[Buffetfan]

Originally Posted by antz.bin

I fail to understand why people willing to spend 11lacs on a car can even think about skimping on Safety equipment (like ABS)(which will eventually aid in saving lives of YOUR 'loved' ones). My $0.02: Pick the ABS + Airbag variant of the Xylo for your current budget, if you want an Innova instead, please increase your budget and go for the variant with ABS AT LEAST! I have not driven the Innova any more than 500km on dual-carriageway. But believe me, my bike (Pulsar 220) inspires much more confidence while braking from 100 than an Innova. Going anywhere above 110 felt like I was about to suicide. And this is on roads on which I was consistently doing 130-140(on the bike) like a day before. Any Innova owners who feel safe while braking from 120, please refrain from going up to those speeds, it is certainly not safe. More so without ABS.

31k kms of self drive in my Innova makes me believe completely contrary to what you suggest. Though it is the ABS variety with 225/60R15 tires, I can safely vouch that it very very stable at high speeds in excess of 120kmph. The brakes are very good and one is always in control. My other car is a Baleno, and while the top speed of the Baleno is about 15-20% higher, surprisingly, have realized 5-10% higher average speeds in the Innova on most of the sector, compared to the Baleno. Maybe because the Innova feels less stressed out in terms of road noise insulation and ride quality on broken tarmac.

I am very unsure what kind on Innova you drove and what was its tire condition. But I am very very surprised that you found the brakes of a Pulsar superior to an Innova.

[Buffetfan]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

I was coming to this. Buddy, please do not buy the innova without ABS. There will be many who will tell you that ABS is not necessary and innova's brakes are good enough, but please understand its a big vehicle with skinny and small tires. I have myself experienced that an innova without ABS is a death trap. I learnt the hard way. The car just skids as if its on ice. On the other hand, ABS makes a lot of difference in the V variant. So if you have decided on the innova, please opt for the top end. Safety comes first.

Buddy,
Why did you not upgrade to 225/60R15 in your last tire change . I have no experience of driving the Innova on the regular tires but on the 225/60, it is very very good (But then I have ABS too).

ABS, always useful in such a large vehicle, esp if one tends to drive on the edge. For normal drivers, does not make much difference as wheel lockup situations will not be many. Finally, any driver can always simulate ABS action with his foot, with similar results.

[antz.bin]

Originally Posted by Buffetfan

31k kms of self drive in my Innova makes me believe completely contrary to what you suggest. Though it is the ABS variety with 225/60R15 tires, I can safely vouch that it very very stable at high speeds in excess of 120kmph. The brakes are very good and one is always in control. My other car is a Baleno, and while the top speed of the Baleno is about 15-20% higher, surprisingly, have realized 5-10% higher average speeds in the Innova on most of the sector, compared to the Baleno. Maybe because the Innova feels less stressed out in terms of road noise insulation and ride quality on broken tarmac.

I am very unsure what kind on Innova you drove and what was its tire condition. But I am very very surprised that you found the brakes of a Pulsar superior to an Innova.

The bold bit was exactly my point. The Innova I drove was a 2009 Innova G (NON ABS) which was run 18k km and completely bone stock(including tyres). My opinion was echoed by raj_5004 who also owns a similar Innova. I have no doubts that the Innova is 'stable' at those speeds. But the NON ABS Innova with its 205 section tyres certainly does not inspire confidence 'while braking' when at those speeds. I knew when I was typing my previous post that it will certainly attract flak from Innova owners and that was certainly not my intention. May I ask, have you ridden a stock Pulsar '220' recently? Contrary to what most car enthusiasts might think, the braking on modern bikes is much superior to the age old Splendors.

Another observation I wish to share with fellow TBhpians is when on tour(on my bike, since I don't tour on the car, its a personal preference thing.). People driving Innovas never seem to be able to keep up with my riding pace. (I try to maintain a constant 110-120 on GQs) While Xylos are always looking to exceed their highway cruise speeds beyond 130-140.(talking about GQs not E-Ways here. Bikes aren't allowed there ) Similar is the case with Grand Vitaras, Fortuners and CRVs. All these vehicles are much faster on a dual carriageway than any Innovas I have seen. Have anyone of you seen this happen?

My analysis to this is maybe thats because they are more comfortable when driving at those speeds due to the higher HP or the fatter tyres or better braking feedback or maybe they are in a perennial hurry or maybe they are just plain stupid. But this has been the case with majority of the aforementioned cars I see on the road. I know this because I never select an Innova as a Pilot car when on the road. Because those people drive way too slow for my liking.

The above has been my observation on the road in the past 1.5 years and 32k+ km of highway riding spanning 8 states. In no way I mean to undermine Innovas/Xylos/TForts/GVs/CRVs or their owners in any way. I also understand that everyone would drive as per his/her comfort level. The topic is open to discussion. But I stand strong on my claim that NON ABS Innovas are unsafe above 110kmph and inspire little confidence while braking.

[mayankjha1806]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Thanks Mayank. I am in the same dilemma about the Merlin/old Safari vs base Aria (I would top up for either of these if I get a good "deal"). Waiting is not a problem. Indefinite waiting is. And thats what it looks like from the long Merlin thread here. It seems to be taking forever, with no definite end in sight.

P.S. Another black Baleno (I have a white one)

I just somehow, anyhow, want to get the best of both worlds here .... get the Safari, and still manage to fit in my dada and mom, as well as my family of 5. Looks increasingly impossible/very difficult. The kind of journey I am looking at (with parents) would be max Pune-Panchgani (120 odd kms) or Pune-Udvada (350 odd kms) or Pune-Goa (450 odd kms). Considering my dad would be co-driver seat, my mom, wife, and tall-ish teenage son would be in the middle row seat, would a 10 yo girl (close to 5 feet tall) and a 5 yo girl find the back bay jump seats ok for these distances? These trips would be once in a while, and the rest of the time (90+%) it would just be the 5 of us which should be fine I guess.

Looks like there is a Merlin in Concorde Bangalore, i am planning to pay them a visit and take a look. You could do the same in Pune i guess and see if something has arrived. If this turns out to be true my guess is waiting shouldn't be long.

One of my very close friend had a similar requirement, needed to carry around close to 7 and he choose Innova. With most of these cars if 7 are seated there is very less space to put any luggage. For example in Safari if folks are sitting on the jump seats then there is no space for luggage for 7 people, and i guess it would be similar in Merlin.

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by Buffetfan

Buddy,
Why did you not upgrade to 225/60R15 in your last tire change . I have no experience of driving the Innova on the regular tires but on the 225/60, it is very very good (But then I have ABS too).

Mine is a V model which has ABS. My uncle has a G variant without ABS. I had a very scary incident with it. I initially thought something is wrong with the vehicle or the tires but it was a new vehicle with some 6000 kms on its odo.

So, when i went to Kerela a few months back, I had booked a taxi. The taxi was a Innova G without ABS. I took out this topic with the driver of that taxi & even he was of the opinion that the braking is very bad. (he was driving the car very sedately not exceeding 80 kmph even on an open highway).

ABS, always useful in such a large vehicle, esp if one tends to drive on the edge. For normal drivers, does not make much difference as wheel lockup situations will not be many. Finally, any driver can always simulate ABS action with his foot, with similar results.

This is what I meant when I said this -

Originally Posted by raj_5004

There will be many who will tell you that ABS is not necessary and innova's brakes are good enough,

[Buffetfan]

Originally Posted by antz.bin

The bold bit was exactly my point. The Innova I drove was a 2009 Innova G (NON ABS) which was run 18k km and completely bone stock(including tyres). My opinion was echoed by raj_5004 who also owns a similar Innova. I have no doubts that the Innova is 'stable' at those speeds. But the NON ABS Innova with its 205 section tyres certainly does not inspire confidence 'while braking' when at those speeds. I knew when I was typing my previous post that it will certainly attract flak from Innova owners and that was certainly not my intention. May I ask, have you ridden a stock Pulsar '220' recently? Contrary to what most car enthusiasts might think, the braking on modern bikes is much superior to the age old Splendors.

The last Pulsar I rode was the 180. And the last bike I rode was the Harley Davidson Softail. No, havent ridden the pulsar 220 so cannot comment but still would be very surprised.

All these vehicles are much faster on a dual carriageway than anny Innovas I have seen. Have anyone of you seen this happen?

Could be a few things in my view

A> Innova's are taxis and higher speeds mean lower mileage.
B> Innova is a short geared car and the mileage drops drastically after 80kmph. If one does 120+kmph the mileage will drop by 30% or so compared to a crusing 90-100 kmph
C> I have always found a particular brand SUV owners racing with everyone else on the road an never giving way. Maybe also something to do with our psychology dictating the car we own.
D> The original tires that Innova comes in with are more mileage oriented and less grip oriented.

But I stand strong on my claim that NON ABS Innovas are unsafe above 110kmph and inspire little confidence while braking.

My car has slightly wider tires at 225/60 compared to the original 206/65. I still cannot believe that this marginal upsize can be so different to the original. My two other friends who own the G models have been pretty happy with the road grip as well.

Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion but the car I have has braked very well in all situations, in now way worse compared to my sedan (Baleno with 185/65R14 tires).

Originally Posted by raj_5004

The taxi was a Innova G without ABS. I took out this topic with the driver of that taxi & even he was of the opinion that the braking is very bad. (he was driving the car very sedately not exceeding 80 kmph even on an open highway).
-

Many Innova taxi drivers do this as the car gives >13 kmpl on 80 kmph and <10 kmpl on 120+ kmph. I am unsure if this was playing in his head and he wanted to continue doing 80kmph somehow.

[onlinestuffa]

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Originally Posted by Gautam Misra

IMHO you should go for the top end Innova by paying the extra amount and retaining the car after 4 yours by exercising the buy back options.
.

I am in that very situation, i.e. had gone for G model (2007) Innova with roof air vents and captain seats. After 4 years we now have the buyback option. The vehicle has done 53,000 km and has some body damage - several scratches and minor dents, front bumper bit loose from one side. There was major damage a couple of years ago when the right side doors were damaged when someone backed their car into, but that was repaired.

I had made enquiries from my mechanic and he suggested the price should be between 4.5 to 5 lakhs.

But the company has set the price at 6.5L!! Can anyone comment if this is a fair price?

What I am trying to say is that don't bet on the buyback option unless you are fully clear at what price it will be.

OS

[Oxy]

The Innova is possibly the best car in this price range. Being a Toyota, it gives you complete peace of mind.

By the way, check out the recently launched Mahindra XUV 500 as well.

[ACM]

[quote=onlinestuffa;2539125I am in that very situation, i.e. had gone for G model (2007) Innova with roof air vents and captain seats. After 4 years we now have the buyback option. The vehicle has done 53,000 km and has some body damage - several scratches and minor dents, front bumper bit loose from one side. There was major damage a couple of years ago when the right side doors were damaged when someone backed their car into, but that was repaired.

I had made enquiries from my mechanic and he suggested the price should be between 4.5 to 5 lakhs.

But the company has set the price at 6.5L!! Can anyone comment if this is a fair price?

What I am trying to say is that don't bet on the buyback option unless you are fully clear at what price it will be.

OS[/quote]

No 6.5L is not a fair price. Check out the Carwale user car price check for an approx idea of the true value.

The buy back offers tend to be pointless at times. If it is not a forced buy back you could just forget it and look at getting another car.

Buy back offers are also at times based on the monthly amount taken from you prior to that period rather than just the depreciation or market values.

[onlinestuffa]

Originally Posted by ACM

No 6.5L is not a fair price. Check out the Carwale user car price check for an approx idea of the true value.

Thanks, ACM! Finally did shell out the 6.5L since no room for negotiation on buy back. But had checked out carwale where similar model and year Innovas were being offered for 7.5-8L. I figure those prices are subject to negotiation but finally decided that I may as well buy this car since I have the security of knowing that I have driven it and I can't afford to buy a new big car at this point.

OS

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by onlinestuffa

I am in that very situation, i.e. had gone for G model (2007) Innova with roof air vents and captain seats. After 4 years we now have the buyback option. The vehicle has done 53,000 km and has some body damage - several scratches and minor dents, front bumper bit loose from one side. There was major damage a couple of years ago when the right side doors were damaged when someone backed their car into, but that was repaired.

I had made enquiries from my mechanic and he suggested the price should be between 4.5 to 5 lakhs.
But the company has set the price at 6.5L!! Can anyone comment if this is a fair price?

What I am trying to say is that don't bet on the buyback option unless you are fully clear at what price it will be.

OS

Time was when in License Raj, cars would retain their value much more than depreciation, hence buy back would give you the vehicle at price lower than that in the market. Today the situation is reverse. The market price of a vehicle is generally much lower than the depreciated value, hence no sense in buy back.

To get the actual value, get the vehicle evaluated by a certified insurance valuer. The insurance company will never give more than the market value in case of theft or total loss, hence it is a fair estimate of the value of the vehicle. If the mechanic says 4.5, then that it is, and not 6.5 the company has on books.

[acidkill]

Gents,

Our family is in need of a workhorse. And i need your help in the selection process.

Requirements
1. Must be equally good as a self or chauffer driven car
2. Must have 7 seater capacity with comfortable middle row seats for long drives
3. Must be business/family versatile: Third row must be removable / foldable to create extra capacity for goods and at the same time , it should be placed when i need to carry my family to any destination
4. Must be capable of handling rough roads, potholes, unlaid pathways on a regular basis - So ground clearance and tough suspension is must
5. FE, A.S.S and Resale should be good
6. Automatic Transmission is a bonus although i know am asking for too much
7. Interiors must not be crude
8. It should not be a maintenance headache


Contenders
1. Mahindra Scorpio SLE / VLX
2. Maruti Ertiga VDi / ZDi
3. Tata Safari Storme
4. Toyota Innova G or GX
5. Xylo E8
6. Tata Grande GX


Please provide me your opinions to help me choose the right MUV/SUV.

[Buffetfan]

Originally Posted by onlinestuffa

Thanks, ACM! Finally did shell out the 6.5L since no room for negotiation on buy back. But had checked out carwale where similar model and year Innovas were being offered for 7.5-8L. I figure those prices are subject to negotiation but finally decided that I may as well buy this car since I have the security of knowing that I have driven it and I can't afford to buy a new big car at this point.

OS

My friend sold his May 2005 Innova G1 (W/o rear AC vents - he had retrofitted an aftermarket AC though) for INR 6.25 lakhs in Chennai about 6 months ago. I think you got a good buyback price IMHO for a vehicle whose history is known.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by acidkill

Please provide me your opinions to help me choose the right MUV/SUV.

The Innova is the best answer for you.

It has everything you need and is, simply put, the best people mover today. Go for the highest variant you can afford to, and you ll be a happy man, for years to come.

[rrsteer]

Originally Posted by acidkill

Gents,

Our family is in need of a workhorse. And i need your help in the selection process.


Please provide me your opinions to help me choose the right MUV/SUV.

Originally Posted by n.devdath

The Innova is the best answer for you.

I agree with Devdath above. Each of the other vehicles in your list has one or more major shortcoming. Innova on the other hand has no particularly sharp vices except for a very steep price.

I have recently bought an Innova and I generally think for a 7 seater it is the best that money could buy, but may not really be worth the money.

PS : You may also like to evaluate the XUV or the Aria.