[acidkill]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

The Innova is the best answer for you.

It has everything you need and is, simply put, the best people mover today. Go for the highest variant you can afford to, and you ll be a happy man, for years to come.

Originally Posted by rrsteer

I have recently bought an Innova and I generally think for a 7 seater it is the best that money could buy, but may not really be worth the money.

Thanks for the tip guys.

I just need to know that the Innova will be able to handle moon crater studded mud roads like any of the array of SUVs in this price range. If yes, I should be good to go ahead with it

XUV is out of budget. Aria is not in the shortlist

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by acidkill

I just need to know that the Innova will be able to handle moon crater studded mud roads like any of the array of SUVs in this price range. If yes, I should be good to go ahead with it

Can the Innova handle all kinds of roads? Yes. Look at scores of them going all over the country including the Himalayas, often overloaded with people and luggage and doing this multiple times over.

Can the Innova off road like the Scorpio or the Safari in their 4WD variants? No, but you don't need that kind of ability.

[swiftdiesel]

I've extensively used my Ertiga with 7 people on board on potholed roads and I've found the ride to be composed. It's GC of 185mm is good enough to approach steep craters without bottoming out.

I'm sure you've heard of arm chair critics who call this engine underpowered without even having driven one with 7 on board. But I can tell you that I've driven my Ertiga with 7 people and 2 kids on board to Ooty with luggage and the engine did it without a sweat!

In the city there is negligible turbo lag and I call it negligible because at 16000 kms, my current mileage, I hardly notice it! Ertiga is a pucca cruiser and it's at home in the highways.

You don't have to take my word for it! I would suggest you take a test drive with 7 on board on an uphill section and see for yourself. If you compare the bhp/tonne of Ertiga with it's competitors you are in for a pleasant surprise! I can produce the data if you need them.

Mileage within the city is a consistent 17 to 18 kmpl and on the highway it's 20+! I'm sure no other MPV can even get close to that figure!

It can carry 7 to 8 soft travel bags stacked upon each other in case you need all three rows. I would suggest you take a ride in the third row to realise it indeed is a proper seat.

MSILs service reputation needs no explanation and the vehicle is an absolute peace of mind. I've been enjoying mine for 6 months now with not a single problem, squeak or rattle. End of the day it's your money and it should be put on something that gives total VFM. And for that asking price I reckon you have a winner! Small reason it's the Mpv of the year!

[acidkill]

Originally Posted by swiftdiesel

I've extensively used my Ertiga with 7 people on board on potholed roads and I've found the ride to be composed. It's GC of 185mm is good enough to approach steep craters without bottoming out.

I'm sure you've heard of arm chair critics who call this engine underpowered without even having driven one with 7 on board. But I can tell you that I've driven my Ertiga with 7 people and 2 kids on board to Ooty with luggage and the engine did it without a sweat!

MSILs service reputation needs no explanation and the vehicle is an absolute peace of mind. I've been enjoying mine for 6 months now with not a single problem, squeak or rattle.

End of the day it's your money and it should be put on something that gives total VFM. And for that asking price I reckon you have a winner! Small reason it's the Mpv of the year!

I agree for the most part.

We must give credit that the Ertiga is 90% the size of the innova at 70% of the price. Also, I am quite clear that the Ertiga is just as good the Innova in in power to weight and long term peace of mind. It is my perception that Ertiga is the winner for family use in the urban runabout - your satisfaction is a reflection of that.

But when you add the business use-case to the equation, viz. long term strength of the car, ability to seat 7 full size adults, extra space for goods in the 3rd Row when folded, and ability of the suspension to withstand bad roads everyday in 100km run - much of the Ertigas abilities are unanswered.

For me, it could add a lot of value if someone who owns/has owned both ertiga and innova in India, or avanza and innova abroad can provide us a critique of the differences for the long term

[torquing_points]

Waterlogging has now become a frequent occurrence in Gurgaon on the service lanes of the NH8. This frequently means 1-2 feet of standing water on the service lanes.

Here's a unique question to all our offroading Gurus here - what SUV / MUV / Sedan (!?) do you find is best suited for driving in deep water that you encounter during offroading?

I have test driven the Thar, and that thing just dismisses the water on the NH8. The Duster also seems to do it well, although im a bit worried about water seeping inside in the long-term. The other vehicles I'm considering are the Scorpio, Safari+Storme, XUV, although im hesitant to consider the XUV because im worried about how delicate the electronics of that car are, and how they will behave with water splashing around.

Offroading capability is not important except for driving through potentially deep potholes hidden inside deep water. What I need is a reliable, waterproof and rugged monster which can dismiss bad roads and deep water. Superior highway ride quality (chauffeur driven) is an added bonus.

Budget is <15L OTR.

Would love to get some thoughts from experts here.

[agambhandari]

1-2 feet of water=300-600 mm water depth.
In a desperate time, even a normal car can clear water logging. My Chevy Spark cleared flooded roads in my city and survived to tell the tale!

But for everyday usage on water, good to go for a more capable car

Technically speaking, a Safari claims to have a wading depth of only 300 mm. Similar is the case even with other soft-roaders like the Yeti and Duster. Do note that although these cars can wade about in deeper waters, the manufacturer doesn't recommend it.
Although a Thar would be be great match for these conditions, but it can be a difficult to live with it everyday!

Since you only need to clear water logging on reasonably good roads, I don't think you would need a 4x4 desperately. The upcoming EcoSport claims to have a wading depth of 550mm and I believe should be enough for most usage. I think you should wait for it.

If you can stretch your budget, a Fortuner has 700mm wading depth and is reasonably comfortable too, but as i said, it is a lot more expensive.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by torquing_points

Waterlogging has now become a frequent occurrence in Gurgaon on the service lanes of the NH8. This frequently means 1-2 feet of standing water on the service lanes.

Here's a unique question to all our offroading Gurus here - what SUV / MUV / Sedan (!?) do you find is best suited for driving in deep water that you encounter during offroading?

What I need is a reliable, waterproof and rugged monster which can dismiss bad roads and deep water. Superior highway ride quality (chauffeur driven) is an added bonus.

Budget is <15L OTR.

Would love to get some thoughts from experts here.

A Brand New Scorpio or Safari or Storme or Duster top spec will do your work decently for you. Most cars can wade and handle some amount of water logging but the vehicles mentioned above are relatively inexpensive and proven and will do the job for you on a budget. However, the road manners on highways, of the Scorpio etc are not great. The Safari is more comfortable most certainly. The Duster is a good mixture of modernity, driveability, daily useability and toughness/ ruggedness.
I would not wade too deep in my Yeti and I find other vehicles such as the Fortuner etc too expensively priced in India for what they offer.
Being a Gurgaon resident I think you can get yourself some pretty sweet deals on the real big bad SUV's in the used car market so you might want to consider that option too, for example a nice used Pajero could be yours for about 12 lacs!

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by torquing_points

Here's a unique question to all our offroading Gurus here - what SUV / MUV / Sedan (!?) do you find is best suited for driving in deep water that you encounter during offroading?

Pick up any vehicle with a ground clearance of more than 180mm and it should be sufficient for water fording in the situations that you have mentioned. Also keep in mind that the engine can function perfectly even when submerged in water and water will NOT get into the engine as long you do not stall with the tail pipe under water. The main area for water entry is the air intake.

[torquing_points]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Being a Gurgaon resident I think you can get yourself some pretty sweet deals on the real big bad SUV's in the used car market so you might want to consider that option too, for example a nice used Pajero could be yours for about 12 lacs!

Wow - old Pajero would be 12 - thanks, never thought of this option. Any idea why Pajeros are so cheap, but Endys hold on to their resale value? Is there a parts issue? I can see some old Pajeros on Carwale for 12 with about 80K km on them.

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Also keep in mind that the engine can function perfectly even when submerged in water and water will NOT get into the engine as long you do not stall with the tail pipe under water. The main area for water entry is the air intake.

The trouble isnt that the engine will stall because of one-time wading. I am careful to rev up, not change gears and not stopping the engine. I can do that in practically any sedan. I am more worried about what daily wading will do to the vehicle in the medium term. That is why I am hesitating to go for electronics-heavy vehicles like Skodas or for that matter the XUV.

[agambhandari]

Originally Posted by torquing_points

Wow - old Pajero would be 12 - thanks, never thought of this option. Any idea why Pajeros are so cheap, but Endys hold on to their resale value? Is there a parts issue? I can see some old Pajeros on Carwale for 12 with about 80K km on them.
.

You can also find some decent Endeavours (2-3 yr old) for 13-15 lacs. That would be a good option, but I suppose you could have problems with its ride quality. It is pretty bumpy

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by torquing_points

I am more worried about what daily wading will do to the vehicle in the medium term.

Nothing really, unless you wade for hours everyday in slushy mucky marshes.
Buy something simple like the Bolero if you really feel that water wading is your prime concern for buying a vehicle.

[Aroy]

The "Wading Depth" is 600mm for Pajero and 700mm for the Fortuner. What is means is that the vehicle will not be damaged by water upto these depths. Many SUV's have a lower depth due to
. Electronics situated low, especially the ECU
. Electrics not protected - Scorpio 4x4 comes to my mind, where water affects both the shift and the hubs, but waterproofing them with a rubber/silicon spray solves the problems.
. Low Floor which can let water ingress into the cabin.
. Low air intake - this is the most critical and has caused a lot of damage in the VW Tuareg.

That apart, I have driven the M800 regularly through water which covers the head light and come out without a problem - no short circuits, no leakage in the cabin etc, but that was a carburetor version with no ECU

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by Aroy

That apart, I have driven the M800 regularly through water which covers the head light and come out without a problem - no short circuits, no leakage in the cabin etc, but that was a carburetor version with no ECU

The reason you were able to do this is because the Distributor is mounted very high in the M800. By contrast the Fiat or Premier Padmini used to give up the ghost every time there were floods because its distributor or 'Delco' as it was called, was mounted low and used to get water logged.
In the mid 90's I had an M800 old shape in Madras and one night in the really heavy monsoon rains I was literally driving through water which was almost at the bonnet opening level along what is now the TIDEL Park road, after Madhya Kailash temple. Those days there were no street lights, the road itself had barely been laid and had a number of craters and broken areas on it, so driving that night was fraught with the dangers of the unknown. However, I made it back, by driving slowly, keeping the car in lower gears and the engine at constant revs, all the way home to Valmiki Nagar where I lived then. I was quite concerned about the electricals failing, particularly the lights. The windows were kept rolled down a bit for air and the AC etc was off, because I did not wish to get trapped inside in the event of really deep flooding. I had learned a little about circumstances like these from an old 1960's publication that my father gave me, called the AA Book of the Car...

[ACM]

Have driven the earlier Safari TCIC at water levels for about 600 to 750 mm with water at the level of the smiling grill upfront. The added on fog lights in front of the grill above the bumper were half filled with water as a result but rest all was fine.

Have driven the cielo with water up to the bonnet and just lost the number plates and rest all was OK but it was scary with it being an AT.

Would not be comfortable driving the Skoda Laura in such a situation due to electronics.

It is best done with a vehicle with lesser bits of high tech gizmos unless the manufacturer specifies a higher water level.

[wanderer4x4]

I have been contemplating buying an SUV primarily for my weekend runs. Of late, I have realised that I am clocking around 400 kms almost every weekend, and though the Swift DDiS is a spirited performer, the negligible bootspace is a serious handicap. With 3 or 4 adults and a kid and all the associated luggages it becomes quite a task to put everyones luggage in the tiny boot. So, thought of purchasing the Storme or the XUV. Then I realised that I should rather look for some preowned Dicor / Scorpio than spending big money on which is essentially a 3rd car after the Swift and the CJ3B.

With this backdrop, I was looking for some pre- owned Scorpio / Safari (unlike many who have strong likes or dislikes for one or the other of these, I kind of like both of these for different aspects and so am okay with both of them, though considering the comfort factor I like a Dicor slightly more.) A used car dealer who is a friend, has now found out 2 vehicles which are basically finance repossessed vehicles. One is a April 2011 Scorpio LX with 79000 km and the other, a Feb 2008 Safari LX with 71000 km on the clock. Now my queries are:

1) Which of these would be a good bet in terms of maintenance? Apparently, Scorpio is low on mainteneace, but if you check the rates at their ASC, these are not cheap with routine change of oils/ filters and general servicing costing close to 8 -9 k. However, with the Dicor, I am apprehensive about the niggles and the intercooler/injectors/ ECU etc going kaput. So, with the kind mileage on the clocks, which car might be easier on mainteneace?

2) Both the vehicles apparently are in good condition though the Scorpio will need a coat of paint as it has scratches all over after lying in the yard for the last 2 months. Tyres and battery will be required to be changed for both the cars. Cost is 3.00 L for the Safari and 3.60 L for the Scorpio. Which of these seem to be a better deal if at all I go for one? I don't care about resale as I'll have the car for at least the next 3 years.

3) Any issues that members know of specific to these batches (Feb 2008 Dicor and April 2011 Scorpio)? I don't know the maintenace history though I can get it from the ASC, are the mileage too high and should I look for some lower mileage ones and let these go altogether?