[samm]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Speaking of the engine, I read somewhere that the BSIV engines of the revamped (2010 I guess) Innova have slightly more bhp than the original BSIII 102 bhp mills (I recall reading 5+ or 109 bhp somewhere). But the brochure and website still mentions 102 bhp only. Whats the reality actually?

Akshay actually in my mind the decision now is Innova or the Safari/Merlin/Aria. The Xylo is not on my radar any longer. It does just space (marginally to Innova) and equipment (second to none) very well, and comes away 2nd or 3rd best to Innova in fit/finish/quality/reliability/ride/handling and to Safari in looks/road presence/ego boost/big feel/SUV rough road ability/toughness. So as a driver it checks none of the critical boxes for me, and for my passengers, the Innova would be nearly as good in space, and both the Innova/Safari would have it beat everywhere else amongst them.

As for the choice of the Innova variant, actually as far as I am concerned, the G only really loses out to the GX in rear AC vents (which I can retrofit for 20K) and the rear demister/wiper (which I guess I would have to live without). And for that I would need to spend 1.6 Lacs extra for the GX over and above the 11.3 lac OTR for the G. The Safari EX on the other hand, with a lot more kit than even the Innova GX, would still be less than 10.5 lacs OTR for me.

There is no change in power of Innova. Its the old D4D engine with intercooler added for BSIV.

I dont recommend Safari for the issues and poor resale, and with Merlin around. Merlin should have lot of stuff improved, hopefully!

Aria seems to be good, and no issues reported yet, but even the 4x2 variant is priced higher than Innova GX. The only issue is the third row is not good. Feels like you are in a box, and is cramped. Need to be an acrobat to get into the third row.

If you have budget constraints, go for Innova G with A/c retrofit. It should be perfectly fine.

Originally Posted by ebonho

Its not that I am a major off-roading enthusiast, but the looks and image of the SUV, the driving position (big "truck" feel), and the ability/GC to take bad roads/no roads (even in a 4x2 version - which is the EX version that I will get in my budget), are all plus points over the Innova which to be honest does not excite me at all. It just is the better choice for my needs.

True, Innova doesnt excite me as well! I started with a plan to buy Scorpio! But the next best option is Aria (considering looks, utility and refinement) if you consider reliability aspects (though not proven yet!). The budget requires some significant push though

Or, wait for Merlin, but no one knows when it is coming. Its been coming & coming for several months now.

[ebonho]

Thanks for the great perspectives on the Innova Samm!

Your analysis of Innova vs Xylo is spot on with regard to the people vs luggage conundrum - leave alone the other aspects of interiors and ride etc.

With regard to SUV vs MUV, all I can say is somewhere sometime each one of us has to pay the price for being a family man ....

That we pay it gladly does not necessarily mean we have to like doing it

The Merlin is supposed to be priced between the Safari and the Aria.

The cheapest Safari LX is 9.5 L OTR.

The cheapest Aria Pleasure 4x2 is 13.5 L OTR.

That's is a difference of 4 L - so the Merlin should probably slot in at 11.5 L OTR.

All well and good so far. But when is the car coming???!!!!!!!

That of course still leaves the little problem of Tata reliability/quality/niggles and the lack of the front facing 3rd row, but as mentioned before, that is a bridge I am mentally (and financially) willing to cross when and if I come to it.

[Gautam Misra]

Originally Posted by ebonho

The other issue is that this car is basically a company purchase and the budget is set at 11 lacs - anything more needs to be topped up by me, which somehow does not make sense for a vehicle that is not on my name. After 4 years there would be a buy-back option, but that's really too long away to consider as part of the decision making process.

So in 11 lacs I get only the bare-bone G version of the Innova or the fully loaded E8 with ABS and Airbags of the Xylo (plus with discounts/insurance+extended warranty waivers, I actually have 60+ K still remaining for things like TV, GPS, Interiors, and a lot of other stuff).

IMHO you should go for the top end Innova by paying the extra amount and retaining the car after 4 yours by exercising the buy back options.

It is a kind of a car where you cannot go wrong. Toyota has a great after sales back up and upto 1.5 lakh Kms on the odo you will have absolutely no problems. If you can wait you can also wait for the new Innova.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by ebonho

With regard to SUV vs MUV, all I can say is somewhere sometime each one of us has to pay the price for being a family man ....

That of course still leaves the little problem of Tata reliability/quality/niggles and the lack of the front facing 3rd row, but as mentioned before, that is a bridge I am mentally (and financially) willing to cross when and if I come to it.

Well Just thought I will share my views too with you as an Innova Owner. I have driven this car for a good 80k kms now since we bought it in 2006. Its a 2.5G model so it doesn't have any ABS an other goodies. Yet it just brings a sense of calmness everytime I take it out. I can depend on it anytime of the day in any type of weather. It doesn't matter how the road is, How many people are going to be coming along on the trip or how much luggage am I gonna put in. This car just refuses to give you even the slightest frown ever.
After a happy 80k kms I can confidently tell you there is still not a single rattle. The car gives me a decent FE of 11 in Delhi traffic with 100% ac. Highways I get around 14 kmpl. I have not spend a single extra penny on it since the date of purchase apart from the servicing. Servicing is also a paltry 4k at 5k kms and then 1k at next 5k kms. This keeps alternating so basically you spend around 5k for every 10,000 kms you drive. Thats Cheap! And if you go to an outside garage it might be even cheaper.

I did get an additional AC vent fixed at the back. Its similar to the pictures been already posted on the forum. I don't remember the exact cost but it was around 10-15k. I had got it done from outside and it helps in chilling the car a lot. I will recommend you to go for it incase you travel with more then 2 people often.

All in all this is a true workhorse. I would really recommend you to go ahead and buy this. And if you can increase your budget you should go for the V model. If not get the G and some modifications like a good ICE and all will ensure that it keeps you happy for a long long time. Hope this helped.

Regards,
mohit

[ebonho]

Thanks Gautam. When is the new Innova due and what are the expected changes?

Thanks Mohit for the wonderful testimony to Toyota's reliability and quality. No doubt the choice and final consideration set for any buyer looking for moving more than 5 people at a time will always have Innova as one of the top contenders.

If only they could make it slightly more off-road worthy (16" wheels, more GC), improve its looks to something a little more masculine, and give the aging motor a small shot of steroids - we would have the complete no-brainer package!

[samm]

Originally Posted by ebonho

If only they could make it slightly more off-road worthy (16" wheels, more GC), improve its looks to something a little more masculine, and give the aging motor a small shot of steroids - we would have the complete no-brainer package!

Perfectly portrayed!. Exactly my thoughts, except that I think the wheels should be 17"!

But then, nothing in the world is perfect, and Toyota doesnt seem to be in any mood to do that, either.

The new Innova (whenever it comes! maybe by mid 2012) is expected to have a better motor, but the center console going back in time. Looks are only slightly different (I cant say better) from the current breed. Not worth waiting for that, in my opinion. Probably others might have better and more reliable information, and I think there is another thread on the new Innova (2012).

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by ebonho

If only they could make it slightly more off-road worthy (16" wheels, more GC), improve its looks to something a little more masculine, and give the aging motor a small shot of steroids - we would have the complete no-brainer package!

Toyota thinks exactly like you do and hence they have already done exactly what you desired to the Innova.

That Innova which can go off-road, has bigger wheels, looks masculine, and the same motor on steroids is called the Fortuner.

[samm]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

That Innova which can go off-road, has bigger wheels, looks masculine, and the same motor on steroids is called the Fortuner.

Right! The only issue is $(TFort) = $(Innova GX) + $(Innova G) !

[Gautam Misra]

Originally Posted by ebonho

When is the new Innova due and what are the expected changes?

The exact dates are not yet known but it is at least 4 to 5 months away as Innova has recently announced a Special Edition. IMO the changes would be towards a more refined Interior and minor tweaks here and there.

Originally Posted by samm

I think there is another thread on the new Innova (2012).

Here is a link to the 2012 Innova thread:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ationally.html

[raj_5004]

For this budget, somehow I will recommend you the xylo. The innova will be too bare basic for a family use. Moreover, absence of rear AC vents is a big NO-NO for such a huge vehicle.

[ebonho]

Thanks guys for your thoughts. Devdath/Samm, good ones both of you! Raj, everything else put aside for the Xylo, someone rightly said that the internal set-up is such that it is either a 5 seater with luggage or a 7 seater without luggage. That is a much bigger no-no (with no easy woraround, barring an external luggage rack) than a rear AC which can be retro-fitted, don't you think? Can't wait 4-6 months. Max till the end of this month and see if Tatas do something by then ..... otherwise it will be the Innova. Why does no one speak of the new Force One in the same breath while doing these comparos?

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Raj, everything else put aside for the Xylo, someone rightly said that the internal set-up is such that it is either a 5 seater with luggage or a 7 seater without luggage. That is a much bigger no-no (with no easy woraround, barring an external luggage rack) than a rear AC which can be retro-fitted, don't you think?

But then thats the same with even the innova, no?

Also, I am against retro fitting the roof mounted AC in innova. I have seen one such example. The work done was neat but the console looked cheap & clearly aftermarket. Also, it has 4 vents in the middle row & no vents in the last row.

[ebonho]

No the Innova is far more versatile in usage of internal space.

The positioning of the three rows of seats relative to each other, means that there is optimal leg space for each row, and even though the 3rd row has slightly less than the Xylo, and the seat is slightly closer to the floor (so that tall guys have their knees slightly more bent than in the Xylo), the Innova actually can hold pretty decent amount of luggage behind the 3rd row. I have sat once in a cool cab Innova Pune-Mumbai (captain seat middle row), there were 7 of us (including driver), and most of the baggage fitted behind the 3rd row, with some in the space between the two mid row captain seats as well.

Again, in the Xylo, there is zero space between the two mid row captain seats with the arm rest put down. A teen can barely squeeze through, not an adult. So you have to til one of the captain seats. Now the captain seats in the Innova can tilt and slide. The ones in the Xylo are fixed and swivel on a point, with no front-back slide. So there is no scope of sliding either the mid or back rows forward to free up luggage space behind the 3rd row at all. If at all, one can only slide stuff under the Xylo seats, which would be difficult with large dimensioned bags with semi-rigid frames.

The Xylo 3rd row bench backrest can only fold on itself as a single unit, while that of the Innova has a 50:50 split, which offers you the non all-or-nothing choice of seating one (or two) in the 3rd row, and folding the other half away to free up even more luggage space. Another surprising thing (which i have checked personally sitting in each 3rd row) is that the more comfortable leg space in the Xylo comes at the cost of head space. That may be surprising given the taller stance of the Xylo, but there was more empty space over my head in the Innova than in the Xylo (albeit not significantly). That fact though becomes slightly painfully evident on bad/broken surfaces with the back end of the Xylo pitching and jumping more than the sedate Innova - causing me to bump my head on to the roof (cushioned of course!) a couple of times in the Xylo.

[antz.bin]

I fail to understand why people willing to spend 11lacs on a car can even think about skimping on Safety equipment (like ABS)(which will eventually aid in saving lives of YOUR 'loved' ones). My $0.02: Pick the ABS + Airbag variant of the Xylo for your current budget, if you want an Innova instead, please increase your budget and go for the variant with ABS AT LEAST! I have not driven the Innova any more than 500km on dual-carriageway. But believe me, my bike (Pulsar 220) inspires much more confidence while braking from 100 than an Innova. Going anywhere above 110 felt like I was about to suicide. And this is on roads on which I was consistently doing 130-140(on the bike) like a day before. Any Innova owners who feel safe while braking from 120, please refrain from going up to those speeds, it is certainly not safe. More so without ABS.

[raj_5004]

I was coming to this. Buddy, please do not buy the innova without ABS. There will be many who will tell you that ABS is not necessary and innova's brakes are good enough, but please understand its a big vehicle with skinny and small tires. I have myself experienced that an innova without ABS is a death trap. I learnt the hard way. The car just skids as if its on ice. On the other hand, ABS makes a lot of difference in the V variant. So if you have decided on the innova, please opt for the top end. Safety comes first.