[ganeshram]

Dear fellow BHP-ians

I am currently in a confused state - like most of the people who have started threads under "What Car" - and need your help badly.

Background

I currently own a Toyota Corolla 2007. Has run ~ 50K and has had no major problems. Has been a very good ownership experience so far. Extremely comfortable for my family as well. I now want to upgrade to a new machine.

Reasons -

• The Corolla has started showing signs of ageing. And it was already 4 years into production when I purchased it. So definitely a dated look.
• My loan term is coming to an end.
• Automatic - I used to be one who thought that Automatics are only for the lazybones. But 50K kms in Bangalore city and a resultant chronic left knee pain has made me think otherwise. It is not a must, but one of the top most in the wishlist.
• Petrol costs - Though the Corolla returns an average of 11 kmpl, the current fuel price hikes makes me think of a Diesel car.
• Bigger family. So a 7 seater would be a nice to have though not a must.
• Sedan or SUV - No hard preference here.

One thing was on the top of my mind - The new car should be as refined or if possible more refined than the Corolla. Smooth engine, nice clutch and precise gears would be the best combo.

XUV - She came, she saw but did she conquer?

Was in the process of looking at available options when the XUV was launched. Went to the dealership on the day of launch. Was bowled over by the presence and looks. Took a test drive a couple of days later. Was unhappy with the clutch(too hard) and the gear box. Went again with the family a week later. They liked the looks, but were of the opinion that the Corolla offered much better comfort. But finally ended up booking one - the W8 Dolphin grey. Delivery date - end of February.

Read a couple of ownership reports and all of them seemed to be unhappy with the clutch. I drive in city traffic and a hard clutch would be a nightmare. Today I took my 3rd test drive. After 2 km, my left toe started paining because I was unable to rest my foot on the floor while applying the clutch.

Now I am totally confused.

Positives of XUV

• Excellent value for money. No other car offers so many features even in the 20 lakh price range.
  
• Great looks, excellent paint job, a sure head turner
  
• Diesel. And a nice responsive engine

Negatives of XUV

• Hard clutch and notchy gears
  
• Unproven electronics
  
• Below average audio system. Replacement is out of question, since most of the features need this head unit to work. And I am not sure how much of sound quality can be improved by changing speakers/adding sub woofer etc.

Being used to the Corolla, I am not sure whether I will ever be happy with the clutch/gear box of the XUV. I am not saying it is too bad, but to me it is definitely a turn-off.

Other options

New Jetta Automatic(D) - Slightly pricey, but a smooth, solid performer
Laura Automatic(D) - I am not a great fan of its looks, but definitely a great option
New Sonata Diesel - Am not sure when it is being launched, but maybe worth a wait
Captiva Automatic(D) - Almost 9 lakhs more. But much better in fit and finish. Clutch and gearbox were also better IMO.

I need your help to decide one thing - Should I go for the XUV or not? Choosing the alternative is another task in itself, but currently this one is giving me sleepless nights.

[DeKay]

Hi Ganeshram,
What I think is, you should cancel the booking of the XUV as soon as possible and start looking at other options. The clutch is slightly hard, which you have already noticed and seems like you are used to the nice and butter smooth settings of the corolla.
Another thing, the XUV is strictly a 5 seater IMO. There is absolutely no room for two people in the third row. Keep that in mind.
And you are right. The electronics have not been proven. Even the Scorp VLX has been giving their owners a lot of problems when it comes to the electronics.
Another thing which I would like to point out is the quality of interiors and build quality.

The car starts rattling very early. This has been mentioned in the Tbhp review as well. If that is one thing you don't want in your car, you must stay away from the XUV.
Now when it comes to some other car, I would definitely recommend the Jetta DSG. It is an absolute stunner. Even the Laura DSG is an excellent performer. If comfort is one of your main criteria, these two are the cars which would not disappoint you.

[ACM]

You NEED an AT. Your requirements just scream that.

Suggest Jetta AT the most. The Captiva AT is expensive comparatively but also due for a change in looks next year.

So if you can wait for New Captiva, or even XUV AT (if it comes in 2012 - unlikely though), or get Endy AT. - Middle row comfort is not that great but it is a reliable AT.

Laura AT is best value but it is a Skoda, the Jetta does look better (read fresher) in the rear with the new version.

If you can stretch to Jetta and Captiva AT then Passat and Superb AT too should be considered. - All diesel ofcourse.

Try them all out and decide.

XUV just does not seem ideal for you unless you get a driver and sit in the rear or passenger seat - worthwhile maybe if you consider the cost difference to the Captiva AT and if traffic navigation is a major portion of your comute. Being larger XUV does throw up the option of getting a driver as you would be alone in the car most of the time.

[drmohitg]

I would suggest you wait for some time and cancel your booking. As ACM told you already in the post above there are so many launches coming up next year. The captiva is a great car in my opinion specially when you want a city SUV. Definitely worth the wait. Also the fortuner AT is also rumored to arriving in early 2012. You can choose and make a decision then.

Amongst the Sedans again Sonata may be a good choice. So if not in a hurry wait till next year. The Jetta may also get added equipment who knows.

[gadadhar]

Why not consider a Chevy cruze AT?. I own a Elantra CRDI and is planning for a change with very similar requirement like you. Waited for XUV, but decided against it due to no AT version. New Jetta I felt lost the identity with vento looks, absence of climate control was a big let off..Had looked at Cruze earlier and decided against it due to reviews around bad after sales support.. After looking around other AT diesel options, now I feel cruze is the best option available.

N.B. I have checked endy & captiva, after looking at XUV price tag, don't feel like paying 25 lakhs for it.

[mayankjha1806]

Originally Posted by ganeshram

• The Corolla has started showing signs of ageing. And it was already 4 years into production when I purchased it. So definitely a dated look.
• My loan term is coming to an end.
• Automatic - I used to be one who thought that Automatics are only for the lazybones. But 50K kms in Bangalore city and a resultant chronic left knee pain has made me think otherwise. It is not a must, but one of the top most in the wishlist.
• Petrol costs - Though the Corolla returns an average of 11 kmpl, the current fuel price hikes makes me think of a Diesel car.
• Bigger family. So a 7 seater would be a nice to have though not a must.
• Sedan or SUV - No hard preference here.

Guess what, you need an AT for the city and spacious SUV/MUV for the highways (I am assuming 6-7 folks wont need traveling in city every day). So in that aspect you could choose any AT options listed above (as you would be alone in the city drives) you could also consider a AT hatchback, and a proper SUV/MUV (Innova, Fortuner, XUV 5 Oh Oh).

The other option is to keep the Corolla, 4 years and 50K is nothing and enjoy EMI free times, buy a AT hatchback and later once the Corolla touches 70K replace it with a SUV/MUV people mover which can accommodate 7 folks.

Even i am waiting for a proper TD of XUV 5 Oh Oh as the drive that i had was not enough to decide. Even if i decide to buy the XUV i will wait at the least 5-6 months.

[Abhi_Automobile]

Originally Posted by ganeshram

Background

I currently own a Toyota Corolla 2007. Has run ~ 50K and has had no major problems. Has been a very good ownership experience so far. Extremely comfortable for my family as well. I now want to upgrade to a new machine.

Not that difficult:

Depends on what do you crave for the most: Is it VFM or Quality. Of course, one would like to have both but more often than not there may not be too many such options.

1. Quality: Jetta Highline AT
2. VFM: Cruze LTZ AT

And I agree with junta too. You are now habituated to AT driving. You may find driving big manual car too cumbersome.

[ganeshram]

Hi all,

Thanks a lot for your comments. Looks like I will end up cancelling my XUV booking soon.

- Am taking a TD of the Jetta DSG this weekend.
- I think the Laura DSG is looking a bit dated now. But still worth considering.
- Sonata - Waiting patiently. Hope they price it right.
- Captiva - I sincerely hope they go the CKD route. This will make it a mouth watering option
- Endy - I think it is too big for the city.
- Fortuner - Interiors too plain for the price.

So summing it up, it looks like Jetta vs New Captiva vs New Sonata.

Having said all this, I still feel XUV is superb VFM and makes other options look too pricey.

Waiting for more opinions. Thanks a lot for helping me out.

[dkaile]

Originally Posted by ganeshram

One thing was on the top of my mind - The new car should be as refined or if possible more refined than the Corolla.

Just for that you need to look elsewhere.

For high refinement levels and ability to carry 7 passengers in total peace of mind, you just have one perfect option - Innova. Though it lacks the AT but it will give you the refinement and peace of mind you so desire. It has a Smooth engine, nice clutch and precise gears, and that is what you want.

A new variant is coming in Jan'2012, if you can wait. Also the Fortuner AT is rumored to be coming in Jan.

[swiftnfurious]

From your post, the requirement = AT. Please don't buy a manual and regret later. Plus as @mayank.. said, 4 years or 50K kms on a Toyota is still young & unless you very much want to replace it, please don't bother selling it.

You could easily use it for couple of more years. Please have a look at the below thread if you already have not. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/owning...rade-swap.html

If you have decided to sell off the Corolla, I would suggest Jetta AT over anything since we don't have many cars that give the comfort of Corolla + the AT advantage.

My view of other Diesel AT cars: [Please note that I have NOT driven any of these cars, but read about these in this forum].

1. Volkswagen Jetta: heard good stuff on the space, lack of equipment? [My pick]

2. Hyundai Verna : The backseats lack on thigh support, feels claustrophobic

3. Chevrolet Cruze : Stiff ride, not very spacious

4. Chevrolet Captiva : Good car, a bit pricey ? New version coming soon & if they plan to make it a CKD from the current CBU status, the prices will come down.

5. Hyundai Santa Fe : Too expensive for a Hyundai badge, loaded to the gills though, slighty bouncy as well.

6. Nissan X-Trail : Too expensive & a strict 5-seater, most comfortable of the lot if I am not wrong.

7. Skoda Laura: Excellent drivers car, space at premium? & ride should be stiff. Skoda horror stories, so it's a gamble

[Axe77]

Here's my 2 cents:

1. XUV or not

I have no doubt in my mind recommending that you ditch the XUV. Coming from a Corolla, the interior fit and finish will feel a let down to you over a period of time. I drive a Civic currently. I test drove an XUV and personally, even if it is offered with an AT option, I can't imagine moving to that vehicle. VFM is not the only driver for me - I would rather spend an extra lakh and be in a vehicle that reeks of a certain quality. (Just my personal preference - no offence to others who prefer otherwise of course). For instance, if I "had to" choose only between the Innova and XUV, I would buy an Innova even though it feels simpler than the XUV on paper, purely because the interiors feel better finished than the XUV.

Secondly, if you're tired driving a Corolla petrol in Manual guise, an XUV will only exacerbate your discomfort. For all of the above, I'd recommend stick to choosing from Diesel ATs - at this segment, there are plenty of credible options.

2. The alternatives (assuming AT diesel treated as a must have)

Jetta
If you are willing to spend the moolah, I feel the Jetta AT is an excellent, perhaps even the best choice. The Q mark of course is what service quality and reliability you will get with VW. I personally find the looks extremely classy and timeless. Its a car that will look elegant even as it ages.

Laura
If you want to save a bit of money, the Laura offers the options of lower variants with an AT gearbox and the same engine. I really don't like the looks of the Laura though, in particular its following of the fad of curved up front headlights. The rear is equally uninspiring. Service an even bigger Q mark but all in all a great engine gearbox combo without doubt. Prime advantage in my mind over Jetta is really the price saving through lower variant options - can't think of anything else that swings the decision the Laura way.

Cruze
The Cruze AT is also an excellent choice at its price point although after driving the Jetta and Laura, the "slight" dip in refinement level of the Cruze engine and marginal turbo lag is noticible. Money spent is even lower so I'm mentioning this as the last option.

Captiva
Captiva AT is of course a great option but if you don't need that space no point moving around with that kind of real estate underneath. You'll enjoy the driving pleasure of the Jetta / Laura / Cruze much more than the Captiva.

Happy choosing and all the best.

[RadiantKarma]

Originally Posted by ganeshram

One thing was on the top of my mind - The new car should be as refined or if possible more refined than the Corolla. Smooth engine, nice clutch and precise gears would be the best combo.
.................................................. ................
Took a test drive a couple of days later. Was unhappy with the clutch(too hard) and the gear box. Went again with the family a week later. They liked the looks, but were of the opinion that the Corolla offered much better comfort.
.................................................. ....................
I drive in city traffic and a hard clutch would be a nightmare. Today I took my 3rd test drive. After 2 km, my left toe started paining because I was unable to rest my foot on the floor while applying the clutch.

Now I am totally confused.

Don't get confused mate. Trust your own TD experiences as you've brought out above. Don't compromise on your topmost priorities for those knick-knacks called features.

Having said all this, I still feel XUV is superb VFM and makes other options look too pricey.

IMO, a car is not VFM if it can't even offer basic essential comfort. Do identify what the true "Value" means for YOU!

Also, if XUV & Fortuner (both having manual trannies only, right?) are in consideration, why is Innova not in the list - esp. since you would prefer a comfortable 7-8 seater?

Wishing you happy decision-making!

[noopster]

ganeshram, Corolla to XUV will be a downgrade in my opinion. I wouldn't advise it.

Have you considered the Vento AT? This is my ride and believe me, I don't regret it a bit! Petrol prices may have hit the stratosphere but I saved some 6 lacs over the closest contender (Skoda Laura 2.0 CRdi DSG) so am not complaining.

It's a 6-speed AT and the car has amazing handling characteristics and loaded with nice features, though nothing extravagant. And it's pretty maintenance-free and doesn't seem to suffer from any niggles that will inevitably plague you if you go with the likes of an untested beast like the XUV.

All the best.

[Aiel]

You could wait for the Aria AT. Tata are testing it, though the release dates are not known.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...nsmission.html

I am not sure if it will satisfy the 'more refined than the Corolla' criteria.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by ganeshram

• The Corolla has started showing signs of ageing. And it was already 4 years into production when I purchased it. So definitely a dated look.
• My loan term is coming to an end.
• Automatic - I used to be one who thought that Automatics are only for the lazybones. But 50K kms in Bangalore city and a resultant chronic left knee pain has made me think otherwise. It is not a must, but one of the top most in the wishlist.
• Petrol costs - Though the Corolla returns an average of 11 kmpl, the current fuel price hikes makes me think of a Diesel car.
• Bigger family. So a 7 seater would be a nice to have though not a must.
• Sedan or SUV - No hard preference here.

My views are as under:

The Corolla is, in my opinion, one of the "evergreen" cars, across the world. However, if you are interested to replace it, it is up to you.

There are few other joys like owning an EMI free car, and the Corolla still has plenty of life left in it for you to save some money and wait for a better car.

Yes, the Corolla is slightly expensive to run since it is a petrol but the amount of money on EMIs you will save.

Yes, diesel autos are the way to go, but how much do you drive in a day? 50k kms in 4 years will not result in any significant gain monetarily since you are looking of buying an executive car in the upper segment.

In case 7 seats are not mandatory, go for a sedan. The driving pleasure of a sedan can never be matched by an SUV.