[anujmishra]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

quality of the spares, especially rubber and plastic

Others may admire but I must say if this is the reason to upgrade vehicle and take more loan, then I do not think this is wise decision.

IMHO, finding small rubber parts at Toyota will also be Herculean Task.

Originally Posted by n.devdath

However, off late, things have changed, drastically. Rubber parts have deteriorated, basic parts like clutches, suspension parts, trim parts and even things like ORVMs are often not in stock.

You cannot generalize things with any manufacturer with your few experiences. When I checked with my friend who owns Scorpio 2.6 CRDe. He never faced any problem.

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Mahindra service costs have increased manifold making Toyota and even Ford service costs.

Now a days many outside garages understand Scorpio in and out. You can find most of the spares outside at cheap rates. Many owners servicing their Scorpios outside. This will certainly cost less than M&M Service.

Originally Posted by n.devdath

The new vehicle quality too has taken a hit in the recent years (though that does not apply to Hariya) taking customer confidence down a few notches.

At least, sales figure of Scorpio does not speak same statement of yours. This may be perception of one individual's view. I find this is very generic statement and people use it for any manufacturers.

Originally Posted by n.devdath

So all in all, the only reason a Toyota Fortuner or to some, extent even a Ford Endeavor appeal to me is their build quality and robustness. For the rest, Hariya is still my trusted comrade.

I would suggest you drive your Hariya until you save enough to buy new Fortuner. Taking too much of loan for such trivial issue is not justified.

This is my personal view and no obligation for anyone to accept. I mean to say, If I were you I would not have decided to change car due to these reasons.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by satan

The Pajero SFX is officially discontinued since the past 3 weeks. Moving forward Mitsubishi will sell just the Sport which will be assembled in India. Bookings for the CKD versionn are now open.
Dealers will try to sell pending stock of SFXs or their test / R&D vehicles, which would make a good buy at a decent price.

Unfortunately there is no Mitsubishi dealer at Bangalore but just a service center and the abysmal fuel efficiency and mediocre highway performance of the SFX takes it out of the game for me

Originally Posted by anujmishra

I would suggest you drive your Hariya until you save enough to buy new Fortuner. Taking too much of loan for such trivial issue is not justified.

Which is why I m taking it slow and steady Anuj and am in no rush to upgrade.

In agreement to your statement, the feeling of having spare cash in one's account and ultra low EMIs is a very satisfying experience.

[harshaguduru]

HI,
very very interesting thread. maybe one of teh first what car threads on tbhp that i read beyond three pages.
what amazed me is the roller-coaster nature of the thread.
OP started off wanting pajero or scorpio went through phases where even a laura was considered( weird given that primary requirement was of high GC and rough roads)
then the wonderful yeti was considered and finally the train came back to the fortuner station.
in the nearly hour and half i have read this thread there were two questions that i felt werent asked( pardon me if i missed them )

a) how many people generally travel in the car with you? (i assume less than 5 because you even considered the laura)
b) how well do u take care of your vehicles.( mandatory service only/ extra love every now and then/ spend more time on car than on kids )

-->you have mentioned in a post about comfort being a factor because your better half can rest in the middle row or boot.

-->and since the usage is going to be pretty much the same as your scorpio any form of AWD would be sufficient IMHO( please correct me if i assumed wrongly)

-->and good fuel efficiency and highway manners and safety are a must.


the biggest issue with buying a new vehicle is the understanding of our needs.
i have done this mistake, so have many of my friends, family.
to quote an example we bought a diesel car for monthly run of 600km. total bad choice ( however getting better after 2 years with petrol prices so high)

anyway to stop my rambling what i am trying to say is that.
the skoda yeti seems to tick exactly all the boxes that you want.
and the interiors feel a bit more premium than the fortuner.

my friend who owns a quarry swore by his forrester for nearly 6 years. it was a brave decision at that time but paid out in leaps and bounds with miles of fun. he had similar requirements as you.and the logical step up was the Yeti that he is extremely happy with.

since you are in no shortage of time and you will be be investing a lot of your sweat and toil into this. consider the incidental risks you face over ten years of ownership.( god forbid it , but should you ever meet with an accident on the highway what would be safer for passengers and you)

fuel economy will be big factor given rising fuel prices and the fact that you shall do 1.5L km atleast( 0.1L litres(4.5l rupees@ 15kmpl, 0.15L litres nearly 7l rupees@ 10kmpl)

sorry for adding to the khichidi of confusion.

since time isnt of the essence do try extensively to TD vehicles. multiple pieces of the same model and get exactly what your heart desires.

regards
Harsha

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by harshaguduru

OP started off wanting pajero or scorpio went through phases where even a laura was considered( weird given that primary requirement was of high GC and rough roads)

The Laura was indeed considered since happy owners who use it on bad and non existent roads like Anshuman and a few people at Coorg are happy with it. I m closely tracking Anshuman's Laura and a few other cars.

Originally Posted by harshaguduru

then the wonderful yeti was considered and finally the train came back to the fortuner station.

Because there simply aren't enough options. You know what I like? A vehicle the exterior size of a Scorpio, with 2 bucket and one bench in the middle row with boot space, 4wd/AWD, a decent grunty diesel engine with a 5 speed AT, a sunroof, 16" tires, rattle free interiors and as reliable as the Sun. Sounds like the best of both worlds?

Well, it really isn't that difficult if you look at the international automotive scene.

And yes, I continue to abhor the Fortuner's ride quality and pricing. It continues to be a @#$% bumpy and expensive truck.

Originally Posted by harshaguduru

a) how many people generally travel in the car with you? (i assume less than 5 because you even considered the laura)
b) how well do u take care of your vehicles.( mandatory service only/ extra love every now and then/ spend more time on car than on kids )

a. Not more than 4 on a long journey though city journeys depend on the number of seats I have.
b. I take care of my vehicles, but not like a Parsi, if that gives you a drift.

Originally Posted by harshaguduru

-->you have mentioned in a post about comfort being a factor because your better half can rest in the middle row or boot.

-->and since the usage is going to be pretty much the same as your scorpio any form of AWD would be sufficient IMHO( please correct me if i assumed wrongly)


-->and good fuel efficiency and highway manners and safety are a must.

You are correct.

Originally Posted by harshaguduru

the skoda yeti seems to tick exactly all the boxes that you want.

Almost, except 2 things.
1. Post warranty cost of ownership.
2. The compact middle seat and the lack of road presence, which is crucial IMO when you travel to unknown areas at odd hours.

Originally Posted by harshaguduru

fuel economy will be big factor given rising fuel prices and the fact that you shall do 1.5L km atleast( 0.1L litres(4.5l rupees@ 15kmpl, 0.15L litres nearly 7l rupees@ 10kmpl)

Now you know why the Laura is so appealing

Originally Posted by harshaguduru

sorry for adding to the khichidi of confusion.

You are welcome.[/quote]

[n.devdath]

***Update***

As I had mentioned in my previous posts, I am closely following Anshuman's and a few other Lauras on the forum and now that it has come back from Leh successfully, the Skoda Laura 2.0 DSG L&K is back in the race.

Also, after looking closely at the Ford Endeavor AT 4wd closely, there is not much that actually differentiates it from the Fortuner apart from its ride quality, lack of an automatic climate control and the lack of steering mounted controls.

Also, there are seem to be a couple of pre-owned examples of the AT 4wd Endy in the market as of today so the Endy AT 4WD joins the fray and actually nudges the "manual only" Fortuner behind itself.

Boy this is a lot of confusion....

[Rahulk76]

***Shades of Grey****

Buy a second hand 2.4 AT/MT Grand Vitara.. they are going extremely cheap 6-8 lacs for 3-4 year old vehicles.

You will save enough dough over the other contenders to fuel your petrol bills for coming years and going by the threads on tbhp the reliability factor + 4x4 suits your needs.

Else Buy the Yeti .

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by Rahulk76

Buy a second hand 2.4 AT/MT Grand Vitara.. they are going extremely cheap 6-8 lacs for 3-4 year old vehicles.

You will save enough dough over the other contenders to fuel your petrol bills for coming years and going by the threads on tbhp the reliability factor + 4x4 suits your needs.

Else Buy the Yeti .

Dunno Rahul but the psychological satisfaction of filling a cheaper fuel everytime at the pump is a very satisfying factor to me.
Also, the LeT of a diesel motor is something which helps a diesel car to pull at astonishingly low rpms, especially in bad terrain conditions.

The Yeti is too small for me and one of the reasons I prefer the Laura over it is the awesome DSG box and the amazing FE that it gives.

Spending 2 million INR and stick shifting has now begun to feel strange to me. I d rather buy an AT vehicle.

[Rahulk76]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Dunno Rahul but the psychological satisfaction of filling a cheaper fuel everytime at the pump is a very satisfying factor to me.
Also, the LeT of a diesel motor is something which helps a diesel car to pull at astonishingly low rpms, especially in bad terrain conditions.

The Yeti is too small for me and one of the reasons I prefer the Laura over it is the awesome DSG box and the amazing FE that it gives.

Spending 2 million INR and stick shifting has now begun to feel strange to me. I d rather buy an AT vehicle.

I'll still say be PRACTICAL..
If you are lucky to find a good used Vitara.2.4AT at almost half the price of new one may be like this..
http://www.carwale.com/used/cardetails.aspx?car=D373116

But then, ill be closely following your thread. This is going to be interesting

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by Rahulk76

I'll still say be PRACTICAL.
But then, ill be closely following your thread. This is going to be interesting

Practical?? At TBHP? Passion and practicality do not mix.

You are most welcome to follow and post on my thread buddy.

[anandpadhye]

I would also vote for GV 2.4.

But, check out Hyundai Terracan.
It's 150 odd BHP, diesel, 4H,4L, etc and available at low price points.
Whenever I go for Tucson's service, the SA and me - both spend time admiring the Terracan, if one is around being serviced. It has logitudinal engine, dual mass flywheel...some genes of a serious 4x4. Not sure about the GC but I guessing it should be good.

Also the older GV XL-7.
2.7L v6, 180 odd BHP, 4H, 4L...has around 185mm GC but then that's same for Scorpio.

Also, older CR-V 2.4 MT/AT, Does not have low range, but has >200mm GC.

Also, Nissan X-Trail.
140 BHP, diesel, does not have low range but >200mm GC.

BTW, regarding Laura as an off-roader, well, I have one and I would not take it to Leh unless I MUST (I love my Laura and for Leh, I would prefer to take a vehicle for which road will be a non-issue). Though Laura has great build, reliability, power, torque, bad road package, underbody protection, at the end of the day, it's a car. BTW, there are threads about Lineas making it to Leh as well and Linea is also a very well built car.

EDIT: And whenever I see pictures in Leh and Laddakh related threads, invariably, there are numerous Taveras and Sumos in the background, so, from that point of view, capability of the vehicle seems less relevant for Leh :-)

Cheers!

P.S. I know there is SX4 AT with ~200 mm GC.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

I would also vote for GV 2.4.

But, check out Hyundai Terracan.
Also the older GV XL-7.
2.7L v6, 180 odd BHP, 4H, 4L...has around 185mm GC but then that's same for Scorpio.

Spares for the Terracan would be an issue since I plan to keep this vehicle for a looong time. The GV, well, like I said, I ll try to convince myself, but at the moment, I love diesels, for multiple reasons.

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

Also, Nissan X-Trail.
140 BHP, diesel, does not have low range but >200mm GC.

This is one vehicle I love and had taken a TD a few weeks ago. Frankly, I was floored but 32lac INR OTR Bangalore, Nissan's gotta be kidding me.

If I come across a single owner well maintained example at the right price, I ll look at it.

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

BTW, regarding Laura as an off-roader, well, I have one and I would not take it to Leh unless I MUST (I love my Laura and for Leh, I would prefer to take a vehicle for which road will be a non-issue). Though Laura has great build, reliability, power, torque, bad road package, underbody protection, at the end of the day, it's a car. BTW, there are threads about Lineas making it to Leh as well and Linea is also a very well built car.

EDIT: And whenever I see pictures in Leh and Laddakh related threads, invariably, there are numerous Taveras and Sumos in the background, so, from that point of view, capability of the vehicle seems less relevant for Leh :-)

I do not stay at Leh. I do not go there or to any place which has atrocious roads more than thrice a year. However, when I go there, I want to be able to drive in my own vehicle. Hence the thought of a 4WD high GC vehicle.

However, most of my friends in Coorg, HP and UK swear by their hatchbacks due to their light weight, FWD layout where the car seldom loses traction, hence the Laura came up as a prime contender.


I was at Leh last week in a Scorpio 2WD and the vehicle got miserably stuck at two places, and we were not doing any antics in it. Had it been a FWD vehicle, it would have pulled itself out.

The search continues...

[tsk1979]

You need a basic 4x4.
Why not go for a base model Scorpio 4x4?
since its cheaper than your budget, you can change after 5-6 years instead of buying a 14L vehicle and keeping for 10 years.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

You need a basic 4x4.
Why not go for a base model Scorpio 4x4?
since its cheaper than your budget, you can change after 5-6 years instead of buying a 14L vehicle and keeping for 10 years.

In today's day and age, by the time one comes to the 4x4 terrain, one generally has cruised a few thousand highway kilometers Tanveer. It is here that things like ABS, airbags and comfortable interiors come into play. The Scorpio LX 4wd is too basic a machine.

More so, Scorpio VLX 4wd owners have said this about its capabilities:

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

I went through the same thought process as you and unfortunately took the wrong decision and I regret to this day. The reason why we cant a LWD 4WD Tourer is so that we can go of the beaten path with confidence. I won't suggest the Scorpio 4WD for the following reasons.

1) Suspension Travel is extremely limited resulting in the vehicle constantly riding the bump stop. The Scorpio 4WD has only about has only about 3 inches of suspension travel with lousy OEM shocks resulting in a very bumpy ride.

2) Electric 4WD System has exposed electrical connectors and the motor is not water proof either. So god forbid you are forced to change to 4H or 4L when motor is underwater, your 4WD system will stop working and dealer doesn't know how to repair the transfer case.

3) Suspension is not strong enough for rough use. After one 4WD excursion my lower arm was bent and had to get it changed. I also have to do wheel alignment every 5000 kms.

4) Ground clearance is only 180 mm and your center diff is constantly scraping the ground.

6) I have been stranded 2 times with a failed clutch slave cylinder.

To me the most important elements of a 4WD Tourer is to have robust and comfortable suspension and reliable power train. Scorpio doesn't tick any of the boxes.

I use a 4WD SUV like it is meant to be used. I don't baby it like a passenger car and regularly travel over bad roads.

Once again, please do not waste money on a Scorpio 4WD.

Now you know why.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Dunno Rahul but the psychological satisfaction of filling a cheaper fuel everytime at the pump is a very satisfying factor to me.
Also, the LeT of a diesel motor is something which helps a diesel car to pull at astonishingly low rpms, especially in bad terrain conditions.

The Yeti is too small for me and one of the reasons I prefer the Laura over it is the awesome DSG box and the amazing FE that it gives.

Spending 2 million INR and stick shifting has now begun to feel strange to me. I d rather buy an AT vehicle.

Dev. On a recent trip to Coimbatore, then Ooty and back to Bangalore, including some city driving in Coimbatore and inside Mysore etc, my Yeti returned an average of 19 kmpl. Which I think is pretty phenomenal. What say?
In the hills, there is nothing quite like a slick shifting manual gearbox. Add to it the sheer torque, power, handling and comfort of the Yeti, and it is an endless pleasure all the way.

[drbones]

N.Devdath, a very interesting thread in recent times on team bhp from my point of view. I am in the same dilemma as you are right now.Even I an not able to decide between new Scorpio 4x4 or a used pajero ? I am thinking new Scorpio will be the best for me. A new vehicle is always a new vehicle , what ever condition the Pre owned vehicle may be .

Any way I am glued to your thread. Will watch it closely . I have ample time to decide on my buy, so no hurry for me. Just don't want to get stuck with the wrong vehicle.

All the best for your vehicle hunting .