, just so that the bikes can retain their exclusivity factor. Bah, humbug.

You mean 260% or maybe more!!

Originally Posted by veyron1

I agree that we need to protect our domestic players. But at what cost? TVS & Bajaj are the only two players left to be christened "domestic". HH & RE will never venture into the SBK segment.

HH brought you the first 'performance' oriented 200+ cc motorcycle, bajaj closed in only recently with the P200 & 220. But the enthusiast will never fail to overlook 'domestic' efforts. And what would be the measures you would implement to protect Indian manafacturers once you have the import tariff abolished?

Originally Posted by veyron1

Period. Kinetic? Forget it. God knows what Mahindra intends to do. More fuel efficient scooterettes, perhaps. Okay then. Tax the Burgman.

Sigh, Kinetic was the first company that ventured into bringing some performance oriented motorcycles, and Mahindra makes one of the best SUV's in the country, at almost 90,000 kms my scorpio has yet to show me a wee bit of a rattle!!

Originally Posted by veyron1

The most effective solution is for the govt to ask for all those interested to partner a local manufacturer before launching thier products.

This is not really a problem for the government, they have more immediate problems to resolve. When we are a developed nation, they may have time to amend laws the aid the automobile enthusiast.

At the moment, i am delighted that Yamaha has taken the CBU plunge, and we atleast are getting 'legal' imports without having to literally convince a dealer to bring in a legal import for you. I hope the other hree Japanese will follow, and the enthusiast can have a little choice between a few 'legal' superbikes.

manson.

[straight6]

The Ninja 250 is manufactured in Thailand for all the markets in the world. The Honda cruisers were manufactured in the US from the 70's, but production will be moving to Japan this year.

[manson]

Originally Posted by straight6

The Ninja 250 is manufactured in Thailand for all the markets in the world. The Honda cruisers were manufactured in the US from the 70's, but production will be moving to Japan this year.

Compare that to atleast 25-30 motorcycles that Indian two wheeler majors are manafacturing in extremely large volumes at full swing.

manson.